The Johnster

Given the amount of work involved in refurbishing the current chassis, a Finecast etched chassis is certainly worth considering. It’s a long time since I did anything on this level and I would have no mean amount of trepidation about undertaking it, but the fact I’m considering it means it might happen one day!

Hornby, having produced a Grange to acceptable modern standards, are in a pretty strong position to introduce a current standards Manor based on the Grange underpinnings (assuming that the Grange mech can be made to fit inside the smaller Manor body tooling). It will be interesting to compare the Grange mech to the new 5101 mech when it arrives; this can also be potentially used under a Manor body. Similarly, the Dapol mogul and 5101 could also form the basis of a Manor mech. But my feeling is that H have had years to attempt a Manor, and have shown no interest. Neither have Bachmann, who might be expected to have a claim on the class, bothered with one to current standards. My uninformed view is that Dap are the front runners here. If if they do not produce the goods, surely there is an opening for a retrofit body kit or moulding for the Hornby Grange mech.

You may well be right, and I’ll be a’mouldering in me grave long before it happens!

For more or less the entirety of the steam era, right to the end of it, the bulk of waged labourers lived within sight of their place of work. They walked or cycled to and from it. Clerical and shop workers tended to be concentrated in city centres and commuted by suburban train, tram, or bus. Managerial types (the bowler brigade) commuted by train from whatever their city’s version of Metroland was with first class season tickets, and maybe drove to the station. Using a a car to drive to work, even if you had one, was comparatively rare unless your profession meant you had to attend clients outside normal hours, like a GP. The late 60s, coinciding with the end of steam and the expansion of the motorway network, heralded a major social change during which commuting in private cars became the usual and predominant method except for London, and including waged as opposed to salaried labour. If you were employed, you wanted a new house out of town...

Nothing I'd disagree with there, 34! But I do feel that improvement can be eventually made in these areas, perhaps with different materials not currently available, like the ballasting of locos with unobtainium... The detail between the frames on the J36 rather draws attention to itself and the fact that noting is actually happening, though. My 'thought process was informed' by the idea that a real steam locomotive driver or engineer could tell the state of a loco's the valve gear and extent of the cutoff by just looking at it as it passed by, and should ideally be able to do the same with a model even in 4mm. He should certainly IMHO be able to do it on a 7mm model that cost several hundred pounds! As the discussion is about how far RTR can be taken, I felt a flight of fancy about what might be achievable in future even if it is beyond reasonable expectation for now was justifiable. Any level of detail is possible, but not necessarily marketable!

I read the photos as showing the black plastic of the keeper plate extending to the rear of the loco, which would suggest the correct 'radial' floating axle arrangement, something similar to the Bachmann 56xx or 45xx/4575. I am no expert in such matters, but would have thought that this sort of arrangement is easier and cheaper to produce than a separate pony truck anyway, not to mention saving an assembly operation and a screw with washers, though of course the old Airfix/Hornby large prairie had a pony, as IIRC did the even older Graham Farish, probably with 13 inch radius train set curves in mind! There've been some comments about the crispness of the moulding cf the Bachmann 94xx photos, and close up it does come over as a bit 'blobby' around the bunker steps and chimney lip, but is not a bad representation overall and I will not be complaining about it. It looks enough like a 5101 to me, one of my favourites back in the day and a handsome, nicely proportioned, beast compared to the gawky 4575s. Might make a difference when it comes to buying though; we have yet to see how good or otherwise the Dapol version is. Dapol need to be encouraged as much as possible and put in a good mood IMHO so that they will, in a fit of optimism, release the diagram N auto trailer in 4mm which I want...

Thank you, Wickham; I now know more than I did before I read your post and my day is thus not wasted... My PMV is of course Bachmann, senior moment again. I actually have 2 of them, this and one in BR crimson, plus a BY and B in BR crimson and BR malachite respectively, which do come from Hornby! This is overkill for a 1950s South Wales BLT, but I like vans with the 'Ashford' roof profile and wooden bodies, as they have a lot of character, and the period is specifically chosen for maximum livery variation (1948-58). I also have 4 different liveried ventilated general goods 'Ashford' vans

Agreed, but anything bigger than a BSA Bantam would be the exception not the rule. Various mopeds of the NSU Quickly type were very common. Bicycle handlebars would be almost all the swept back 'butterfly' type. Some sports cyclists sported drop 'racing' bars, but these were by and large a middle class bunch and would not use the bikes for commuting. Anything with a straight or straight-ish mountain bike type handlebar screams modern!

My Hornby malachite green liveried PMV, which I assume is correct, is not branded XP. Malachite was introduced by Bulleid, who joined the Southern in 1937, so the livery cannot pre-date that year, but does not mean that XP branding was not introduced between then and nationalisation. Wartime would presumably have meant that the vans were used on off-Southern traffic more frequently (of course, as everyone knows, they'd permeated the entire BR network by about 3 minutes past midnight on 1st January 1948!), which may have had a bearing on this. The Southern, with a tradition of ferry mails and parcels traffic and the fast West Country freights, was probably where the blurring of a distinction between freight and NPCC stock was most pronounced. Trains of PMVs, what I think of as parcels traffic, ran with Queen Mary bogie freight brake vans, as did the Southern's milk trains, and what I would think of as fast freight ran with BY vans. An XP branding is not in itself a reliable indicator; all it means is that a vehicle is permitted to run in the formation of a train with passenger rated stock. It has automatic brakes, screw couplings, and hydraulic buffers, but may well be a general merchandise goods vehicle.

If I remember my stratigraphy correctly, the Ikeatous followed the Habitatian, didn't it? The Habitatian was when the plunger operated revolving ashtrays on stands roamed the earth, and marked the appearance of the stainless steel pedal bin species...

No. it was last week not April Fool's, and in light of your information I am glad I qualified what was an assumption on my part when I saw the thing with the use of the word 'apparently'; I've caught myself out this way before! Non working inside motion, which will be visible from the angles I mentioned but not moving when the loco moves, is IMHO a very gad idea; there's no point whatsoever in having it if you can't see it moving correctly, especially when it's been highlighted in red paint. It's about the equivalent of having static outside motion. This is a retrograde step and very unwelcome; I'm glad the new Bachmann 94xx will not be disfigured in this way! Working posable reversing rods and valve settings could be done with DCC locos, though, and possibly with DC using some sort of feedback sensors, and would add a layer of realism

Saw the new Hornby J36 t’other day, which apparently has working inside motion and comes in at around £150. This seems to me not in the least gimmicky, but a genuine and highly desirable advance in RTR standards. It is, I suspect, the Next Big Thing in steam outline models; even outside cylinder locos have plenty going on between the frames which is viewable and apparent from most modelling viewpoints, typically looking down at an angle at the action. My my view is that there is a standard of realism that mass produced volume RTR can be expected to deliver, and that we are not far short of it, but not quite there yet! Lights and sound, DCC territory, can be an enhancement if they are done well, but often aren’t, at which point they descend rapidly into gimmickry. Non steam outline seems better served in this regard; steam locos did not make a standard white noise panting dog sound in all (or any) circumstances! Room for improvement would include, IMHO, less moulded bogie and spring detail on non-steam outline models, lights that are in general not anything like as ridiculously bright, a system of removable and poseable working headcode lights and tail lights for steam locos and brake vans, between frame details as already mentioned, headcode panels for 60s and 70s locos that can be correctly set and backlit. A working diesel exhaust fumes generator based on Suethe technology should be easily achievable, as should a basic working brake on brake vans to hold stock on gradients This is brings us to the Big Ask; realistic and believable steam and smoke effects for steam locos. Has to respond to how hard the operator wants the loco to appear to be working, which is not the same thing as feeding back from the actual load on the motor, and be safe to use in an enclosed domestic environment, and not make a mess! Any takers; I’m not holding my breath, but this is the one aspect of steam operation that we have to rely most on our imaginations to supply!

Rhymney Approach was in fact originally the road acccess to Crockherbtown, the Rhymney’s passenger terminus in Cardiff, replaced post-grouping by extending Queen Street. It was not a terminus in the buffer stop sense, as the line continued across Newport Road on an overbridge to access the docks. Crockerbtown was also the passenger terminus for the Cardiff Railway, which had running powers for it’s railmotor service to Rhydfelin over the Rhymney as far as Heath Jc; this is now the Coryton Branch. Working as a Valleys Link passenger guard at Canton back in the 70s, on a Coryton-Bute Road shuttle, a little old lady of the particularly sweet and genteel sort boarded at Rhiwbina, a suburb where these sorts were not uncommon, and asked me for a return to Crockherbtown. Taken aback for no more than a second, I printed up a Queen Street return on the Setrite and explained that we were going to arrive at the Taff Vale station. She seemed quite happy with this, as ‘it’s that little bit nearer the shops, isn’t it, and I shan’t have to cross the road with those trams’. Made my day, love her! There was another BRSA near the street entrance to Long Dyke yard on Sanquhar Street.

This is very good news if it means a release is imminent. I am more or less obligated to buy one after all the fuss I've made here, and it looks like a lovely little model. £125 will be the single highest price I've ever paid for any model railway item, but I was expecting it to be next year and to have to bear another price rise (this may happen yet of course!). It should, in theory, be the last loco I buy but a 5101 at the right price is going to test my resolve and I am not even convinced myself by this rhetoric. My Limbach will be retired on the new loco's acquisition, and the chassis might well find it's way beneath another 57xx body if 'Bay can come up with the goods, this time with the top feed removed. I'm not unhappy with my Limbach, which runs well and looks tolerably like a 94xx, but the new loco will run rings around it. It's main drawback is the plate over the cylinders below the smokebox, which identifies it as one of the initial 10 GW built locos with higher boiler pressure. None of these was ever allocated to Tondu, and my chosen prototype, 8448 because it spent it's entire short working life at the shed, has the more common 'BR production series' arrangement of no plate and the tops of the cylinders visible between the plate frames above the footplate. This would be a difficult piece of butchery to perform on an already weakened Lima body, and I have shamelessly bottled out of it, but I'll never be really happy with the loco if I know a better alternative is available. If you need an excuse to buy yourself one of the new Bachmann's, feel free to quote the above paragraph and blame me!

Thanks for the advice, Ian; I'll check our where Coop are attending and try to be there myself.

I recommend hot rum and blackcurrant. Use cheapo rum as you'll be mixing it, not Mount Gay. It won't make you feel any better, but after a few you won't care any more...

A fiddle yard represents the rest of British Railways, thus must ideally be big enough to contain any stock that could possibly appear on the layout during the set period, i.e. a few hundred thousand freight and pool NPCCS vehicles. Trust me, Clive, there is no such thing as a fiddle yard that is too big, though you are correct that most of us have too much stock and far too many locomotives! I have the problem that, having determined my ideal stock levels at the planning stage and kept fairly close to them, I still don't have enough room in my fiddle yard. This is because, if truth be told, I don't have enough room for a layout and have compromised. I don't like handling stock and would like enough fiddle yard for it all to remain on the rails at all times, but crane shunts are necessary to maintain the timetable.

NPCCS sort of blurs the boundary between passenger and freight stock and different railways treated them in different ways. The Southern's 4 wheel PMV, CCT, and BY vans did not carry XP branding in Southern livery, but were so branded by BR. It's one of those situation where the rule is A until it becomes B... This is of course part of the fascination of NPCCS in the first place. It doesn't matter much to me which shop classifies them as which category, as I'm reasonably familiar with their use and operation on the real railway, but might misguide some people. Typing the word 'category' reminds of a friend's little girl some years ago (she's a teenager now!). Cute as buttons and about 3 years old, and I asked her what was going to happen to the family cat when they went on holiday, already having been tasked with looking in and feeding it daily. She considered this for a few seconds, then her face lit up and she came out with 'I expect it will go into a category', the sort of logic that is beyond argument and an utter joy!!!

IIRC (and I'm a little younger than you, Ian, so the C in that is important) they were allocated to Barry, Cathays, Rhymney, and Merthyr so far as Cardiff Valleys were concerned. They worked to Treherbert, and I have seen a photo of one working in the Afan Valley, presumably a Treherbert-Swansea working, perhaps a Dyffryn Yard loco. Many of the late 41xx series, the last built, were allocated to South Wales sheds, some to the Newport Valleys and the main line sheds, in replacement for withdrawn TVR As and Rhymney Ps that had been 'Swindonised' by the GW. When the 82xxx were built, at Swindon (they use a domed version of the Swindon standard no.2 boiler), they were allocated in continuance of this practice. They were considered by Barry drivers I spoke to in the 70s to have more 'range' than the 56xx on account of the larger driving wheels; they needed less topping up of the tanks which was useful on the longer Barry turns such as Clarence Road-Bridgend via Sully. They were capable of better speeds as well. I have no idea why they might have been thought unsuitable for the Rhondda Valleys, as they had no problem with Merthyr, steeper and more curved. The traffic on the Rhondda Fach Maerdy Branch probably did not warrant them. Tondu had one on the books from 1946 to 1948 (4145, brand new to the shed) which I assume was a reserve to 3100 which was the regular loco for the Porthcawl-Cardiff commuter train, and the class returned to the shed in later years. Post dmus, 1958, they were ousted from the regular passenger work in the Cardiff and Newport valleys and found employment on transfer freights and excursions right up to the end of steam in the area; their 'replacement' 82xxx were transferred away when the dmus arrived. Severn Tunnel used them on the Pilning car ferry as well as assisting freights through the Tunnel, and one could achieve a fair turn of speed on the downhill run with these trains! Often thought Pilning HL was a very modellable station...

Probably because they are XP branded and hence capable of running in freight trains. Some NPCCS is numbered in the coaching stock lists (BG, GUV) and does not require XP branding.

I use a spot of cyano, and if any shows around the feet conceal it with matt varnish.

Hmm. I'd say the 'modal share' was highest in urban and industrial areas, and a bit lower in rural environments, but there were a lot of bicycles around in those days for sure.

Fortunately there are 2 new 5101s in the pipeline that should close the gap a bit, Keith. I've seen photos of 56xx working with them in the Birmingham area as well, but 5101s would be the go to. In South Wales the Taff A and Rhymney P got a look in with similar coaches but in 5 coach sets, as well as 56xx of course, and BR Standard 3MT tanks in the early 50s.

A strategic reserve of Mars Bars! Probably makes more sense than greased up 9Fs...

Cadoxton, named for St Cadoc who was a dark age saint from South Wales, does not have to be directly associated with the Barry area of course, as there is another Cadoxton near Neath, and much closer to Port Talbot. The backscene cannot possibly be Port Talbot of course as the sun is shining and you can see the sky. Birdport is interesting, a converted dry dock directly off the Usk with a gantry crane for unloading the ships. It would make a very good model for something based on the current era East Usk Branch.