The Johnster

No argument there, Craig. That shot will be a guidance for the balance weights on 1730, which'll be a crude 00 compromise in comparison to this lovely very well made and finished Martin Finney loco.

Pretty much any small spring that can a) fit through the hole in the chassis and b) over the pin, and is c) long enough, will do the job, though you may have to trim it too length. Old VCRs, cassette players and the like are a good source of small springs and can often be found in skips. The Airfix 14xx chassis is regarded as a failure nowadays but was a very advanced and brave thing when it was introduced. Constant velocity universal joints in the drive train, sprung plunger ball bearing pickups; it was a ground breaker in it's day. It has a poor reputation because of trouble with the sprung plunger pickups, which got dirty and seized up, but, it if worked, it was a very smooth and controllable little runner. It wouldn't cut the mustard nowadays; we'd want full cab detail, but it's DNA survives as a Hornby Railroad version with a different chassis and motor but the same body tooling. If you get really stuck for a source of springs, the original locos are often knocked out cheap as non runners on 'Bay.

Yes, thanks for the thought though Dave. I've had stuff from them before, including a pair of Dean 8'6" for working up an old Triang Clerestory which never got used and are still in the odds and ends box. They don't do fishbellies; so far as I can tell nobody does except I can get them from Stafford Road/Shapeways. This is perhaps surprising as they were used on a good variety of GW stock during the Churchward era. I am assuming, because it seems likely, that their use under auto trailers rebuilt in the 20s and 30s from steam railmotors stems from their original use under the passenger ends of the railmotors. It would make sense for some bogies to be pinched off railmotors just arrived at Swindon to go under the new luggage compartment end of trailers ready to go into service, which also explains why some A31s went into service with Collett 7' bogies, but I am reluctant to state this to be a fact. One A31, 204, had American pattern bogies which are what are supplied with the K's kit, but the kit has the Gloucester RCW double passenger doors inherited from the railmotor and not the Swindon single door, so is thus incorrect. Whatever A31 you model from the K's kit, you need new bogies unless you model 204 and alter the passenger doors. Lewis has lists of what bogies were used on which A31, and whether double or single doors featured. My trailer is finished as 211, and is incorrect as this trailer had Collett bogies and a Swindon single door.

Well, looking at that confirms that it's an improvement on the one I've got, a solid mazak lump. and I'm fairly sure I can make it up once it's screwed, even with my soldering! There's hope for 1730 yet! I like the cab on your model, but mine will be a half cab with the canvas weather sheet in position. I did this years ago on an Airfix Dean Goods, and was quite pleased with myself; it drew some favourable comment at shows! Thanks LaScala, I've seen the gw website 2721 Bachmann chassis conversion, but I'm not at all sure the easy way out is a Bachmann chassis; I've measured one up for a Hornby 2721 which is not too different from an 1854; a good deal of surgery in the form of removing plastic from the inside of the 'skirts' is needed to clear the can motor, and the worm intrudes into the cab at the bottom of the firebox backhead. The 2721 runs fairly well with it's original Hornby generic Jinty chassis, which at least has wheels that align with the splashers even it they are wrong, and I've learned to love it... This worm intrusion into the cab is not acceptable IMHO on a half cab, where this area is very visible even with the canvas weather sheet over it. On top of that, the fishbelly coupling rods of the Bachmann panniers, correct for those models, are not correct for an 1854, which had either plain or fluted parallel rods. I am pretty convinced that a new Finecast chassis is the way to go with this loco.

Yeah, you did. Lofty, and I went to Shapeways website. Couldn't find anything there that mentioned Stafford Road Models, or any model railway content come to that; gave up too easily. Great Bear has put me on the right track, and I'm grateful to both of you but we're not out of the woods yet...

I am fairly committed to British practice steam era modelling for my own enjoyment, but not blind to the skill of other disciplines or the visual attraction of them. The OP operates a Chinese steam/diesel exhibition layout which I consider in the top ten most visually interesting layouts on the circuit, featuring the only example of DCC steam sound that I find even remotely convincing. I don't have to be among the cognesiti of Sino-Ferroequinology to enjoy it!

I've seen 'Gordon' on the Severn Valley behaving similarly with no more than a bit of dew on the rail on an otherwise fine and dry sunny summer morning. Pacifics of all sorts were notorious for poor adhesion on starting, as the adhesive weight on the drivers is relieved by the trailing wheels that allow the loco to have a wide firebox, and this may well account for the sliding, though any loco will pick up and slide on a greasy rail. On top of all that, maybe our drivers are a bit heavy handed; they weren't all as good as some of them thought they were...

X meant excursion in those days, later replaced by Z for a special working not in the WTT. As we are talking about Gloucester, presumably Central, and 2 locos are involved, a working from Cheltenham reversing direction to continue to Swindon via Sapperton and probably up line from Swindon suggests itself, but I would be reluctant to commit myself to that idea; it's only a possibility. We might be talking about a through working from the South Wales direction with a booked loco replacement or a loco failure. The '1' denotes an express passenger train, but not necessarily for Paddington, could be going anywhere. Under normal circumstances the destination is denoted by the second character letter, X for excursion in this case, and the running number, 63, follows. Is this a bank holiday?

Great Bear, you may have saved W 207 W's bacon at the last minute US Cavalry style! That's a nice looking bogie. Decision deferred pending investigation of Stafford Road Models, and if the bogies include t/l couplings as in the photo...

Glad to hear that the lurgy is in reverse advance, or 'consolidation' as I believe the US army calls it when they are being routed by some 3rd world communist or other. Have a good rest of the show, bwtti bach!

As with the Manor, both Hornby and Bachmann gave chassis/mechs for GW outside cylinder 6 coupled locos whose wheelbase and spacing are suitable for the Saint, actually the progenitor of all these classes; large prairie, mogul, Hall, Grange, Manor. The Hall and Grange share a boiler with the Saint, and the cylinder block is common to all these classes. Not it quite as straightforward as knocking a loco together out of standard and already produced existing parts, of course; different driving wheel diameters meant that the ‘set’ of the boiler in the frames was different between Saint, Hall, and Grange, and the existing chassis blocks need to be modified even if other components can be used. But both Hornby and Bachmann, and to some extent Dapol, are in a fairly strong position if they wanted to produce a Saint. But would they want to? Don’t ask me, I don’t claim to understand the market or be able to predict what can be sold profitably. Arguments against the Saint are that there are already a lot of GW 4-6-0s out there, and there were a lot of variations to cater for in a relatively small class. A Saint is in many ways a secondary main line loco that lacks the glamour of the co-existent Stars. Arguments for are that it is a seminal GW loco that was very influential to future mixed traffic practice on the GW and LMS; the first Hall was rebuilt from one. And the new build will attract a lot of attention.

Wiz are at Bristol, but I don't really want to schlep over there unless I have to, as I'm scared of picking up too much in the way of booty when I've got plenty to do here! But neither Wiz nor Dart apparently do fishbellies or auto trailer buffers. If I'm going to command Mr Franks to make buffers for me, which would be very nice of him, I wonder if I can command him to have a go at at least cosmetic sides for fishbellies... Commanding people to do things for me is not a natural thing for me to do (born peasant stock here, I have a cunning plan, my lord), but I'm sure I'll pick up the basics easily enough. Chinless wonders do it all the time and they're thick as two short planks.

I'd rather lick the goalies, but I've been watching ladies' football over the part this avo...

Good idea!

Near my home in Cardiff was Crwys Coal Storage yard, the back roads of which were used for storing withdrawn wagons awaiting disposal until about 1960; I can recall seeing such 'ghost' liveries here, though not in traffic. My memory is fairly clear from about 1958, when I was 6. When the the sidings were removed a decade or so later for a housing development, it released a plague of rats into the surrounding areas. Cherry Orchard sidings, also on the Rhymney and just the Cardiff side of Caerphilly tunnel, were also used for this. Storage of withdrawn wagons, I mean, although the rats were no doubt a feature there, too. The usual livery for wooden 7 plank XPO wagons in the 50s was heavily weathered coal dust finished off with general crud, and the decrepitude was remarkable. You could see the sides wobbling and warping as the wagons moved, and total collapse always seemed imminent; they held together, though, probably because they were too mucky to fall apart! Replaced planks and missing planks that had not been replaced were common, especially but not exclusively top planks. Bottom ones got wet (coal was soaking from the washeries when it was loaded) and rotted out, whereas the top ones just got smashed off by the loading machinery and the hoists at the docks. The replacement planks could just as easily have been pinched off another wagon to keep a loaded vehicle in traffic as new wood, so 'hybrid' liveries could be seen. Despite this, they probably lasted better than the steel replacements, which were rust prone. Water coming off wet coal is actually dilute sulphuric acid, and highly corrosive.

Coopercraft are not listed at Bristol. so this is becoming a bit of a problem as I am becoming disheartened about them. I will not make a decision today, but a coach with fishbelly bogies is looking increasingly unlikely. I want a Gloucester double doored coach, as my existing trailers have examples of the Swindon type door, and would like to increase the biodiversity of my bogies by using fishbellies or Americans. But only 204 had Americans and this had a Swindon single door. The Gloucester trailers seem to have been divided between fishbellies and 7' Collett bogies, so a Newport Division trailer with 7' Collett bogies and a late withdrawal date suggests itself. I'd also like a coach with plated toplights, but can't find photographic or even written confirmation of a Gloucester one with Collett 7' bogies; Lewis does not list toplight plating. The best I can do from Lewis is number W 209; toplights not plated, Gloucester type double doors, Collett 7' bogies, and early 1948 chocolate and cream livery with W prefix to number on left hand end of coach side, i.e. the GW position, photographed at Newport Godfrey Road from the station on a fine, possibly winter's, afternoon. The paintwork is faded and dirty, and the date is probably 1950 or maybe 51. W 209 was withdrawn in August 57, and may well have received crimson livery as W 209 W, the number going to the right hand end of the side in the normal BR position, but I can't confirm this and will, if I take this option, model it as in the Lewis photo. It is extremely unlikely to have ever been painted in plain maroon post 1956 livery. This would require the removal of the Milliput plating I've put over the toplights, but this is not a major operation. On the plus side, I have the bogies to hand, and can crack on with the work, though I have still not sourced buffers. I won't even have to repaint the coach, the exterior of which is not in a bad state, though removal of the numbers and replacement with BR Sans Gill will be necessary, along with some fairly stringent weathering. The roof in the Lewis photo (attributed to D.M. Lee) is very similar in shade to the K's plastic roof, which will only need a squirt of matt varnish. This is now officially plan B, and plan A is dependent on being able to find fishbelly bogies. B is looking stronger and A weaker by the minute, especially as I am keen to crack on with this project and not lose momentum. I have a definite feeling of time running out for option A W207 W unless I can find fishbellies. So as to avoid more faffing and indecision (this is Johnster's A31, not Brexit) I will make a decision tomorrow and stick to it hell or high water. But the smart money has to be on W 209!

There would have been a good number of what had originally been PO wagons on the GC section up to the early 60s, wooden bodied 7 plank minerals, but the PO liveries would be painted over in BR grey, and the wagons renumbered in the BR ‘P’ series. Any surviving previous livery, and I’m not saying there were none, would be indistinguishable beneath the filth.

Specially cleaned for it’s final duty, a Tidal Sidings-Morton Cutting freight, after which it ran light to Swindon for disposal/scrap. This was 1950 and the loco, with drop frames at the front and original straight at the cab end, was in G W R initials unlined black austerity livery, but with a BR smokebox number plate an 86C Canton shed plate. I think the name and number plates were red backed.

Thanks for the sourcing advice, chaps. Dave Franks' site does not mention GW buffers of any sort, not as yet at least, but I'll be keeping an eye as his stuff looks to be very good quality. Shapeways are a bit harder to fathom; I was expecting a site with a list of items they could supply, but they seem to want a drawing to upload and then they'll print it for you. Sounds expensive; do they do one offs? I have no access to such a drawing or CAD anyway. I have done nothing irreversible to the coach yet, but am having yet another rethink about prototype given the bogie problem. First, I'll attempt to track Coopercraft down at a show (maybe they'll be at Bristol?) but even that is contingent on them having the fishbellies in stock on the stand and they don't sound as if they are reliable to ask beforehand on the phone, if he answers his phone that is! The alternative is one of the Newport Division photo-ed in Lewis Gloucesters with 7' Collett bogies or to rebuild the coach as 204 with the Americans, a fair bit of door surgery, but at least I have alternatives and can continue for now with the floor and interior. As for buffers, if the worst comes to the worst I'll get an old Airfix A28/30 off 'Bay and chop the plastic buffers off that. I'm sure I've seen cast whitemetal ones somewhere, but of course I can't for the life of me remember where!

The GW had been in the habit of painting auto trailers in it's best main line liveries and BR (W) continued with this; crimson and cream was applied between 1948 and 1950 when the vehicles should have been being turned out in plain crimson (not maroon as stated in Lewis). Apparently Riddles, no less, noticed one at Paddington and demanded to know what the .... was going on as crimson/cream was his livery for main line gangwayed coaches only; the practice was thence discontinued, no doubt amongst seditious mutterings in the paint shop at Swindon... I have not seen any photographic evidence of any A31 in crimson/cream BR livery, though there is one in Lewis of an example in early 1948 chocolate/cream. AFAIK none ever received unlined 1956 maroon BR livery, and all were withdrawn before the introduction of lined maroon for all stock in 1958.

Thanks for the encouragement, Lofty; i've got it fixed in the ruins of what was once, they tell me, a fine instrument, my seldom used brain, that Finecast stuff is 'hard' and a for 'real' modellers. A fold up chassis should (famous last words) be within my capacity! So, this thread, when it eventually gets properly under way, will be a chronicle of the building of such a chassis, a slight change in intent...

£32 for the Southeastern etched chassis kit, which I assume is basically the fold up brass chassis and some top hat bearings, along with the brakes and rodding; within my pocket without too much of a push. I already have a working motor and gearbox, and can presumably re-use the Romford axles as well, so would guess wheels are all that are needed to complete assuming that the coupling rods are included in the kit. This is beginning to look more and more like the sensible way to go with this project, but will probably mean a delay while I complete the A31 auto trailer which, to be honest, the layout is more in need of. That done, I can order the chassis kit and start building it; wheels may need a little research and I won't be rushing the job so it could still be a good bit of time before 1730 turns a wheel in anger, or even so much as a fit of pique... I'm moderately confident of my ability to build it, as I've successfully previously built a fold up chassis, nickel silver for a Westward 64xx. That practically fell together, even with my clumsy sausage fingers. It is sort of a shame to scrap the old chassis, but it's a bit far gone especially with a wheel loose and rather bent coupling rods, and the extra detail of the new kit will be worth having.

Not quite; they had the old Airfix large prairie in various guises for some time, while they've never had a Manor. It was unlikely they'd produce a new 5101 while they thought the old one had any mileage left in it, and I'm mildly, though not unpleasantly, surprised that they are going for one now; I'd have been less surprised to see the Airfix version reprised as a Railroad item. They have within the last year been quite happy to re-release the old Airfix auto trailer warhorse, and have even revisited Lord of the Isles and the shorty clerestories, admittedly promoting these as 'retro' models. The clerestories will sell solidly because the panelling is very good on them, and they scrub up fairly well with a bit of work, but are actually very crude things of a standard which would not be even close to acceptable on a new tooling. Hence my pleasant surprise at the new 5101. My surprise at the Collett Suburbans was even greater and more pleasant; did not see those coming, but glad when they arrived! But you could have the last laugh on this yet, Hilux, and they may still surprise us next year!

That makes sense. I lived (still do) in Cardiff, where the domestic coal was from the South Wales Valleys, and could not have been radically chemically different from the Aberdare steam coal favoured by the GW for locomotive use, but the point is still very much a valid one. I am not expert in such matters, but I do know that different pits produced different types of coal, and some pits' coal differed between seams. Coal for export was usually a mix from different pits tipped into the ships' holds specified by the order to the chemical specification of the customer; steelworks coking coal for Bilbao would be different to that for Buenos Aires gasworks or ship bunkering coal for Aden. Sulphur and calorific content was varied and important to the customers. The mix was made up by shunting wagons from different pits on to the tipping hoists, a complex operation as the coal had to be available when the ship was ready to receive it. Shipowners did not like paying port charges and wanted their vessels back out to sea earning money and not spending it as quickly as possible, and berth space at the hoists was seldom easily available and had to be booked. Coal isn't just black rocks, you know, so it's ash cannot be all just the same, either.

Was not it a source of potassium, potash? Our domestic coal fire ash when I was a kid was collected (don’t ask me how often) by ‘the ashman’ in the ash cart, I think for this purpose, and mother used to put it in the compost heap as well.