mikemeg

Richard, Here's another photo which might help you with the tender. This photo, though not directly referenced as a B16 tender, is a North Eastern 4125 gallon tender and is lined in mixed traffic livery, so can only be from a B16. I also have supporting drawings for the 4125 gallon tender which I will forward to you on a PM. Hope these help. Regards Mike

Richard, A few more B16/1 photos for you to peruse. I don't have a photo of 61412 but these two (61413 and 61414) might give you some further help with the model. Looking at your model v the side on photo of 61443 shows that the gap between the cylinder front and the footplate curve on the photo is larger than this gap on the model. So, either the cylinders on the model are longer or the footplate is shorter. I think someone did comment that the kit footplate is 2 mm short; perhaps this shows where the shortening has been done. These locos have always been a favourite with me especially as they were always so closely associated with Summer specials to Bridlington and Scarborough. There is a record of over thirty of the class being seen, in one weekend in Scarborough, during the early 1950's. Hope the backhead drawing is useful. Regards Mike

Richard, I don't know if this photo is of any use to you but, strangely, this is the best one I have of a B16/1 late in its life. As you can see the external condition of this loco is appalling though, by this time, many of them were in similar states. The loco carries the later LNER designed boiler, identifiable by the dome position, and various other details are visible on the photo. I assume that your model will not replicate the condition of this loco. Regards Mike

Richard, Many thanks for the kind words. In all honesty, the assembly of this motion is right at the limit for me; the limit of actually seeing the pieces with sufficient clarity, the limit of handling such tiny components and the limit of soldering multiple tiny components together. But, with care (quite a lot of care) and patience (ever such a lot of that) it is possible to assemble this motion. Anyway I've now soldered up the first set of motion, except for the rotating arm. The joint spindles have then all been trimmed flush to prevent any fouling of the parts when moving. The whole thing moves freely when the eccentric cams are rotated so now for the second set after which the actual valve spindles will be assembled and tested. Once this motion is assembled and installed, then the loco superstructure should be comparatively simple - famous last words, perhaps!! Cheers Mike

LNER B4 Having assembled the rotating arm and made some new lifting arms, then a quick check that this assembly lines up before starting to solder the various bits together whilst still preserving movement at the ends of the eccentric link and on the join between the lifting arm and the eccentric link. The two joints at the ends of the eccentric link are the only ones which should be subject to any serious movement and stress; the other joints are still subject to movement but much less so with less stress. The eccentric cams, at the left of the photo still need cleaning up to remove excess solder. I'm now having to resort to the lighted magnifying glass to do some of this as the parts are very small. Cheers Mike

Keith, Firstly, apologies to Richard for causing a 'digression' on his thread. The shed shown in the posting, above, was Hull Dairycoates. Until its rebuilding, in 1955/56, this shed boasted six turntables all within a single building. That said, this building was actually built in several stages, being added to as the locomotive allocation increased. When we knew this place, after the 1955/56 rebuilding, there were two turntables within the shed itself and two further turntables, one each end, outside the shed. Additionally, there was also a four road 'dead end' straight shed. We knew it in the late fifties/early sixties and it was quite a place! We would bunk around this shed most Sunday afternoons and on many evenings, so we must have 'gone round' the shed several hundred times. This place never, ever, lost its fascination, though latterly ( c1964 / 65 ), watching the scrap lines grow ever longer, we stopped going, from then simply to rely on the memories and the wealth of photographs. Now, though the shed building still stands, there is little evidence that this was ever the North Eastern's largest loco shed. I do have quite a few photos of this place so here are a couple more. Just look at the shafts of light coming through the soot stained roof lights; you could cut them with a knife as they pierced the stygian, smoke filled gloom. On a Sunday, when the locomotives had their day off, all was silence; there would be no sound save for the faint hiss of steam, the steady drip, drip of water and oil and the occasional flapping of pigeons up in the roof beams. As Richard said, this was a very different world, but one which many of us felt privileged to have seen. Cheers Mike

LNER B4 So the thumb and fingers have survived the assembly and shaping of the second of the eccentric links, so now onto the motion lifting gear assemblies. Again, two of these driven from a common lifting gear axle. As yet, neither of the two valve rod assemblies has the end spindles soldered up and won't be until all of the motion components are assembled. Cheers Mike

LNER B4 The two sets of valve rods have been assembled onto their eccentric cams and the first of the eccentric links has been assembled and profiled. Another of those multi-layer nickel silver components, again quite small; this one requiring quite a lot of filing to achieve the final shape. A shape now shared by my thumb, middle and index fingers!! Anyway, the full assembly has just been pinned (not yet soldered) to check that the eccentric link will travel the full distance without binding, which it does. Now to subject the fingers to even more 're-shaping' as I make and fit the second eccentric link!!! Cheers Mike

Hi Richard, Many thanks for the info re the ModelMaster transfers which I will certainly try. Your comments re the sheds of the North East reminded me of a trip I made around Easter of 1962, up to Newcastle. It was a Sunday trip and I can vividly remember bunking around Gateshead, Heaton and Tyne Dock sheds. Gateshead and Heaton had an incredible mixture of ex NER ad LNER locos but the most memorable part of that Sunday afternoon was the roundhouse at Tyne Dock. By this time the roundhouse roof had gone but around the turntable were the last four N10's and some of the Q7's. I think twelve of the Q7's, all of which were then shedded at Tyne Dock, were in Tyne Dock shed, that day. Oh and the return trip, from Newcastle to Hull was on a special, which travelled the LNER East Coast Main Line to York and then around the York - Church Fenton - Selby 'loop' on its way back to Hull. The locomotive was 60002 - Sir Murrough Wilson, of Gateshead shed. Quite late out of Newcastle, it arrived quite early into Hull, so must have got a move on!! Oh to be able to re-live just one of those steam shed Sundays!! Long while ago Richard; magical days in those great 'cathedrals' dedicated to the steam locomotive; the locomotive sheds of the old North Eastern. Regards MIke

Richard, I wonder if I might ask 'Whose lining have you used and from where is it obtained, for the BR mixed traffic lining on this model?. I remember thinking, when you painted and lined your G5 build, how good the lining looked, I have always used the HMRS methfix/pressfix lining for BR mixed traffic livery but your model lining does look much better. Also though I'm not certain on this but were the boiler bands on the firebox actually lined? Regards Mike

My models are all set in a mid-1950 time frame, by which time the only ex-Great Central class of 4-6-0's left was the B4 and only one of those remained in service at that time! So I purchased the B4 kit, some years ago, from John Bateson who developed and marketed his range of locomotive kits - all of which were ex Great Central prototypes - under the name of Great Central Models. Sadly, John ceased trading some years ago. The kit has languished in my 'to do' cupboard for a few years without being touched until about two months ago, when it came out onto the workbench. I'm now building and assembling the inside motion and have fitted the first pair of valve rods to their eccentric cams which fit onto the centre driving axle and activate the whole thing. The first photo shows the part completed assembly just placed onto the axle to check that everything sits square, which it does. The second photo shows the relative positions of the valve rods change, as they revolve on their cams, mounted on the driving axle. Now to assemble the next pair of valve rods and then to add the eccentric links to each pair. I make no apologies for the rather slow rate of progress on this but I'm having to learn a whole new design and assembly approach with this kit (and the wonders of working valve gear); quite different from the test builds of Arthur Kimber's North Eastern Kits range. Cheers Mike

Richard, Interesting to watch your progress with the DJH B16/1. Like you, I bought this kit some years ago at a discounted price. Unlike you, however, as I examined the contents of the box I very quickly became totally disenchanted with it, to the extent that apart from a few castings, I chucked the entire thing away. It was this experience which prompted me to volunteer to complete the development of the LRM / Steve Barnfield etched kit for the B16/1 by designing some additions to the etches to produce the two different boilers which were fitted to the B16/1's through their lives. New etches for the splashers were also added as some later locomotives were built with plain splashers as opposed to the beaded splashers carried by most of the B16's. I test built this etched kit - twice - to check out the original etchings and the additions and then, finally, produced the instructions I have to confess that I added a lot of newer castings and etchings, mostly from Arthur Kimber's range, to the original model and did some limited scratch building as well. One of the problems with the B16 is the large distance between the front driving wheels and the bogie such that the front bogie wheels (and the rear ones also) potentially foul the cylinders around curves, though I didn't encounter this problem as my minimum radius curve is 4' 6". Allegedly it is this problem which has prevented the r-t-r guys from producing a B16. The two photographs, below, show : - a B16/1 with beaded splashers and the original NER boiler (note the location of the dome) a B16/1 with the LNER designed boiler - firebox was 6" longer and the boiler 6" shorter with the dome placed further to the rear. This model also carries the plain sided splashers, which were a feature of those B16's built after grouping, under the auspices of the LNER. Worth mentioning that the two different boiler types continued to be fitted, interchangeably, throughout the lives of these locomotives, such that many were withdrawn carrying an earlier NER boiler though having previously carried a later LNER designed boiler. The position of the boiler bands does vary according to which boiler pattern is fitted. The Isinglass drawing does show both boiler types with details, for each locomotive, of which types were carried and when. Anyway, best of luck with your build. Regards Mike

LNER B4 Following on from the forming of the slide bars, the assembly of the crossheads and uniting them with their connecting rods comes, perhaps, the trickiest part of the chassis assembly - the inside valve motion. This motion is designed to replicate the prototype as closely as possible and is designed to be operational if the builder so decides. Anyway, this builder is attempting to make the inside motion a working item, so the instructions are being followed very closely. The first pair of valve rods have been parted and the forked joints at the ends of each rod have been assembled. Use of spacers on different sides of the two rods will allow the forked joints to line up vertically, once installed on their eccentric cams. One departure which I have made from the instructions is to strengthen the two valve rods by adding an overlay between the eccentric collar and the curved end of the rod. As supplied, these rods are half etched and could be prone to bending with very little force applied. The reinforcing pieces were fashioned from scrap pieces of nickel silver strip - actually the etch frame from high level gearbox nickel silver etches - to exactly match the profile of the rod from the eccentric collar to the curved section of the rod, some 20 mm. Obviously to allow the two rods to function correctly when installed over the eccentric cams, the inner rod was strengthened on its inside and the outer rod on its outside. The three photographs, below, show : - 1) the inner rod (top) with its augmented piece visible and the outer rod (bottom). 2) the two rods lined up as they will be fitted into the eccentrics which fit onto the centre driving wheel axle. 3) the outer rod located over its eccentric cam, which will be fixed to the centre driving axle and is the means by which the valve rod moves forwards and backwards. So each pair of valve rods will be fitted over a pair of eccentrics, fixed in different orientations, to facilitate the 'rocking' of the eccentric link. The drawing, appended by John Bateson in an earlier posting, shows the full arrangement. Cheers Mike

LNER B4 After a few days away from the workbench, It's back to the B4. Both sets of slide bars have been soldered into the cylinder formers and the crossheads have now been attached to their respective piston rods, this after I had to remake one of the crossheads, as the piston rod had been fitted slightly off centre; enough though to cause the crosshead to bind on the slide bars. Anyway, I now have two crossheads fitted to their connecting rods and everything slides and moves as it should. Checking the fit of the crossheads/connecting rods, within the slide bars now allows the spacing to be measured, which gives a separation between the two connecting rods of 26.5 mm. A correctly gauged set of P4 driving wheels measure around 22.7 mm across, over the driving wheel bosses, so there is around 3.8 mm of space to accommodate the two sets of crankpins and crankpin nuts, i.e. 1.9 mm per side. Realistically to provide for some slack, this is around 1.5 mm per side so not a lot of space (if any) to add the etched bosses to the front journals. So now on to the next stages. Cheers Mike

LNER B4 Firstly, many thanks to John for the information and the drawings above. I have to confess that I am proceeding through this much more slowly than I have with other kits, simply because the design and engineering approach is different from other kits which I've built. Anyway, having assembled all six brakes, though not yet fitted them, back to the motion. The crossheads and slide bars have already been checked for free sliding, however adding the piston rod can change the slide profile, especially if it is fitted off centre within the crosshead. Here I did depart from the instructions in that I turned a 0.75 mm length of the 25 mm piston rod down from its 1.6 mm diameter to 0.7 mm diameter. A 0.7 mm hole was then drilled in the end of the crosshead. The piston rod was then fitted and soldered into the crosshead using the 0.7 mm hole as a positioning guide. The whole assembly was then tested again in the slide bars with the piston rod to ensure that the crosshead still slid quite freely between the slide bars. There was a little tightening at the front of the crosshead movement but this tightening didn't occur until the connecting rod throw was some 7 mm forward of the driving axle centre, As the crankpin throw, on the Gibson 26 mm driving wheels is 4 mm then everything checks out ok. Now to fit the connecting rod small ends to the crossheads and add the final crosshead overlay. Again, to join the con rod to the crosshead I will turn up some 0.6 mm steel pins in one of the pin chucks reserved for this; it's now no good for anything else!! Cheers Mike

The photos below should really be in an entirely different topic area but having shown one of the two seven foot sections of the railway, then I'll bring that particular topic up to date with a picture of what the next - the third - section should look like, looking the other way from 'that bridge' shown in a posting above. The signal bridge and the gantry in the photo are already modelled but the trackwork is still being done. Amazing that this whole scene has gone; the bridge from which this photo was taken, the gasworks and its siding, the ship building yard just off scene to the right, the four tracks (now reduced to two) and the entries and exits from three of the Hull marshalling yards and the yards themselves have all disappeared under housing and retail developments. But what a place it was!! The second photo is the view towards Hull and the bridge, with the down Hessle Haven signal gantry in place. Cheers Mike

As a final posting on the scratch built fencing, I've now fitted most of the sections to the layout. So, yet another photo of 'that bridge' where I and my youthful contemporaries first discovered and became fascinated by the railways. I still have to 'plant' the nearer bank by the side of the permanent way, so there is some very old moss (the real stuff) being 'mummified' ready to make vegetation. Cheers Mike

Richard, As you asked, I set up the jig, again. It simply consists of two wires, pushed into the card at the points where there are holes in ends of the brake hangars. A further hole, at the centre of the brake hangar (where the broach is located) positions the brake block and allows it to be rotated against the wheel rim until the orientations match, Then the soldering iron is very carefully and very lightly applied avoiding the two end wires. After that the next layers are added until the assembly is complete and can be taken off the wires. On assembling layers of etches. I always apply solder to the edges of the layers clamped together, after a liberal application of flux. By this means capillary action will draw the solder into and between the layers. The edge can then be cleaned up 'leaving no trace'. All of the multi-layer rods (coupling rods, connecting rods) are done this way, using broaches pushed into the holes to line them up. So far, I've not yet soldered up one of my broaches such that it can't be extricated from its locating position but 'give me time'. As to solder lines, anyone who follows this thread will know that I am an inveterate user of needle files and the glass fibre brush for cleaning off excess solder. I guess like many modellers of my 'advanced age', I've picked up these techniques over the years, though the 'brake assembly jig' is my most recent technique acquisition. Hope this helps. Regards Mike

LNER B4 A little more progress with the B4. The connecting rods and coupling rods have been assembled, though I haven't, as yet, fitted any of the overlays to the journal bosses on the coupling rods. Ideally, overlays to both front and rear of these rods should be added to all three journals but this is the crux of the clearance issue, especially in P4, so until I can do a 'dry run' set up of the motion on properly gauged wheels, then none of these will be added. The connecting rods are obviously articulated at the knuckle, as shown in the photo. The assembly of the brakes is also different in that the brake blocks are etched totally separately from the brake hangars. Both the brake blocks and brake hangars are formed of two layers which must be lined up and held by pieces of 0.45 mm wire during the soldering process. Doing the brakes this way does overcome one of the problems frequently found in etched kits - the assembled brake's blocks do not hang at the correct angle in relation to the wheel rim. To try and ensure this I set up a jig, using layers of card, into which the guide wires were pushed. Then a 6' 6" diameter AG wheel was placed, against this assembly, positioned as it will be on the chassis. By this means the angle of the brake block can be set against the wheel rim as per the photograph. Lots of new techniques and approaches to learn on this kit! Cheers Mike

LNER B4 John, Following on from your advice on clearances, I wonder if you could offer your advice on the drive train :- Which is the preferred axle for the final drive gear wheel / gearbox. I guess that fitting the working valve gear and gearbox onto the centre driving axle might prove a little difficult so I assume that the gear box is fitted to the rear axle if the valve gear is fitted to the centre driving axle? What is your recommendation on motor size and orientation of mounting the motor? I do have some Mashima 1424's, 1426's and 1428's which I haven't yet used, so are any of these suitable in your opinion. Regards Mike

John, Many thanks for the drawing and information re clearances. I have omitted the outermost half etched layer on the rear of the crosshead - it isn't visible - as the crosshead was getting mighty close to the sandbox. Leaving this layer off gives greater clearance. I've also mounted the slide bars as far out, within their slots in the cylinder formers, as they will go which adds a few more thou to the clearances. I set up two sets of 6' 6" drivers and the connecting rod just to check on the maximum extent of the slide of the crosshead v the slide bars. Here the crossheads do have spare travel at the extreme limit (i.e. rear dead centre) of the crankpin throw so no problem. Checking on the key clearance i.e. front crankpin nut and the rear of the connecting rod, I think there will be ample clearance if the AG crankpin nut is reversed i.e. effectively counter sunk / flush mounted into the front coupling rod journal, though this can only really be checked once the coupling rod is assembled and then test fitted to check for clearances. So far, so good!! Regards Mike

LNER B4 And then with the connecting rod laid in place just to ensure that the travel of the crosshead, within the slide bars, is not going to be compromised by the crankpin throw on the centre drivers. Looks ok. Cheers Mike

LNER B4 So, despite my initial reaction to the fabrication and fettling of the four slide bars, I have managed to fabricate all four and to shape them to the required profile. Anyway, from the four layers which constitute each slide bar, to a sub-assembly which comprises some eight layers - the crosshead. The instructions do warn of the potential conflict between the rear of the crosshead and the front crankpin as I experienced on a B15 build, some years ago. On the B15 (North Eastern Class S2) the actual clearance between the crosshead and the front crankpin nut was around 1/2" on the real thing, which did require some very careful alignment and also required the Alan Gibson crankpin nut to be fitted in reverse, effectively 'countersunk' into the front coupling rod journal. So, on this model, I did omit a couple of layers of the crosshead, to reduce its width and also slightly reduced the width of the slide bars. I also intend to ensure that the connecting rod journal, which fits into the crosshead, is spaced as far across within the crosshead as it can be, to further increase the spacing between the crosshead and the rear of the connecting rod and the front crankpin though this will only add a few thou to that clearance. Anyway, having fabricated the crosshead and adjusted the slide bar support brackets to provide the correct clearance for the crosshead to slide across the full length of the slide bars, time to set up the arrangement, without fixing anything, to check the whole assembly, including the piston rod alignment, as per the photograph below. All seems to check out ok, though the top and bottom of the crosshead may need a little more filing just to ensure that they clear the slide bar support brackets! Cheers Mike

LNER B4 And then to the 'acid test'; do these two slide bars line up and is the distance between them a consistent 4.6 mm i.e. are they exactly parallel? Well they do line up and the distance between them seems consistent. As yet neither of these is fixed and won't be until the crosshead is fabricated and then checked for free running within the slide bars. Only then can the slide bars be fixed into the slide bar guides. Cheers Mike

LNER B4 I guess we've all read parts of instructions where the immediate reaction is 'you've got to be joking if you're expecting me to do that'. Well, on reading the instructions for fabricating the slide bars, that was my initial reaction. Take four layers of .015"nickel silver, all of them only 1. 25 mm wide and each with four .3 mm positioning holes to be drilled out and then, using 0.3 mm wire to line up the layers, sweat them all together. After doing that, then the resulting piece must be filed to remove the layer edges and produce a single, shaped piece. Anyway, I followed the instructions to the letter and, after a couple of hours of very exacting toil, I managed to produce the component shown in the photo below; a shaped slide bar and almost finish its partner. Now just another two of these to do!! Cheers Mike