Wagonmaster

I have almost completed my representation of PWM1650. As you might recall, this is one of two 20/28hp Plate Framed loco's, the other being PWM1622. I have opted to paint it in just a plain dark green, similar to the factory finish/plant machinery colour. Not sure whether to number it or not? Did it carry its number? If it did, it's probably too small for me to apply properly anyway! It is a fully working model and can actually pull nine Hudson skips! That is a lot more than it will be needed to pull. I still need to fit a driver figure, preferably in white metal to add just a little extra weight.

Yes, so do I!

Be interesting to know what these 'minor errors' are. Nose grilles perhaps?

Interesting, I thought it might have Irish broad gauge at first! I model CIÉ in 4mm scale, so 21mm gauge track. Be Interesting to see how you get on with 2mm VR. BTW, I think GWR broad gauge was 7ft. 0 1/4in.

Thank you very much, pleased you like it. The lining is from Fox Transfers. I can't remember which sheet it was now, but it is one intended for LMS carriages. It maybe FRH4211, but if you have a look, you'll find it.

Now I did wonder that myself, but my memory says it's a lighter shade. I did read somewhere that they were refurbished and sold to LT by Thomas Hill who just painted them green. All LT did apparently, was to add their gold underlined logo and numbers. How true that is I don't know.

I have been after a 0-6-0DH Sentinel for sometime, but have held off the old Knightwing kit and Judith Edge kit in the hope Hornby would produce one, which they have. However, needless to say, they haven't made the version I was after. I have ordered the green Stanton one in the hope of re-painting it to represent one of the London Transport locos. I remember seeing these at Lillie Bridge and Neasden. They were an odd shade of green, so does anyone have a suggestion as to what colour to use? I'm probably going to need some 'Sentinel' and 'powered by Rolls Royce' transfers. Are these available? Has anyone else tried this yet?

The Class 323 bogies are slightly different. However, with the lack of the correct ones, as you say, who is going to notice too much? The ones you have are a bit 'thick' and do need slimming down. I had to do that for some of his Class 442 sideframes. Also I found the thickness can vary from one sideframe to another, different moulds? Good to hear of some progress, looking forward to some pictures in due course.

Thanks very much for that. I looked several times at Fox Transfers and have completely missed them! So it's called the eye logo then. Perhaps that's why I couldn't find them anywhere. They would seem to be about right, but I'll have measure the doors later. Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.

I am looking for some LNER Lozenge logo type transfers, preferably in 4mm scale. I have scoured various retailers lists and the web, but haven't yet found any! The type I'm looking for have LNER in a flattened pointed rugby ball shape outline. I think it's called a lozenge logo? I could do with them in yellow, as fitted to the doors of LNER No.6000, the EM1 prototype Woodhead electric locomotive, aka 'Tommy '. I would be very grateful if anyone could let me know where I might be able to get some from. Thanks

Thanks for that Ruston. These two had the BR numbers PWM1779 and PWM1780 later in their career. I'm more interested in their BR career as that way I could use them on my layout. What I'm trying to find out is are there any photographs of these locos? Also what livery did they have and did they actually carry the numbers? These 2ft. gauge departmentals seem particularly elusive!

That was my reasoning too. If any new information comes to light, I guess I can always repaint it! The only ones I know where different were the two Rustons at Chesterton Junction, which were yellow. I suppose if these Simplex PWM's were at Hayes, they might have looked a bit dark brown/black after being near creosote. The only other thing I wasn't sure about was if there were any modifications to the buffing gear as per other creosote works locos? Glad you like the avatar. One of my favourite industrials and have spent many a happy hour riding in them around the bogs!

Good to see some progress. Did you ever sort out any etched window frames for the Class 323's? Guess the same goes for bogie sideframes and underframe detail. Mine are still lurking behind other projects, must get on with them!

Good point. A standard p&m colour might have been used, however I'm in the British Railways period. I don't know if that would make difference? The Ruston PWM650 series was in BR Green. I would still tend to think they would have been in the colour Motor Rail painted them, but would really like some confirmation on that. ED10, also on the workbench, was in Ruston lined green for instance.

It's great to get such a response to my request, but I think we have digressed a bit. I was really looking for information on the 2ft. narrow gauge Motor Rails the GWR bought that ultimately ended up with BR and allocated PWM numbers. A few text references to them, but as yet I haven't come across any photographs of them or any livery details. It is really this that I am after to help me finish off a model I have.

Thanks for the photograph and informative comments. Nice model by the way! Impetus also did 4mm versions too, but sadly they had stopped before I was able to buy one. I was sort of hoping some budding 3D CAD designer might do a 3D print of one at some stage.

Good! It seems that our various sources agree. I have sent you a PM

A bit more on No.26. It was built in 1927 as Lot No.250 works number 4178. It was allocated to Didcot Provender Stores. My notes suggest only No.15 had the cast brass number plate. The others had painted numbers.

I might have drawings. If I do it will be the ones in the history of Motor Rail book. They will be of standard factory spec. locos. I can have a look later. Another Motor Rail I didn't mention was No.14. This was bought by the GWR sometime before 1921. It didn't last long with them before it disappeared. It doesn't appear on the Simplex Works list, so it's thought to be an ex-WDLR bow frame type. No details for what or where it was used, or where it went to.

Thanks for that Mike, but I was really on about the 2ft. gauge Motor Rails. However, interesting photo of No.26. It does look a bit green. I always thought they were black. Are we sure it's not a faded black? Some of these carried cast brass number plates and it could have been already removed.

Thanks for your reply Mike. I can flesh this out a bit with the following. 22 became PWM1780 and 25 became PWM1779. Works numbers would indicate a 20hp loco. W/N 7139 became PWM1622 and w/n 7177 became PWM1650. Works numbers indicate a 20/28hp plate frame type. Your RCTS references would seem to confirm standard unmodified locomotives. Pity they don't mention any livery details. I'm guessing they were carrying the same green paint they left Bedford in. Not sure if they actually carried any numbers? Photographs would be very useful! Incidentally, there was another PWM loco, PWM1024. This was an 18in. gauge Lister (Rail Truck?). This also reported as being at Hayes for a while. Any more info most welcome.

I have been trying to research into some of the ex-GWR Simplex (Motor Rail) locos. Specifically the 20/28hp plate frame versions that ended up with BR and allocated numbers in the PWM series. Some of these worked at Hayes Sleeper Depot amongst other places. Does anyone have any photographs of these locos at all? Any information such as livery or if the numbers were carried and where would be very useful. I am assuming they are a standard 20/28hp product without any modifications or additions, such as cabs. I have a OO9 gauge 20/28hp in primer with the intention of finishing it off as one of these PWM locos. Any help gratefully appreciated.

Thanks for that Michael. Hadn't noticed it before. I could only see the inner wheels in the photo. Yes, the EE1 was similar but with trifurcated spokes if I remember correctly.

Another little point I noticed with the Fell are the driving wheels. The real thing had bifurcated spokes, or at least on a photograph I have whilst it was under construction! I'm guessing the KR model doesn't feature these, not that they are very noticeable once the wheels are obscured by the outside frames etc!

Great find! The Alexander kit is very well cast and goes together with minimal fuss, as with all his kits. You probably saw my post with a photo of the one I built. I used two Tenshodo SPUD's and of course the bogie centres are therefore correct. So a few options there for you. Keep us posted on how you get on!