SED Freightman

An item in Commercial Motor magazine of 16/01/1923 (pg.10) mentions specifically that Express Dairies were contemplating the use of road transport from country depots to London due to high railway rates, so the rail traffic may have ceased well before WW2. Additionally, Express Dairies look to have been concentrating bottling activities at larger sites as time passed, leaving the smaller sites as simply local distribution depots for bulk supplies of bottled milk arriving by road. Another item in Commercial Motor edition of 12/05/1931 (pg.116) states that by this time Express Dairies only had bottling plants at Herne Hill, Eltham, Cricklewood, Chiswick, Finchley and Harrow Road, so possibly Eltham was also supplied via Mottingham at one time. Re Mrs SEDF's out of school activities, I could not possibly comment.

Mrs SED Freightman grew up in Mottingham and remembers the Express Dairy, unfortunately she failed to take any interest in activities at the station goods yard ! The 1957 1:1,250 OS map shows a siding entering a long thin building adjacent to the Down Platform, as the building appears to be too narrow for a goods shed, perhaps it was a covered area for discharging the milk tanks. The quantity of milk forwarded to Mottingham would seem to be too great for just local use so presumably it acted as a distribution point for other local Express Dairies such as Petts Wood. There is a photo on Flicker https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8588/28536022601_4b545af6b7_b.jpg showing an express dairy road tanker in the Petts Wood area.

The requirement for the C&D parcels business to hire all its vehicles (and their drivers ?) from NCL certainly affected the quality of service provided at larger parcels depots such as Bricklayers Arms - no prizes for guessing who went short of delivery vans if NCL had a maintenance backlog. The requirement to use NCL did not appear to extend to Full Load Depots, at least on the South Eastern Division, as deliveries were undertaken by Dartford Wharfage at Plumstead Freight Depot and Wallis Haulage at Rochester Freight Depot, although there was some NCL activity at the latter.

Yes, Tiger Rail. Paul Bartlett's excellent website has a couple of photos of these wagons at Cambridge bearing a sign for 'Mineral Haul' at the right hand end as per the leading wagon in the earlier photo of a train hauled by the pair of 37's at Kings Cross Goods. Any idea who or what were Mineral Haul ?

In addition to the various services already mentioned, Kings Cross Goods received several trains of sea-dredged aggregate each week from Angerstein Wharf. I am not sure when the traffic commenced, but the SR WTT Section N (Conditional Services), commencing 06/05/1974, shows a pathway available each weekday for an 0430 (6E48) Angerstein Wharf to Kings Cross and 0930 (6O62) return, formed of a class 33 + 9 x 102t bogie hoppers. The service ran via Kew East Jn and the Kings Cross Incline, reversing into and out of Kings Cross Goods, and continued operation for Murphy, Marcon and latterly Tarmac Topmix, until closure of the yard for re-development. Discharge of the wagons was by means of a lorry mounted conveyor system, which was also used at other terminals served by the same wagons such as Paddington New Yard and Stewarts Lane. The trains were worked throughout by Hither Green crews.

The bogie hoppers, whilst appearing similar, are unlikely to have been the ex Hall Aggregates wagons as after the traffic to Crawley and Tolworth ceased they were stored at Newhaven Town (definitely still there on 31/07/1993) until eventually sent to Peak Forest. I believe the wagons are used, along with other ex RMC hoppers, on services to the new St Pancras Churchyard Sdg which replaced the remaining cement and aggregate facilities in Kings Cross Goods. Interestingly the bogie wagons pictured, appear to have sufficient underclearance to be suitable for discharge by mobile conveyor as well as dropping their contents into a pit, could these have been unloaded in the same siding as the Murphy Aggregates wagons ex Angerstein Wharf ?

Many thanks for sharing your photos, they brought back happy memories of many trips to the RhB over the past 30 years.

If you were at Harlow Town 1979-80ish you may have received some of my POD (Proof of Delivery) requests sent from DMO Beckenham, and returned photocopies of the relevant signed delivery sheets which were required in the event of claims for non delivery. All this correspondance passed backwards and forwards via the incredibly efficient internal mail system and it was unusual to wait more than about four or five days to receive a reply from just about anywhere in the country.

I may be completely wrong (or thinking of somewhere else), but I vaguely recall that there was some sort of legal complication which prevented BR from terminating the ability to serve the private siding or disconnect it, prior to the conclusion of long drawn out negotiations with the owners. Possibly their interests were eventually brought out to allow disconnection.

Railway Magazine August 1969 edition mentioned that from 15th June Paytrains were introduced on the Leeds - Harrogate - York service and from 29th June they were introduced between Cleethorpes and New Holland, Barton-on-Humber, Doncaster, Retford, and Newark via Lincoln, and between Lincoln and Sheffield. The item also states 'Most intermediate stations have become unstaffed and passengers have to rebook when interchanging'. Railway Magazine November 1969 edition mentioned under the heading 'Hope Valley Pay Trains', that tickets had been issued by conductor / guards over the Hope Valley Line between Shefficeld Midland and New Mills since 7th September.

The train is 6O55 0914 (FSX) Temple Mills Yd to Sheerness Steelworks, due to pass Nunhead at 10/30. The service called at Hither Green Yd 1046 to 1239 where the ER loco was exchanged for a 73 which arrived on 6E96 0914 (FSX) Sheerness Steelworks to Temple Mills Yd which called at Hither Green Yd 1057 to 1204, this service being worked forward by the ER loco off 6O55.

Interesting, I have dug out my old timetables for another look and they show the following :- WTT valid 01/06/1981 to 04/10/1981 6S73 0855 (SX) Dover Town to Dundee - Air Braked Service via Ashford, booked for class 73 to Hither Green. 6V40 1053 (SX) Dover Town to Acton Yd - Air Braked Service via Faversham 11/43, Hoo Jn 1230-1315, booked for class 47 (ex 6O50 0150 (SX) Severn Tunnel Jn to Dover Town arr.0924) WTT valid 05/10/1981 to 16/05/1982 6S73 0855 (SX) Dover Town to Dundee West - Air Braked Service via Ashford, booked for class 73 to Hither Green. From 01/03/1982 this service was retimed to start 0850 and run via Faversham 09/38 and Hoo Jn 1032-1148, booked for a class 73 to Hoo Jn. 6V40 1053 (SX) Dover Town to Acton Yd - Air Braked Service via Faversham 11/43, Hoo Jn 1230-1315, booked for class 47 (ex 6O50 0150 (SX) Severn Tunnel Jn to Dover Town arr.0924) WTT valid 17/05/1982 to 04/07/1982 6S73 0850 (SX) Dover Town to Dundee West - Air Braked Service via Faversham 09/38, Hoo Jn 1030-1145, booked for a class 73 to Hoo Jn. 6V40 1053 (SX) Dover Town to Acton Yd - Air Braked Service via Faversham 11/43, Hoo Jn 1200-1315, booked for class 47 (ex 6O50 0150 (SX) Severn Tunnel Jn to Dover Town arr.0928). WTT valid 05/07/1982 to 15/05/1983 6V40 0845 (SX) Dover Town to Acton Yard - Air Braked Service via Faversham 09/38, Hoo Jn 1030-1145, booked for SR loco. 6S73 1053 Dover Town to Mossend Yd - Air Braked Service via Faversham 11/43 and Sole Street, presumably worked by a 47 to Willesden. Copy of WTT Supplement No.1 confirming date of alteration to 6S73 & 6V40.

By fuelling away from base I assume you mean a recogised depot with a fixed fuelling facility, fuelling at other locations really falls into two catagories, unplanned / emergency or planned. In either case the locos operator should undertake a basic risk assessment to determine the suitability of the location, for example access for the road tanker and its driver/operator who is unlikely to have track safety training, presence of watercourses or site drainage arrangements in the event of spillage, presence of third rail / fire risk, etc. If only a one off arrangement the tanker driver will probably have a small drip tray and basic spill kit on the lorry for use on site as necessary. For a location where refuelling by road tanker is planned on a regular basis, then you would expect to see a portable drip tray, absorbent matting, spill kit, drum for storing waste oil (ex drip tray), no smoking signage and probably a cabinet for storing the items in when not in use. Whilst it is against the law to knowingly allow ground pollution to occur, the amount of effort taken by operators to comply can be somewhat variable, I am sure that people will have seen signs of oil spillage at locations where fuelling takes place.

No meeting at OOC or Willesden Euroterminal was complete without vistiting the Old Oak Cafe - is it still in business ?

The large warehouse adjacent to the north end of the sidings at Wroxham was (and probably still is) used for potato storage, I seem to remember the building being re-clad 5-10 years ago. The large goods shed at North Walsham had a rail siding along the rear and was also used for potato storage in times gone by, last time I was there it had been taken over by the Norfolk Motorcycle Museum. The goods yard at North Walsham is situated between the main line and BPA's gas condensate terminal, during GBRf's period of ownership it was used by Frimstone as a rail served aggregate terminal for a while, but following the sale of the lease back to Network Rail I suspect rail traffic is unlikely to return. Whitlingham Jn used to receive occasional trainloads of cement from BCI Northfleet when demand was heavy, but I think it was normally served by wagonload (Speedlink) services.

Thanks for posting all the OOC photos, they have brought back memories of a few work related visits, mainly during EWS days. Interestingly, the above photo has captured the unloading lorry used for discharging Marcon / Tarmac bogie hoppers at Park Royal, Westbourne Park, Kings Cross, Stewarts Lane and Luton. Presumably EWS aquired the vehicle/s when they brought the Tarmac hopper wagons, I remember that at least one of these was wrecked at Kings Cross Goods when the train departed whilst the conveyer was still in place under a wagon, happy days ! Back in the days when Marcon operated the lorry it was driven by an Irish gentlman and could on occasions seen racing through the streets of London between terminals, trying to arrive before the train.

From what I recall in EWS days the non-loco maintenance was undertaken in or around the Pullman Shed, although rather than actual wagons they dealt with parcels stock and charter train coaches. I had no cause to visit in Mainline Freight days, so cannot comment on their activities, but possibly Res subcontracted their stock maintenance to Mainline or maybe sublet part of the depot. After the dust had settled post privatisation there were found to be many inconsistencies in lease plans and titles (at least in the South East) and so although the Old Oak Common Lease was for a TMD & WMD it is quite likely that the WMD was just a generic term used to describe the non locomotive side of the depot, such was the haste with which freight leases were drawn up prior to 01/04/1994.

Thanks, I have checked and found that the Spillars Pet Food factory was at Barrhead with the rail traffic being transfered by road to Paisley Underwood, the factory was closed by Nestle in 2004.

Could the wagon have been used to transport fire fighting equipment around Whitemoor Yard, most of which would have been difficult to reach by road.

Old Oak Common Traction Maintenance Depot and Wagon Repair Depot were included within a 125 year lease commencing 01/04/1994 between Railtack (as Freeholder) and Mainline Freight. The lease area comprised 34.5 acres of the much larger overall site and I believe it included the Factory, Fuelling Shed, and Pullman Shed. Subsequently Network Rail became the Freeholder and EWS (and latterly DBS) the leaseholder although the original 125 year lease remained in place. With the closure and demolition of the depot I would imagine that Network Rail have terminated the lease for a financial consideration unless it has been subject to compulsory purchase.

Regarding the earlier question of what happend to Goods Agents / Clerks, from what I remember on the South Eastern Division at around 1980 all our freight facilities and TOPS Offices were under the control of the local Station Managers, and I suspect the TOPS Clerks or local manager / shunter dealt with any residual paperwork although the advent of CTT (Consigned Through Tops) had eliminated a lot of paperwork and wagon labelling with the principal exception of continental traffic. There were still dedicated freight clerks at Ashford West Yd (Joyce ?), Plumstead Full Loads (Ben Johnson) and Rochester Goods, while in addition to TOPS Clerks at Dover there were also Shipping Clerks who dealt with the import and export documentation.

Sorry, I had had failed to click on the link to the original photo and its very comprehensive description.

The train you saw would most likly have been 6F91 0902 Hove Yard to St Leonards West Marina, this was sheduled to run round at Eastbourne 1043 - 1124, so could have been running somewhat early, the return left St Leonards as 6F92 at 1303. Most likely explanation for the use of barrier wagons would be if one of the tanks had defective brakes and therefore required three fitted wagons either side to avoid remarshalling the train during the run round moves at Haywards Heath and Eastbourne. With a daily trip operating from Hove to either St Leonards West Marina or Newhaven, it would have made sense to have had some barrier wagons at Hove to provide cover for wagons with defective brakes as it would not have been practical to remarshal trains at either Haywards Heath or Eastbourne. As suggested by the Fat Controller, the HAA is most likely to have been the one used as a barrier wagon, there being no use for such wagons at the Central Division coal depots.

That would be an awful lot of fruit juice. I seem to recall that there was a two way flow of block trains from Wisbech to Scotland (Barrhead?), conveying empty cans northbound and Spillars petfood southbound. Interestingly there is a brake van on the rear, was this required for long propelling movements / shunting or were there trainman operated crossings on the branch which required a someone at the back to close gate after the train had crossed ?

The train you saw would have been 6V40 1053 (SX) Dover Town to Acton Yard ABS (air braked service), which was booked to pass Faversham at 11/43 and called en route at Hoo Junction 1230 - 1315. The service appears in the freight WTT commencing 01/06/1981, but may also have appeared in earlier editions, and ran until 03/07/1982. From Monday 05/07/1982 the service was retimed to depart Dover Town at 0850 and was worked by a class 33, at least as far as Hoo Junction.