SED Freightman

Unfortunately I have only just started to catch up with looking through your excellent photos after a gap of a month or so, so please accept my belated condolencies.

Looking at the stock I would suggest this is definitely a mail / parcels service, unfortunately I do not have the relevant WTT for this date.

Whilst searching for something else it would appear that Coxes Lock Mill was still receiving rail traffic in the mid 1970's. The WTT commencing 01/05/1972 shows 7L52 0912 TThO Woking to Staines calling at Addlestone 0926 - 0950 and the marshalling instructions state "Convey traffic for Addlestone (Coxes Lock) only. Length Limit 25 SLU's". The WTT commencing 06/05/1974 shows 7L52 1502 TThO Woking to Staines calling Addlestone 1516 - 1540 and the marshalling instructions state "Convey traffic for Addlestone only. Length Limit 25 SLU's, including Brake van at each end".

Although the general movement of unfitted wagons on the SR ceased in the 1970's, it was still possible to operate such trains by special arrangement and with suitable instructions issued to signalling staff. On the SED for example there were two trains per day Acton - Hither Green - Ashford commencing 01/06/1981, although this reduced to a daily service from 03/08/1981 until the service ended on 04/09/1981. These services conveyed unfitted wagons for scrapping at Ashford Works in an effort to keep the staff there occupied as the Works were run down. Somewhat later, two unfitted specials were operated in late 1989 (?) from Stewarts Lane to Brixton, conveying large girders for the replacement Atlantic Road Bridge.

Looking at the SR Freight WTT (Section M) for Mandatory Train Services commencing 01/05/1972, there are no Class 9 services, however there are a few where the marshalling instructions permitted the conveyance of unfitted wagons. On the Central Division they were listed as follows :- 8Y45 2140 SX Eastleigh to Norwood - Formation : Norwood (Vacuum Fitted), Chichester (Vacuum Fitted), Chichester (non Vacuum Fitted), Norwood (non Vacuum Fitted), brake van. 8Y40 0200 MX Hither Green to Norwood - Norwood portion to be marshalled with appropriate fitted head and tail and brake van each end. 8Y41 1012 SX Hither Green to Norwood - Formation : Bricklayers Arms (Vacuum Fitted), Brake van, Norwood (non Vacuum Fitted), Norwood (Vacuum Fitted), brake van. Norwood portion not to exceed 74 SLU's, 700 tons. 8G75 0130 MX Norwood to Eastbourne - Formation - Eastbourne (Vacuum Fitted), Eastbourne (non Vacuum Fitted), brake van, Galley Hill and ST Leonards WM (non Vacuum Fitted), Galley Hill ad St Leonards WM (Vacuum Fitted), Three Bridges, brake Van. Length Limit 56 SLU's arriving at Eastbourne. Strangely no instructions are shewn for the return services although at this time it was clearly still possible to despatch unfitted wagons to a range of destinations on the Central Division.

There were also two depots receiving perishable traffic on the Up Side at Paddock Wood - Broome & Green and (I think) Mack & Edwards, further north, off the Long Siding was a rail served Bonded Store (now a car auction) operated by Bond Delivery which received tobacco products.

Roosendaal, Netherlands - 18/09/2004

Rolvenden, Kent & East Sussex Railway - 03/05/2009

My direct involvement with Andover ended in 2004 so things may have moved on, however at that time Switch Transport (latterly TWT Logistics) were tenants of Kemira, who leased the shed and part of the adjacent land from EWS, who in turn had a 125 year lease of the shed and adjacent yard from Railtrack (latterly Network Rail). I think it unlikely that Switch ever brought the site, however if they did then the sale would have had to be agreed by Network Rail, who as owner of the freehold would have pocketed a share of the sale proceeds. More likely is that at some stage Network Rail may have brought out the 125 year lease from DB, as they did with many sites under Project Mountfield in 2014, NR will then have subsequently sold the site for development. An alternative possibility is that, as has also happened elsewhere, DB have obtained permission to dispose of the site for development with a share of the proceeds going to Network Rail. In all instances Network Rail will have benefited financially from disposal of the land for a non rail use. Whilst not having the best of road access, clearly it was not a major hindrance to TWT / Switch who had no problem with a steady flow of articulated HGV's into and out of the site. The goods yard was clearly capable of handling reasonable sized trains and has done so in the past, however Network Rail now appear to be seeking to concentrate freight movements into a small number of large terminals for (their) operational convenience. No one will be developing any new freight facilities on the Ludgershall Branch if they require land aquisition, new connections to the Network, highway alterations, etc. unless of course the developer of a large shed is looking to gain planning permission for a green field site. Whilst railfreight has now become something of a niche product and in reality there would be little chance of Andover attracting any new trainload traffic, other than perhaps a short term project related aggregate flow, the suggestion above by bodmin16 that the yard and shed could be used in conjunction with the movement of parcels or other consumer goods as proposed by some operators in more recent times may have provided a potential use for the warehouse and adjacent yard, but now we will never know. Sorry to go on, but it is sad to see the elimination of another one of the few remaining sites that could have been returned to a railfreight use relatively cheaply.

Interesting to read that NR have managed to eliminate another potential railfreight facility.

TOPS also had a facility for sending free format messages between terminals - the ZZ message. In the mid 1980's I used to send a 'ZZ' message to various SED locations each afternoon detailing any amendments or alterations to the following days coal programme. You could enter any number of destination TOPS terminals (eg. Y188730 = Hoo Jn) just as email addresses are used currently, only in those days email was unheard of. In addition to TOPS terminals, the Freight Section at Waterloo received a separate computer terminal in about 1985/6 which gave access to Lotus Notes and Multimate, only one member of the office (Roy Draper) was trained to use it primarily for the production of BR29973 forms and TOPS tag tables.

Herewith the version 11 pdf (hopefully), posted on behalf of SouthernBlue80s. Class47s_SouthEasternDivision_v11.pdf

Rhiw Goch, Ffestiniog Railway - 25/05/2012

Sorry to spoil the new list but I have found a couple more visitors to Bat & Ball whilst looking up some other information ;- 47083 arr B&B on a train ex Mountsorrel on 22/04/1983. 47009 arr B&B on 6O94 0828 ex Mountsorrel on 08/06/1984 & 11/06/1984.

In the late 1970's at West Malling Telephone Enquiry Bureau there were three teleprinters, one connected to each Divisional Control, the name / make Creed as mentioned above by iands springs to mind. The machines were receive only and printed on reeled carbonated paper that had about six layers. During times of serious disruption when all three machines could be printing at the same time the noise they produced was quite something. At the same time, the Beckenham Control Office had Telex, TOPS and NTN terminals, I remember having to use the NTN machine for TOPS enquiries on occasions but it was much slower than the actual TOPS Terminal. Not sure how much use the Telex machine received, but in the Freight Section we did get some telex messages relating to international traffic for train planning purposes and also information relating to exceptional load movements via the train ferry.

Whilst the BP Refinery was still operating the Grain Branch could see 10/12 trains a day in each direction, with more in the winter months and during times of exceptional demand for oil, additionally trains for Brett Marine Aggregates at Cliffe also used the Western end of the Branch. Either the Grain Branch or the Fawley Branch would have been the busiest single freight lines on the SR during the 1970's or 1980's.

The SR Working Timetable, Section WK, commencing 13/05/1985 shows the following services on the route between Wilton Jn and Exeter Central :- DOWN 6L59 0433 (FO) Salisbury E Yd to Gillingham UKF Sdg arr 0513 - Company Train 7V80 0535 (SX) Salisbury E Yd to Meldon Quarry - Vacuum Braked, RCE a/c. Ran via Westbury (rev.) and Yeovil Jn. 7V08 0905 (MO) Woking Down Yd to Meldon Quarry - Vacuum Braked, RCE a/c 7V08 0954 (MSX) Salisbury E Yd to Meldon Quarry - Vacuum Braked, RCE a/c 6L75 1115 (SX) Salisbury East Yd to Dinton MoD Sdg arr 1144 - Air Braked Service 7V84 1305 (FSX) Salisbury East Yd to Exeter Riverside Yd - Vacuum Braked, RCE a/c UP 6L78 1225 (SX) Dinton MoD Sdg to Salisbury East Yd arr.1259 - Air Braked Service 7O70 1130 (FSX) Meldon Quarry to Salisbury East Yd arr.1549 - Vacuum Braked, RCE a/c 6L83 1614 (FO) Gillingham UKF Sdg to Andover UKF Sdg arr.1726 - Company Train 7O70 1130 (FO) Meldon Quarry to Salisbury East Yd arr.1732 - Vacuum Braked, RCE a/c

11 Tipplers would have been pretty much the maximum load (I don't have a load table to hand) as the train had to be accommodated within the signals at each end of Platform 2 at Swanley, (ie. 12 coach lengths). On arrival there had to be room between the rear of the train and the signal for the crossover at the London End so that the loco could fit in after running round via Platform 1. The key to timing the service at Swanley was to find a sufficient gap in the services using Platform 2 that allowed time for the run round and then co-incided with a gap in traffic on the Up Fast so that the train could proceed to the Chislehurst Up Loop, where it could loiter awaiting a gap in traffic before a crawl along the Up Fast and set back into Chislehurst Sdgs. It was possible to run around longer trains at Swanley but this would prevent moves from the Down Slow (Platform 4) to the Down Branch whilst the run round took place Following further investigation with much assistance from guzzler17 the normal load for a Class 56 appears to have been 15 PTA's.

My first official trip on a freight train was from Shepherds Well to Tilmanstone Colliery and back. The train was formed of a 73 + 10 MCV's which were filled with a front loader at the colliery, the fine coal being heaped quite high above the wagon sides. I travelled back in the rear cab and once on the move along the branch, even at a fairly sedate speed, the loads started to settle down in the wagons and quite a bit went over the sides. By the time we arrived back at Sheperds Well the loads had settled down inside the wagons and the spillage had stopped. With at least three trips per day there must have been a considerable build up of fine coal along the sleeper ends at the colliery end of the branch.

Retimed in Supplement 1 also commencing 14/05/1984, to depart Dover Town at 0830, still Latchmere Jn 10/40 though.

I think the Tilbury Roadstone hoppers may have appeared occasionally at Bat & Ball.

I think you are correct in that the service is most likely running in the 0855 path ex Westbury, however this had become a Q Path from 07/07/1986 so could well have been used for additionals running to other terminals under Short Term Planning arrangements. My thought that this could be headed for Bat & Ball was due to the mention of Reland hoppers within the formation, which I do not recall seeing on Hothfield services (but very happy to be corrected), also during busier periods Bat & Ball often received additional services in the afternoon in addition to the Mountsorrel service in the morning.

I think you are right, I don't recall any trains from Tytherington to Bat & Ball , which was a Redland Aggregates terminal, albeit they handled stone from Tarmac, hence the trains from ARC Whatley Quarry where ARC had an agreement to supply Tarmac in exchange, I seem to recall, for Tarmac not developing or expanding their own quarry in the Mendips.

I would suggest that 56051 is working 6V90 1048 Chislehurst ARC Sdg to Acton Yard where the wagons would be attached to a jumbo train back to Westbury / Whatley Quarry, this was due past Latchemere Jn at 11/29 heading for Kensington O. 56039 (not 56059 as captioned) as would be close behind on 6V17 1000 Allington ARC Sdg to Stoke Gifford Sdgs (for Tytherington ?), which was due past Latchemere Jn at 11/36 heading towards Kensington O. I would hazard a guess the 47621 is working an additional service for Chislehurst, the short length being due to the need to run round in Swanley Stn. I believe Chislehurst was the only SED /CD location where ARC handled grab discharge wagons at this time. Finally 56059 is almost certainly heading an additional service to Bat & Ball Redland Sdg with traffic originating from Whatley or Tytherington.

I think the NSE Queen Mary's may have been allocated to the M & EE dept, possibly the Power Supply Section based at Horsham, if so I guess they would have been used for staff transport on engineering trains visiting out of the way sub-stations etc. In 1988, three QM's hauled by USA Tank 30072 were used to provide rides for the public in Woking Down Yd as part of the Woking 150 event, one of these was ADS56284 which I belive was allocated to NSE. In 1988 two QM's were used to provide brake force on unfitted trains between Stewarts Lane and Brixton in conjuction with the replacement of the Atlantic Road Bridge, I suspect these would also have been from the NSE allocation. In 1993, a gauging trip from Eastleigh to Salisbury and back with S15 No.828 was formed with two QM's to convey the large number of essential (?) staff accompanying the movement, these two may well have been from the NSE allocation. Regarding the non NSE QM's as mentioned above by anroar53, Trainload Construction operated at least one QM for use on Snowdown to Sevington spoil trips and also possibly some Sevington to Shakespeare Cliff trips. In the mid 1990's RfD used a QM to convey BTP Officers on a few car trains between Dagenham Dock and Garston, unfortunately the Merseyside criminal element got wise to this and set light to the van which was destroyed above the frames. As late as 2001, ADS56303 was used as a propelling control vehicle on a trial movement of a Redland Self Discharge Train between Wolverton Centre Sdgs and the Works, having travelled with the train from Mountsorrel.