Wagonmaster

Oddly enough, I am a member of the French Railways Society! I think the Great Western Railway was particularly obsessed with signalling with virtually a signal for every move. Did many other companies have Backing Up, or Shunt Ahead signals? Other companies seemed to be a bit more restained. The Heritage Railway case is slightly different I feel as it gives signalling enthusiasts an opportunity to install and operate a wide variety of signals that may not have been originally installed. I think this is where my uncertainty with French signalling comes from as my other layout is a fully signalled ex-GWR layout!

Thanks for that David, interesting thread and good to see how the French model their railways. I find it ironic that even the French struggle with their signalling! I have set up a test rig to see if I can control and display the aspects correctly. None of the options in JMRI seemed to work correctly with my equipment (turnout controlled etc.). So I came up with another way that seems to work. I have populated a bit of stripboard with LED's representing a 4 aspect sugnal. Yhis is connected to a MERG Steady State Accessory dcc decoder (acc5). I've configured it to dual address mode so I have eight switchable outputs. The signals on the panel are virtual signals and a short bit of LogixNG looks at the virtual signal aspect and switches the decoder outputs accordingly. There are probably other ways of doing it, but I had the decoders left over from a previous project and it seemed sense to use them.

Thanks for that David, interesting thread and good to see how the French model their railways. I find it ironic that even the French struggle with their signalling! I have set up a test rig to see if I can control and display the aspects correctly. None of the options in JMRI seemed to work correctly with my equipment (turnout controlled etc.). So I came up with another way that seems to work. I have populated a bit of stripboard with LED's representing a 4 aspect sugnal. This is connected to a MERG Steady State Accessory dcc decoder (acc5). I've configured it to dual address mode so I have eight switchable outputs. The signals on the panel are virtual signals and a short bit of LogixNG looks at the virtual signal aspect and switches the decoder outputs accordingly. There are probably other ways of doing it, but I had the decoders left over from a previous project and it seemed sense to use them.

Thanks for your reply Nigel. That sounds a very complicated, but impressive system! Thanks for explaining for me, it is an area I haven’t looked at. However, it sounds a bit overly complicated for what I want to do. I just have one reader on the exit of the fiddle yard and would like to read the tag of any loco, railcar etc. that goes onto the 'mainline'. JMRI's block tracking would then pick that up and display it on the panel. I just need to get the Arduino's output into JMRI!

It's probably my question bouncing around! The Raspberry Pi option seems interesting and I did follow it up. The Pico W is cheap, only £6! It's the rest of it I'm not sure about. The WiFi is sort of useful as it reduces some wiring and connections. The downside is getting that message into the main computer, a PC. Maybe a wired connection to a serial/usb port? The other point is, once I've got the data to the PC, how is JMRI going to process that as an ID Tag? Are we sure that we're not just swapping the same issue to a different bit of kit? Have you managed to do this with your system?

Thanks for the replies. I am aware of The McKinley Railway and the work done on its RFID system, very impressive. However, all I'm trying to do is get the tag id into JMRI as a Reporter. The reader works and data is recieved by the JMRI rfid command monitor, it just doesn't get any further. That's the bit I'm trying to find out.

Thanks for your reply Nigel. I have tried posting this question around various Forums, but without any luck so far. So I thought I'd try this Forum! I'm sure someone must have done this somewhere, just a case of finding them!

Has anyone tried experimenting with RfID, Arduino's and JMRI? I have an Arduino Uno connected to a MFRC522 13.56MHz reader. I have found a couple of sketches (code) that enable me to read the tags and display the ID on the Serial Monitor. What I can't seem to do is get that tag ID into JMRI. I'm pretty sure it's something to do with the serial output format of my Arduino not being of a type recognised by the various JMRI RfID options. Has anyone had any success with this and maybe have a working sketch they could share or some pointers on how to code the correct output format please? I have a working MERG CBUS RfID installation on one layout and have had the Arduino working with the 125kHz Seeed Studios reader on another layout. However, I would like to standardise on 13.56MHz so models may be used and read on either layout. I have scoured the Internet but not found anything yet. I'm sure it can be done, but I am at a bit of a loss with coding. Thanks

Thanks for that, I didn't know if they may be used in that instance. I have seen numerous diagrams illustrating up to six lights. Disc Rouge sell a five light version, so presumably based on something?

I quite fancied using a 'route indicator' on the station throat signal to show which platform the train was routed to. I was thinking of the horizontal row of lights that are used placed above the signal head. Would this be appropriate? If it is, then some guidance on how it displays would be appreciated. I only have three routes, so a three light indicator reading left to right would work. I have a working virtual indicator on my JMRI panel. I'm assuming it is off when a double red is shown. Does it come on with a single red or only with a yellow and green? Would it come on with a shunt move? Thanks

Thanks again for all your replies. I have a plan forming now for the signalling. I'll just use 4 aspect signals and use a yellow for a shunt move, which is what JMRI was giving me anyway! Very useful pictures again Gordonwis, thanks. Yes, that's a typical Andy Hart observation on French ironmongery! I have a couple of Andy's models in my collection that will run on this layout. The mix of gantries and posts, as per your photographs, solves a problem with signal positioning, so thanks again for that. Now to source some affordable signals. Any ideas?

Fascinating! A very different way of running a railway! So just a few more questions if I may. Looking at the photograph Gordonwis posted, the first thing that strikes me is that the signals are mounted on a gantry. I have seen this quite often in photographs, even with Signeaux Mechanique. Is this quite common and is it something I should be using? I had originally been thinking of seperate posts at the end of each platform. The other thing I didn't mention was that I was intending the layout to have 1500V dc OHLE. Also in the photograph I see they are all '4 aspect' signals. So how would a shunting move be signalled? I have been looking at some Disc Rouge signals on the Jura Modellisme website and they are very expensive, so use of '4 aspect' rather than '5 aspect' would be more cost effective. It would also be easier to drive from a dcc decoder! It is due to the expense of these signals that I want to get the scheme correct and working (virtually) on my panel before parting with any cash! Unless there are any cheaper alternative makes I don't know about? Reading more on French signalling answered a previous question. I see that red lights are used at platform buffer stops and violet lights on siding buffer stops.

Yes, it is a loudspeaker! Examining too closely here! Just going back to the Guidon possibly protecting a level crossing. I would imagine there would be one either side of the crossing? Would these signals be operated by the gates themselves, the signal box or by the crossing keeper?

Thanks for that Gordonwis. I'm beginning to think that you are right about the location. Maybe a provincial setting would be better. The thing is that this is not my main layout, but something to run my collection of French trains on. I chose single track as I am a bit space starved. It is also a bit of a test bed for trying out various things, but mainly JMRI. It does show me how different French railways are and just how little I actually know about them! Thanks for the photograph, very useful. One query, what is the small white disc next to the main signals? Looks like it lights up, is it a single white manoeuvre?

Further to the White Manoeuvre dilemma, I had a look at the Signal Definitions. As far as I can see, they have used Lunar for this aspect. However, it doesn't seem to be mapped anywhere that I can see. So would either have to remap it to another aspect, or do some jiggery pokery with Logix. This all depends if it is appropriate to use this aspect of course!

On my setup, using JMRI, I have imagined that signalling is controlled by a signalman in a signalbox. So all the signals are at stop (or held in JMRI terms) until a route is set, then cleared appropriately. I'm hoping this is reasonably prototypical. I notice the JMRI signal icons don't have the little white light to the left of the main signal. I understand this is used on non franchisable signals and is lit when the main signal is not showing a Carré. I'm guessing my platform signals should have this? Another point of confusion are the signals that also have a Carré Violet aspect. That would be three stop indications on the same signal! How is this used? Similarly is the white 'manoeuvre' aspect. Would it be right to think of it as a 'calling on' or 'subsidiary' signal for shunting moves within station limits? I can't get JMRI to turn it on, so I will have to have a good look at the signal definitions to see what activates it. All a bit confusing, but very interesting. Quite different to my GWR signalling where you couldn't cough without having the right signal!

I found out what the problem is here. In the JMRI Turnouts Table on the far right, it defines speeds for closed and thrown positions. It had defined the speed for the Thrown position as 'Global Restricted', which turned out to 15mph! So the signal was correctly showing a 'Rouge Clignotant'. Adjusting the speed of the 'Thrown' position altered the aspect to the 'Avertissement' I was expecting. Although that might not be right and maybe it should be a 'Avertissement clignotant, feu suivant avertissement'. However, the latter seems to be a BAL system indication whereas I was thinking more of Code Verlant and Interlocked Manual Blocks. I'm not sure when the BAL system was introduced, or whether I should be using that system.

I'm not really sure, but if you look at the diagrams Gordonwis posted, the middle one shows exactly that!

Thanks for everyones replies to this topic, appreciated. Gordonwis diagrams do help with what sort of signals are placed where. Not so sure if they help with what aspect they would be displaying in different situations! My setup is a single line branching into three platforms, are there any diagrams covering that scenario? Regarding the indications, what would the platform starter indicate for a loco release shunting move? I'm guessing a 4 aspect might show a single red? Or would I use a 5 aspect showing a white? Would the platform starters all be 'non franchisable'? Interesting to see how the Carré Violet is used, I was unsure of that. So French level crossings are not protected in the same way British ones are. My crossing is a bit beyond the station and I had it in mind that it was the 'limit of shunt', hence my query over what signal. It seems that a Guidon might be appropriate with a Semaphore beyond controlling entry into the next block.

I don't have any physical signals on the layout at the moment. I'm using JMRI virtual signals on the computer to check the functions and aspects. Where to get model ones from! Good question! So far I have only found one manufacturer called Disque Rouge. These are colour light signals and indicators. I haven’t found any stockists for these, or indeed prices. My guess is, like most French artisans, they will be expensive. Another thread on here is using kit built mechanical signals such as a Carré that also has lights! If you find anything, please let me know.

I am building a small French layout and could do with some help with the signalling please. The layout basically consists of a fiddle yard exiting on to a single line to a three platform station. One platform also serves as the reception/headshunt for two sidings. It is meant to be in a busy Paris suburb! It is DCC powered and controlled by JMRI. I have 'planted' some SNCF colour light signals at what I think to be the appropriate places, although I'm guessing my placing probably follows British practice rather than French. Using JMRI's Signal Mast Logic, the signals do change according to route and block occupancy. However, the aspects they show are somewhat confusing! This is where I could do with help! The platform 'starter' signals correctly show a double red until the route is cleared, then show a yellow (because of the signal in advance) The signal the other way controlling access to the platforms is a bit odd. When cleared for platform 1, with one point to cross, it displays yellow. When cleared for either of the other two platforms, it shows a flashing red! Surely it should yellow as for platform 1? Or is it to do with those routes having two or three points to cross? Or is it the signal logic up the creek? A similar oddity exists the other way, with the 'advance starter' protecting a level crossing showing different aspects depending what fiddle road yard is selected, usually yellow, but with one route doesn't shift off double red! So, what signals should I be using and what should they be displaying in each scenario? Any help would be gratefully received.

They look really good! A question, if I may. How robust are they? I was wondering if they can stand the locomotives pantograph rubbing along the contact wire?

I have tried using a Hornby Class 153 motor bogie in the TS where it wouldn't be quite so noticeable. There is not great deal of room for it to swivel, but I think it depends on what radius curves or points are being used. If the Hornby bogie doesn't work, then I think another option might be the High Level Kits LoRider motor bogie. I have used these before before to good effect. My Class 303 runs great with with one. Just a suggestion

My Alice arrived from Cheltenham Model Centre. She is a little jewel! Have to say 'well done Bachmann'. Running wise, she is smooth and responsive straight out of the box. So bearing in mind other posts on here, I think I must be one of the lucky ones! All she needs now is a decently modelled crew to fill the open cab.

The SR Ashford shunter is looking good. I look forward to building one when the kit is available. Do you have an approximate release date? I have a partially completed Golden Arrow resin one, but it's been shunted into a corner awaiting yours which looks so much better!