mikemeg

LRM LNER B16/1 More detail added to both B16/1 builds in the form of the cylinder drain cock apparatus. This is all scratch built and is a mixture of brass and .020" plasticard microstrip. Again, this lot was assembled under a magnifying glass; an aid which I now resort to using more and more. Cheers Mike

LRM LNER B16/1 The last real challenge on these two B16/1 builds is the piping for the steam reverser, from the cab to just forward of the centre splasher. I've used 0.5 mm wire for the piping and a tiny piece (only 1.5 mm long) of 1/16th brass tube for the union, with 1.0 mm outside diameter brass washers to represent the bolts on piping where it joins the union. All of this was drilled and assembled under a magnifying glass and very strong light. The piping is not yet fixed but it looks ok and it fits, so all is well. The firebox support, for the piping, is a short handrail knob, with the hole broached out to 0.55 mm to allow the piping to pass through it. Again done under the magnifying glass! Because I intend to finish both of my B16/1's in British Railways lined black then the various pipes along the boiler - steam reverser pipes, vacuum pipe - will not be fixed until painting and lining is completed. Trying to 'thread' boiler band lining in and around all of that pipework would be a nightmare. As I've said, more than once, these two test builds have incorporated a lot of changes from the kit, as supplied, and there is quite a lot of scratch building on both models. Once the challenge of actually building the kit was achieved then it became a question of how much further could these test builds be taken. Hopefully, this model and its similar 'twin' do now convey the look and feel of the LNER B16/1's. As an aside, one of my first loco spotting trips was a Spring Saturday at York in 1958. That day we saw thirty B16's of all three variants; almost half of the class. But then we saw almost two hundred more locos as well including eight 'streaks'. Cheers Mike

Just to illustrate how 'revealing' these digital photos can be, on the photo, above, I noticed that the tender is around 1 mm low at the front end; this by the relationship between the tender and loco running plate. Checking the fitting of the continuous springy beams, which provide the springing of the tender, I found that the spring wire was 'threaded' through the wrong one of four slots on the spring holders, on one side of the leading wheelset, causing a 1 mm difference. Easily fixed so the tender is now level. I would like to thank my reader(s) for their comments and support through many years and may I wish my reader(s) a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New Year. Cheers Mike

LRM LNER B16/1 The second of the two test builds of this kit, representing one of the last twenty to be built and carrying an LNER designed boiler, has now been brought up to the same level of detailing as build 1. So now just the steam reverser piping, some additional lubricators and then sand pipes and the final brake linkage for them both and they're ready for painting. Cheers Mike

Hi Dylan, No, I don't know whether the High Level J72 Chassis fits the latest Bachmann J72 but if you go onto the High Level Models website, there is a contact option. This allows the user to contact Chris Gibbon with queries or enquiries and he always responds pretty quickly. So ask him the question. Regards Mike

Mick, Has to be said that you have made a very good job of this, despite all of its shortcomings. I/m not sure about the 'avoiding unless desperate' but certainly 'avoid unless you're prepared to rectify, amend and replace some parts'. I'm looking forward to seeing your build of the Raven Pacific. At what period will you be setting this model; I note that your locomotives all carry LNER pre-1946 numbers? At least one of these locomotives - 2404 - was rebuilt with an A3 boiler, sometime in the 1930's. Anyway, please allow me to post a photo of City of Kingston upon Hull, once again courtesy Mick Nicholson's collection. Regards Mike

LRM LNER B16/1's With both tenders now complete then just the final few details on build #2, nearest the camera, and they can both travel to the paint shop. The wisp of smoke, from the one in the foreground, is just a little discolouration of the artists card, which I use as background for the photos. For a very old kit, which has come in for some criticism, they haven't turned out too badly though, as has been said before, many of the castings I've used are from much more recent ranges and there is a fair degree of scratch building in some of the detailing. All of the original castings, which I replaced with newer offerings were from either Arthur Kimber's North Eastern Kits or from David Bradwell, both of whom have on-line catalogues of their castings. The error (and the only one on the tender) with the tender coal rails can, with care, be rectified, as above. The omission of the lower firebox washout plugs can be rectified by using a Markits product or, as I did, by turning down some .010" nickel silver or brass 2.0 mm inside diameter washers, leaving a .015" annulus, which can then be soldered onto the firebox sheeting using the ubiquitous cocktail stick to hold them in position. Cheers Mike

LNER B16/1's The drag beam detailing is all done and the basis for the tender front detailing is also now added. Just the representation of the brake and water scoop standards housings plus the floor extension and this one will match the first one, which was done some time ago. The front handrail stanchions will be added next to avoid damage to the further detailing as the holes are broached out for the stanchions. Cheers Mike

Someone asked me, via the private mail facility, where do I get the 1/16" lead sheet from. The answer is no, our local church roof doesn't now leak; I bought a 'roll' of 6" wide lead flashing - as used on roofs, etc. - some eight or nine years ago from a builders merchant. From memory there was some 30 feet of it, when purchased, and it cost around £60. This stuff can be cut with tinsnips or sawn using a junior hacksaw and can be bent, rolled or otherwise shaped very easily. Almost all of my locomotive models have a coil of this stuff glued inside the boiler and forward of the motor, usually somewhere over the front set of driving wheels. Even though I've used quite a bit, the roll is still b----y heavy!! Cheers Mike

LNER B16/1's A quick coat of primer; I have already primed the tender top so opted not to add another coat but just to prime the new component. Anyway, it looks ok and matches the drawings from which I am working. The 'dodge' on the coal rails is now clearly visible but will be totally obscured when the loco is coaled. What is also visible in the coal space are two pieces of 1/16th inch thick lead sheet, to add weight to the tender. Yet another 'addition' which will be hidden by the coal! Also worth adding that both of these 4125 gallon tenders have fully sprung 'chassis' using continuous springy beams with 2 mm high level axle boxes and horn guides. This isn't essential though if the tender is to be used for pick ups, then springing does help that process. I probably should have also mentioned, earlier in the builds of these two, that both locos are also compensated on the middle and rear driving axles. I made the compensating beams from scratch. Cheers Mike

LNER B16/1 So not being able to find a suitable casting to represent the tender filler, then one more time resorting to scratch building. The photo shows one completed and the first processes for the second; representing about thirty minutes work in total. As this is only 5.5 mm high with the top being 6.0 mm diameter, then photographing it/them isn't that easy. The first one still needs a little cleaning up before I prime it and fit it. Cheers Mike

I would absolutely agree with that statement but then, in most instances, I think they do. Of course, if examined under a microscope, then there will be divergences from the 'absolutes' of the prototype and, depending on the skill and proficiency of the builder, those divergences may be magnified or they may be reduced. The issue is the interpretation of 'resemble'! When the essential characteristics of a prototype are reduced to 1/76th of the actual size, even with the most modern CAD systems, there are bound to be anomalies. 10 thou on the model is 3/4" on the prototype. The alternative to using these inaccurate and unrepresentative kits, is to build everything from scratch using whatever drawings are available. But then even the works drawings were not always accurate and up to date. The 2-8-0 Austerities, built during WW 2, could vary in length by up to 1.5" and all sorts of 'expedients' were used, due to shortages. I realise that we could debate this 'ad infinitum' and your view is no less valid than mine. Regards Mike

Personally, I think we have lived / are living through a 'golden age' for model makers. The generation who have designed, produced and supplied the myriad of kits and continue to do so, provide us with a wealth of choice as to what to build and how. Sadly, some of that generation have already passed on and we must hope that a new generation takes up their work, otherwise, eventually, all that will be left will be the r-t-r suppliers and a diminished, increasingly rare and increasingly expensive supply of kits via E-bay and the like. Cheers Mike

LRM LNER B16/1 The detailing of the second tender is now progressing with the addition of the Dave Bradwell axle boxes/springs and long spring hangars and the castings of the later style of toolboxes. Now the scratch building must be done for the tender water filler and the detailing of the tender front and draw beam. Looks like the join, where I rejoined the coal rails after removing 3 mm, isn't too prominent, though the nearest coal rail needs to be eased down onto the tender flare just a little. Cheers Mike

LRM LNER B16/1 A couple of photos of the prototypes for the two models above. 61413 carried an original North Eastern boiler (pattern 49) from 5/1940 - 1/1952 and then from 1957 until its withdrawal in September 1961 The photo was taken during late 1960 when the loco was stored at Hull Springhead prior to its withdrawal the following year. Worth noting the external condition of this loco, which is very good for a loco awaiting its final journey. The second photo taken at the coaling plant of Hull Dairycoates shed, in 1949, shows one of the last batch of twenty locos built, identifiable by the plain splasher fronts. This loco carried the later LNER designed boiler (pattern 49a) from 10/1947 to 12/1951, though with a much flatter North Eastern smokebox door. Note the condition of the front footplate, which was noticeably bent and which 'feature' I haven't actually modelled. This loco was withdrawn in 5/1961. The two photos are shown courtesy of Mick Nicholson, whose collection of photos of North Eastern and many other locomotive types, continues to be an invaluable source of information for model makers. Many of these old black and white photos have been seriously edited by Mick to remove foxing and fading but, as Mick says, none of these photos can be taken ever again. Cheers Mike

LRM LNER B16/1 And then there were two, with the second build featured. This one carries the LNER designed boiler and the plain fronted splashers and represents one of the last twenty to be built, under the auspices of the LNER. This is the first time that both have been featured in the same photo. As can be seen, the second tender still needs a little more work, though the modifications to the coal rails have been done and the loco also needs a few details adding. The chosen prototype for the second build - 61462 - was unusual in that as late as mid 1950 (I have a photo of this loco dated mid 1949) and possibly beyond, it carried the very flat smokebox door, as originally fitted to these locos, but with an LNER designed boiler and it also retained its cylinder tail rods. Cheers Mike

LRM LNER B16/1 Some time ago I did a couple of test builds of a London Road Models kit, which LRM took over from Steven Barnfield, some years ago. The kit was actually drawn and developed over thirty years ago and was not fully released by LRM until four or five years ago. This after some additional etches were developed to allow the kit to represent the entire class of B16/1's, including the last twenty which had different splasher fronts (these were built by the LNER) and to cover the alternative LNER designed boiler which was fitted to most of the class at some point in their lives. In fact the original North Eastern boilers continued to be overhauled and fitted along with the later LNER designed boilers right up until the withdrawal of these locomotives in the late 1950's/early 1960's. As the original artwork no longer exists for any of the etches in this kit, no modifications can be made to those etches, so any errors or omissions can only be made good by the provision of additional etches. Anyway, two test builds were done on this kit, with both builds being taken to fully powered models, though not yet painted. There were, on both builds a couple of details missing and a known error on the tender in that the coal rails were some 3mm too long on the 4125 gallon tender. Prompted by another modeller building this kit - MickLNER - and documented within his thread, I decided to finish the detailing of these two builds, correct the error on the tender by removing a 3mm section out of the coal rails and then resolder and reattach them and then send both off to the paint shop. The photo is the first of the test builds, with the tender coal rails modified by reducing their length by 3mm and then re-attached. The tender has also now been primed. The raised plating rings around the lower washout plugs have also now been added leaving just the plugs themselves to be done. The steam reverser piping also needs to be done, which is the next job. So, the photo shows the state of the first build after a day spent working on it, representing a loco carrying one of the original boilers, though as the prototype would have appeared around mid 1950. Cheers Mike

I feel I've made quite enough comments and postings on what is, after all, Mick's thread and Mick's build of the LRM B16/1. I still have some work to do on the two test builds of this kit, which long ago ceased to be test builds and have since become partial scratch builds in order to achieve the standard which I want to achieve, using all sorts of cast and etched components which have become available long after this kit was first developed; as well as a measure of scratch building. I will continue to document and post the final stages of work on my two builds which are ongoing and now virtually complete but those postings will be made on my own thread. I might even tackle the B16/2 and B16/3 using the PDK kit as a 'basis', in a similar fashion. But not yet awhile; I've another 'B' (and this one's ex Great Central) to complete!! So, my thanks to MickLNER for his patience and forbearance while this debate was enacted on his thread and my compliments to him for making such a fine job of the building of the LRM B16/1 kit. Regards Mike

In the technical data for the B16 class, the overall lengths are given as :- B16/1 and B16/3 62' 6" B16/2 63' 4" On the B16/2, the bogie was moved forward by 9", necessitating a lengthening of the mainframes, hence the difference in overall length, which was all forward of the cylinders. Also, the Gresley rebuilds - 7 locomotives - were converted to left hand drive; the Thompson rebuilds - 17 locomotives - remained as right hand drive. Cheers Mike

I believe that the Mike Edge B16/2 build is somewhere within his thread; I remember reading and commenting on it and it was illustrated with photos. I do know that Mike Edge's valve gear etch was intended for use with the PDK kit, which can produce the B16/2 and B16/3. Externally, the B16/2 and B16/3 were very similar though the front bogie was moved 9" forward and the frames lengthened on the B16/2 to accommodate Gresley's derived motion on the middle cylinder. The B16/3's, which were a Thompson rebuild used three sets of Walschaerts gear, including the middle cylinder, so the frame extension was probably not needed on these rebuilds. I believe that the B16/2's had new cabs fitted and this must have extended to the B16/3's also. I also seem to remember that the driver's position differed between the B16/2's and B16/3's i.e. left hand drive or right hand drive. This was externally discernible by the position of the vacuum pipe from the cab to the smokebox. Cheers Mike

Talking to Dave, only this last week, he did mention that the axleboxes for the larger tenders were different and not covered by his castings. And to add to the list of inconsistencies the wheels on the B16's were 5' 8" 20 spoke not 18 spoke as they are on both test builds. I have to confess that I think the development of the Steve Barnfield kit was never really completed, as has been variously commented on throughout the sequence of postings covering Mick's build. Nonetheless I have removed both test builds from the airtight tin and am now preparing them for the paintshop. Both are powered and both run well, including around my 4' 0" 'corners'. And, in the final analysis, the kit plus some newer castings and etches and a fair bit of scratch building, does convey the essence of the North Eastern Class S3 / LNER B16/1. Like many of the pre-grouping designs, these locos simply exuded that aesthetic cleanness of outline and that sense of balance, though the B15's did that even better!! These locomotives were always very special to those of us who lived in the East Riding of Yorkshire because of their association with those Summer Saturday or Sunday excursions to Bridlington or Scarborough - 'A day by the sea and a ride on the train'. And I can well remember my first spotting trip to York, one Spring Saturday in 1959. We saw nearly thirty B16's, that day; almost half of the class! Cheers Mike

Mick, Looking back through my postings and notes when the two test builds of the B16/1 were done, I've found that the castings used on the tenders, for the tool boxes, water filler and the tender springs, axle boxes and spring hangars, were actually all from David Bradwell's range. David sells a complete 'castings kit' for North Eastern tenders, which includes everything except the spring hangars. These are available separately as the North Eastern used two different types of spring hangar, one type short and another type somewhat longer. The longer ones are appropriate for the later 4125 gallon tenders as fitted to the S3's / B16's. Cheers Mike

Simon, I have assembled kits which did have the slight arc on the slot and they work fine. However, springing the whole bogie, in conjunction with equalising the bogie axle boxes tends to limit the deflection of the bogie at the slot, as the bogie actually does what it is/was designed to do - guide the locomotive front end into curves. As MarkC remarked in a posting above, effectively partially constraining the bogie, by making it load bearing, significantly reduces the deflection within the slot, so renders the arcing of the slot unnecessary on all but the tightest curves. Cheers Mike

Mick, I didn't use this narrow spacer but used a wider one. In fact, the bogie on both test builds is equalised with inner frames and stretcher, which is 12 mm wide and then pivoted side frames carrying brass axle boxes at each end. The dimension over the axle boxes is around 16 mm, thus allowing some side play on each bogie axle within the bogie frame. The photo showing the bogie mounting arrangement, in a posting above, also shows the bogie construction and profile but I'll photograph the bogie with and without wheels and confirm the measurements for you but not until the morning. Regards Mike

Mick, The short answer to this question, at least with regard to the first P4 test build using the original footplate etching, was that it was achieved with some difficulty, using an absolute minimum of sideplay on the driving wheels, thinning the splasher upstands as much as possible and mounting the front footplate steps as near the valance as the loading gauge would allow. Then very careful assembly of the connecting and coupling rods. I also did quite a lot of measuring and dry runs on this to check clearances and make adjustments before any of the various sub-assemblies were actually fixed together. As I've said, above, that is the downside of P4; clearances are simply 'scaled down', they are not augmented by the reduction in gauge width!! Allied to those steps, detailed above, was quite a lot of patience, a fair degree of determination and the occasional recourse to a glass of red, when patience and/or determination showed signs of flagging. These latter two characteristics are essential when test building kits which no-one else may hitherto have built. Regards Mike