mikemeg

LNER J72 Chassis The new chassis has been primed, painted, wheeled and powered up and all seems ok. While I was in a replacing/repairing mood, I decided to remake both sets of front footplate steps, so that has also been done. The original steps are very thick and even though the backs were thinned, there was very little clearance for the coupling rods with P4 gauge wheels. The new steps have a much thinner upstand, so clearance is now no problem. Still some painting of the new components to be done and a little more weathering of the chassis and wheels but it's just about there. The sandpipes also need to be made and fitted. So now, 68724 can go to 'The Shunt Ball'!! Actually eight days from the off, one day more than the week I had planned. Cheers Mike

LNER J72 Chassis So the guard irons have been fitted and then everything assembled and fits together without any problems. Care must be taken to ensure that the wheels will pass the brake shoes, otherwise wheeling the chassis will be a problem. Sand pipes, front and rear can be added after the chassis is painted and wheeled, as there are holes to position and fix those pipes. One last photo with the shiny nickel silver before I bury the shine beneath a coat of grey primer and then paint it, prior to fitting the wheels, motor and gearbox and electrical pick ups, which should be done tomorrow. So pretty well there on this, in the week off from the B4. Cheers Mike

Davy, Yes indeed, that is exactly how Chris arranged the etch and for all of the three gauges - 'OO', EM and P4. Chris has also supplied alternative gauged parts for the cylinder fronts and rears and the motion plate, so that none of the detail is lost for EM or OO; just narrowed. Not only that but the lining up of the brake shaft and actuator, so that the brake linkage matches the actuating linkage is also facilitated. Now you can see why I'm such a fan of High Level's products. They do need some very careful work but they produce a wonderful end result!! Anyway, the handbrake and steam brake actuators have been assembled - photo 1 below - and fitted onto the brake shaft which has then been fixed within the journals at the rear of the mainframes. The brake linkage has been separated prior to fitting to the brakes - photo 2 below. And the brake hangars and shoes, with their fixing bolts have all been assembled and are ready for fitting to the brake hangar shafts - photo 3 below. So now a few locating holes in the mainframes need filling and dressing off and then just the final assembly, then priming, painting and weathering. The coupling rods from the first build are being re-used and it was those which were used to set up the chassis jig. Then it is back to the B4, reinvigorated and refreshed!! Oh and John (Rowan) on this posting I've managed to space and separate the photos, so thanks again for the tips. Cheers Mike

LNER J72 Chassis With the addition of all of the brake shackle bolts - about ten in all - then the brake linkage is now ready to be separated from the jig. Someone did ask me how I solder things which are so close together without loosening adjacent components which have already been soldered. The simple answer is that the soldering iron I use has a pointed bit i.e. like an elongated sharpened pencil, By that means the solder can be applied to very small areas and can be applied very quickly. That said, when soldering in these shackle bolts, I did clamp those already soldered to prevent the solder from melting and the piece falling out. I guess the whole process of adding the shackle bolts, including cleaning up the soldered joints, took around an hour. As an addendum, all of the straight pieces of nickel silver strip which which surround the etched parts - i.e. the end strips of the jig below - will be recovered, separated and then stored for future use and you'd be surprised how useful this can be. Cheers Mike

LNER J72 Chassis Lastly, comes the assembly of the brake linkage. The single etched sheet of nickel silver, containing all of the etched parts in the kit, is organised such that the etching of the brake linkage components also contains a jig for assembling the brake linkage. This jig, is designed to allow the assembly of the brake linkage in any of the three gauges for which the kit is designed - 'OO', EM or P4, with triplicated parts for all gauge dependant sections of the linkage. Thus, the main brake linkage stretchers are left in place on the etched sheet and are therefore automatically spaced to fit the wheelbase of the loco. The long piece of brass rod (0.5 mm) is, again, positioned using the jig and allows the correct positioning and orientation of the brake adjuster, after which the brass rod can be withdrawn. A very clever piece of kit design which does make the assembly of this section of the kit very much easier. However, adding the tiny pieces of 0.5 mm rod, to represent the bolts in the linkage shackles, is still going to try the patience just a tad! I'm still just inside my week off from the B4 build, but only just!! Cheers Mike

John, Many thanks for the post, above. I had never noticed the insert option which appears when a photo, already attached, is clicked on prior to submitting (initial post) or saving (subsequent editing) of the posting. My posting, immediately prior to yours above and which occasioned the request, has now been edited using the method you described in your posting. This has achieved the required separation of the two images. Many thanks for that. Regards Mike

Here's a query which someone might be able to help me with. When I attach two or more photos using the attach option, they appear as a contiguous photo entry with no space between them. Now there is obviously a way of interspersing posted photos with text, both as descriptors of particular photos and as a means of delineating a succession of photos; but how is this done? Cheers Mike

LNER J72 Chassis Repeating the build of something which I first built quite a few years ago does provide for some interesting reflections, especially in the almost unconscious acquisition of technique and approach. On this chassis, there are a number of quite intricate parts and assemblies. On the first build, over eight years ago, there were a few times when I thought, dauntingly 'You must be bl---y joking; that's barely possible'. These thoughts were especially prevalent when attempting to assemble the valve motion, the brake linkage and forming and assembling the rear brake cylinder and piping. This time around those same parts and assemblies were not at all daunting and were put together without any difficulty. It never occurred, this time, that these assemblies would pose any difficulties and indeed, they didn't. I guess that's what age and experience does, though as yet, despite my advancing years, the deteriorating effects of age haven't yet made themselves apparent - touch wood or, perhaps, nickel silver!! Cheers Mike

Many thanks John. Equally, your own thread has also long been a 'must read' for me as you build and assemble a wonderful collection of models of the old North Eastern. Very best regards Mike

LNER J72 Chassis Just as an appendix to the previous posting; the very first postings, on this thread, posted on July 10th, 2015 dealt with the building of the High Level Models J72 chassis, first time around. Though the photographs, originally posted to accompany these postings, have long since disappeared, owing to issues when RMWeb updated and then changed their hosting supplier; believe it or not, I still have all of those photographs in my photo files. Thus I have started the job of replacing some of those lost photos in the very first few postings of this thread. Being a confirmed 'photo hoarder' does have its advantages - eventually!! The first one done was 68724 with 69003 being the second build of the chassis kit. Both locos were shedded at Hull Alexandra Dock during the late 1940's and 1950's. The photo, below, was taken in 2015. Worth adding that when these two conversions were originally done, I did also do a considerable amount of updating of the loco superstructures, utilising many of Arthur Kimber's castings and small etches. Also worth mentioning that since these two conversions were done Arthur Kimber (North Eastern Kits) has developed and produced kits for both the short bunker (first twenty locos) version and the long bunker (all remaining locos) version of the J72 both of which I test built. So, yes, I have four J72's. Cheers Mike

LNER J72 CHASSIS One of the habits I try and avoid is that of breaking off from one project, part way through, to start another. While by no means an immutable rule, it is nonetheless something I try to avoid. However, I have just contradicted that rule, though only quite briefly, but then - according to the time honoured homily - 'A change is as good as a rest! Now, quite a few years ago I built a couple of High Level Models J72 chassis' to be used with the Bachmann J72 bodies; the older version. While both of these builds were ok, the first one was very definitely not up to the standard of later builds; the chassis compensation was too stiff leading to pick up problems and the inside motion was poorly assembled. Anyway, having finished these two J72 conversions, I resolved, one day, to re-do the first such build/conversion with a completely new chassis, though retaining the wheels, motor, etc. and using the High Level Models chassis kit once again. Incidentally, the price of this kit, which includes nickel silver etches, hornguides and axleboxes, top hat bearings, gearbox etches and gears, has changed very little since I bought the first two, over eight years ago, and does offer great value. Usual disclaimer; just a very satisfied customer. Having built the inside motion on the B4, and while the mojo for tackling these very intricate motions remained strong, I decided to interrupt the B4, for a week or so, to build another chassis for the first of the Bachmann J72 bodies. This time taking very great care to get the soldering of multiple layer components right and to ensure that everything was totally square on this build. Anyway, after three days I have reached the stage shown in the photo below, with the brakes and brake linkage and one or two other details still to do. This time, those axleboxes will move under their own weight, so the pick up problems should be eliminated. Also, the representation of the inside motion has been assembled with much greater care and the benefit of having built some thirty five locos in the intervening period. We all live and learn!! So, I should be back finishing the B4 by the end of the week and the J72 conversion should also be re-completed. Cheers Mike

While I finish off the B4, here's a picture of another one about to enter the paint shop, after the brake gear and some piping is added. This is the fourth (and very definitely the last) A6 tank, which I have built. This one will be 69798 late - 1950 - of Hull Botanic Gardens shed and will be finished as per the photo below; early British Railways unlined black with the legend spelled out in full. The prototype photo is, as almost always, courtesy Mick Nicholson's collection Cheers Mike

Hi John, Apologies for the delayed reply; been away doing various things. Not least a visit to Malvern in Worcestershire to go around the Morgan factory and thence on to the Cotswolds. In answer to your question, above, yes; I would love to add one of these water scoops to the tender model. With the glorious weather of the last few days and taking the opportunity to visit various parts of this country, while I still can, then progress on the B4 has slowed though I'm probably only a week or two from completion. So many thanks for the offer and yes please. Regards Mike

LNER B4 Since my last posting, which was a few weeks ago, I have completed the tender underframe and am well on with the tender superstructure. However, I have returned to the loco superstructure to make a modification to the kit. The design of the mainframes follows prototype practice in that they protrude above the running plate around the smokebox. This makes the join between the front footplate section and the smokebox front somewhat fragile but also to fit the loco body to the chassis entails the running plate passing over some embossed rivets in the upper portion of the mainframes, which is gradually 'grinding down' those embossed rivets. To avoid this and to strengthen the front end of the loco body, I have separated the protruding portions of the mainframes from the lower sections. These can now be soldered to the bottom of the smokebox sides, flush with the running plate, thus allowing the chassis and body to be separated much more easily. Cheers Mike

Simon, Many thanks for the posting which certainly confirms that this loco, in common with many other ex GC locos, could have carried different buffer types front and rear. Your posting also explains why the buffer beams on the loco front and tender rear are also different. Progress on this loco and its tender is now restarted and proceeding. I did use the last few weeks to do some maintenance jobs on the loco fleet, wheel cleaning, pick up adjustments, etc. Regards Mike

LNER B4 John, Many thanks for the new front buffer beam etch. I've parted them and dressed off the cusp and then given them a polish with the fibre brush. I did intend to use Arthur Kimber's brass castings for the LNER group standard buffers, on the locomotive and these do have the four corner bolts modelled on the casting. Looking more closely at the photo below, I'm not sure that the tender buffers are LNER group standard; they could be the original Great Central ones. Different buffers, loco and tender, does sound unlikely but I have various photos which do show these types of anomalies; not least an A7 with one round and one oval buffer head on the front buffer beam or an A6 with oval buffers on the front and round ones on the rear. Even more odd, a photo of a G5, on a train, with only one front buffer head. Now to complete the loco body detailing and the tender. Earlier in this thread there is a photo of 1482 taken in Ardsley shed c1949; three quarter view but from the rear, so I've reposted this photo below. This shows that the rear tender buffer beam did not have the profusion of rivets (or any rivets) which the front one had but there is additional 'plating' around the coupling hook slot in the buffer beam. So if I build another B4, then I'll have at least the front buffer beam overlay, as a starter! Once again, many thanks for providing this. Regards Mike

John, Re the offer of a front buffer beam 'rivetted etch', that would be very useful and would save having to make a new buffer beam overlay. To 65179/Simon, many thanks for the info and the references. The photo of 1482 at Driffield was actually taken in 1947, not 1950 as I had previously stated, though 1482 was seen at Driffield in the summer of 1950. The photo of 1482, above, must have been taken at Ardsley shed, shortly after Nationalisation. The last four examples of the B4 were all based at Ardsley, by the final days of the LNER and the last one - 1482 - was withdrawn from that shed in November 1950. I guess many of those who use this site will have heard the name Neville Stead; that photo of1482 was a part of his collection. Neville passed away on March 9th of this year, aged 85. Like many of my youthful colleagues, we knew Neville as part of the band of spotters and enthusiasts who congregated at Hessle Station and Hessle Haven during the 1950's and early 1960's. Indeed the inspiration for my Hessle Haven layout was an illustrated article written by Neville for one of the railway journals. Neville moved to Whitley Bay in the mid 1960's and thus we lost touch with him but continued to read his articles and some of the publications which he authored or inspired i.e. LNER Locomotive Allocations The Last Day, which was published and authored by Willie Yeadon as a result of Neville's idea. So R.I.P. Neville, and thank you for your legacy. Mike

LNER B4 So now to go back and complete the processes which have been left as the assembly proceeded. First such job is to complete the cylinders by infilling the straight sections between the cylinder and the mainframe, top and bottom on each side. For this I simply cut pieces of brass strip of the appropriate width and solder them to the cylinder formers. On all cylinders which transition from curved to straight sections, especially the North Eastern ones, I always use separate straight sections rather than try and fold the straight section into the cylinder wrapper. The transition is often so tight that folding just doesn't give a sharp enough transition. On this model I have used the same approach though the straight sections are largely hidden. Having fitted the straight sections to the cylinder formers, the wrapper can then be rolled, trimmed if necessary and then soldered to the cylinder formers. The cylinder fronts, which are again quite beautiful turnings, are simply pushed into the wrappers to check the fit and are not yet soldered in until the tail rods have been fitted to each front cover. The instructions make mention that the original tail rods were far longer than those later fitted to these locos by the LNER, however I still need to establish how long these shorter LNER fitted tail rods, actually were. Cheers Mike

Richard, Thanks for that tip. Sticking the tape to hardboard, obviously the shiny, smooth side, does leave a residue on the tape, which does affect its adhesion to anything else. Plasticard should remove this problem and will probably leave much more of the adhesive on the tape. Once again, many thanks. Mike

LNER B4 After a day or two away from the workbench, It's back to the B4. I've been experimenting with ways of portraying boiler bands, having always previously used Arthur's etched nickel silver ones, thinned down. I used some adhesive masking tape, which was lightly stuck to a piece of hardboard. From this an 0.7 mm wide strip was cut. Now the test was/is whether the masking tape had retained enough adhesive, once released from the hardboard, to adhere to the brass boiler. It did, so the front and rear boiler bands were duly fitted and, so far, have stayed fitted. I also cut and fitted the cab rear handrails, which should line up with various holes in the cab beading and the cab floor. They did, somewhat to my surprise, though this is another testament to the precision of the kit's design!! Finally, if only to really make this look like a locomotive and an ex Great Central locomotive at that, suitable holes were opened out in the boiler and smokebox to check out the dome and chimney. Worth mentioning that the dome, which is a quite beautiful casting/turning was attached to a 4.5 mm diameter stem, so the corresponding hole in the boiler is quite large. The chimney does not have a stem but still requires a 3mm hole to be opened up in the smokebox. Having said that, the fit of the dome and chimney over the boiler and smokebox is absolutely snug; the best I've ever seen!! As I now proceed with this build I am more and more encouraged for though 'it is not for the faint hearted' it is perfectly capable of being built; with care. Now to complete the cylinders and a few other details on the chassis prior to wheeling and powering this chassis. Cheers Mike

LNER B4 While getting to the current state of this model, I have omitted some parts of the assembly, intent on coming back to these parts at a later stage. One such assembly is the two cab footsteps, which I deliberately left off until the bulk of the 'heavy work' on the locomotive superstructure was completed. So with the addition of the piano valve cover, the heavy stuff is complete so I can now do the detailing jobs. The two cab cupboards / seats were assembled some time ago but can now be trial fitted into the cab, though they are not yet soldered to the cab floor. The drag beam has also been assembled and fitted with its buffers. Here again I departed from the instructions! The two rear buffers have shanks around 0.8 mm diameter which engage with holes in the drag beam. This seemed a little flimsy, so I fitted each shank of the two buffers into lengths of 1/16" brass tube around 5 mm long, which was then soldered into the drag beam, flush with the backing plates, so that none of this tube is visible. This provides a much better base for these buffers. With the drag beam, I opted to solder it to the mainframes, using tiny lugs which are provided on the end of each mainframe. This soldered joint was then extended to solder the bottom of the drag beam to the rearmost frame spacer, so providing a much stronger join. One photo, below, shows the current state of the cab end including the portion of the firebox which protrudes into the cab . The footplate widening, just aft of the cylinders, is more clearly visible on this photo. The other photo shows the two cab footstep assemblies each with its reinforcing struts folded and attached, ready to fit under the cab, flush with the drag beam. Each of the step assemblies on the prototype was 'pinched in' by around 2 inches (0.6 mm), just above the upper step, so that the protruding steps would clear the loading gauge. This pinching in is reproduced on the model. It's getting easier now!! Cheers Mike

John, Many thanks for the additional information. The handrail knob locations are relatively easy to alter. On all of the models I have built, I never solder the handrail knobs in place, I prefer to glue them in place. I always position them using a piece of handrail wire which is progressively threaded onto the knobs in place, front to back, so that each successive one fitted can be adjusted so as not to divert the handrail from straight. Using glue, albeit relatively quick setting, does allow for the final slight adjustments to be made to achieve that uniformity of height and orientation, using the positioning piece of handrail wire. Obviously, the first one fitted - usually the smokebox knob - relies, solely, on the piece of handrail wire being truly horizontal. Once all of the handrail knobs are fitted, then the trial piece is discarded and the final one piece handrail is shaped and fitted. For boiler bands, Arthur has produced a nickel silver etch of these with .005" (scale 3/8") sheet. These can be further thinned to around .002" to .003" (scale 0.15" to 0.225") however they are 'thickened', by the thickness of the layer of solder, when soldering them to the boiler. On this model, I shall certainly use the Alan Gibson sellotape solution. I have fitted the firebox portion, which protrudes into the cab, which was included in my measurements to ascertain just how much longitudinal space was available for the gearbox/motor (c 45 mm), so my target is to fit a Mashima 1428, as shown in your diagram. Once again many thanks both for your interest and for the information which you have provided throughout this build; please keep it coming. Regards Mike

Thanks Chas I have to say that this one has taken somewhat longer than it should have done. This is due to my being very cautious with this one; not wanting to rush and mess up and also due to doing other things totally unconnected to making models. Anyway, I'm now well on the way to completion. Cheers Mike

The boiler has now had a coil of sheet lead fitted inside it, which adds around 6 ounces to the overall weight of the loco. The boiler and firebox were then soldered together, ensuring that the positioning remained compatible with the smokebox sitting between the upper portions of the mainframes. On the front footplate I have departed from the instructions by removing the piano valve cover from the front footplate, which has then been fitted to the main footplate sections. A separate, scratch built valve cover will be added next, to complete the basic loco superstructure. The kit provides the option of fitting the front buffer beam to the mainframes or to the front footplate section. I'm still unsure as to which will be the best option. Fitting the buffer beam to the front of the mainframes will probably be the sturdier option, as long as there is no gap between the top of the buffer beam and the front footplate. Otherwise, if the buffer beam is fitted to the front footplate then some strengthening of the join may be necessary. Cheers Mike

My thanks to those contributors who pointed out that the last few postings were made by Mike Megginson, not mikemeg; even though we share the same being. This was due to my changing browser and using a different system, temporarily, to post to the thread. Anyway, I'm now back as mikemeg and the 'interloper' is banished, at least for now. Both of the systems which I use to access this website now know that I am mikemeg!! Cheers Mike