Covkid

Another vote to retain the steel bridge

Hear Hear Mike Some folk just need a bit of patience in my view, because they will be here within the year to eighteen months I am sure. Consider the other items in the KMRC list - it seems like the dam has been breached and the projects are now starting to flow. Fair play to those who committed to Chris Trerise ordering the railmotors and making the project worthwhile, because I am sure there are masses more who will be wanting buy them when they see them on the shelves. I have firmly resisted so far because of wrong era and wrong area, but after seeing some prototype videos of 92 and 93 in action, I may waver !!

The Crompton was on the uphill end today so would be making most of the noise, and I doubt much difference in volume between a 33 and a 37

Agree with much of that Mike, but Carne was the head of Network Rail, and they messed up badly over many issues. After the GWR electrification shambles - in fact every non Scottish electrication project has been late, there are allegations of unused GWR electrication kit being sold as scrap. The real villain of the peace is Wilkinson and I personally think Horton is taking the hit for him, so nothing is actually changing in the DfT.

But I wonder how many of those 64% are aware of how much of the railway industry is already state owned. As an easy example the Arriva group which operate ATW, XC, Chiltern, Lorol and Northern Trains is owned by DB which is owned by the German Federal government - hence state owned - just not the UK government. Abellio is part owned by the state owned Dutch railways and runs Scotrail and Anglia. Network Rail is Government owned too.

If you go into your favourite search engine and type " 31283 thornaby" you will find plenty

Apologies because this is a Hornby thread but Dapol produce a 7 plank wagon on a 9 foot wooden underframe with brakes and brake lever only on one side. I have bought a couple for repainting into colliery internal user wagons to add variety to my Cambrian kitbuilds.

Have to say I am thankfully not involved in the Northern / TPE / NWR issues but am observing it from the point of view another TOC employee. I watched the News at Ten with the outside broadcast live from Preston station a week ago and the presenter was saying that all passengers to Windermere would be on road vehicles from Preston and Lancaster, so clearly the media were ill informed.

Great "D1047" We are dribbling with anticipation. Well I am anyway.

Perhaps your news is more accurate than mine, but I heard the owner wanted to rationalise - too many projects on the go, and wants to see S100 finished

The apparently well connected "Stationmaster" has mentioned in another thread that KMRC no longer have any links to Dave Jones and all their work is now direct with China. I think it was the D6xx thread where it was mentioned that a couple of Kernow reps are out in China at the moment.

Not sure whether they will cope with the windy hilly route, and whether they will sit down and get stuck into the track twists without slipping to a stand and squealing badly. I know an experienced footplateman whose steam engine was overpowered by the gradients and had to divide the train and run in two portions. Granted the 230 will have traction motors on the powered axles and no carrying wheels, but it is a nasty and unforgiving route. I believe Vivarail's plan for the 230 is to service the units locally rather than run them ECS to and from depots every morning and night. I am therefore guessing whoever is responsible for servicing them will do it locally. It might even involve a recast timetable and a set stabling at Blaenau overnight with service arranged there. Or even one stabled and serviced there overnight swapping with one down at Llandudno during the day. By the same token Vivarail or whoever might service one overnight at Wrexham provided there is a minimum piece of siding somewhere and access to a transit van of oil, spares, cleaning equipement and CET. I know many latterday passenger operations run trains a very minimum of empty miles and outstable trains - a huge difference where a lot of UK trains have to go to a depot everynight for service and cleaning.

I agree "jjb". The issues that dragged on with the GTR / Southern / Gatwick Express must have really ground the travelling public down, but I wonder just how many were actually aware (or actually cared) what the dispute was actually about. The fact that the franchise wasn't like the traditional rail franchise, and was actually really a management contract. The fact that ASLEF were taking strike action against DOO but had actually signed a letter to accept DOO back in 2011. The fact that both ASLEF and RMT were campaigning against DOO but then ASLEF stuck the knife in RMT and did a deal behind closed doors - which they really had to do anyway because it was already agreed. And so on. Not a lot of this was available to people unless they went searching for it. More of concern to me is the frankly abysmal state Network Rail have descended into with issues like electrification schemes. It is said that a pile of steelwork which should have formed the Bristol area OLE has been sold for scrap from a materials dump in Wiltshire. If this is correct it is very very wrong. Most of us acknowledge that electric trains are the future, as they are all over the developed world. There should be a rolling programme of electrification around the country, so gantries and girders should be needed for the foreseeable future. What is the difference in cost between ordering new steel work from a specialist company like Furrer & Frey and selling steel for scrap ?

I would like to put a slightly alternative slant on "Sandpipers" words which I do agree with IMHO the DfT have dlily dallied with the TPE franchise pretty much from day 1. They brought the heaviest DMUs ever over from Germany - so heavy in terms of axleweight that they have speed restrictions governing use on some routes. There were pricing issues with the purchase and Siemens pinned the DfT down to a minimum number order. Industry thinkers suggested that the units were too overspecced but really needed augmenting from three power cars to three powercars and a trailer. In the end the dfT ordered 51 units - one for than the 50 minimum order stipulated by the builder, and still not enough units to operate the projected TPE service. Because of insufficient trains to operate the service DfT ended up switching other fleets around and cobbled together a group of class 170s to join TPE. This meant of course that the brand new franchise had to dual train it's staff (both ops and maintenance) on 170 and 185, although to be fair the 170s were geographically limited in operation. Arrangements had been made presumably by DfT to procure the hire of drivers from Freightliner to operate some northern TPE services and as far as I know that hire continued for the whole duration ofthe TPE franchise, and probably still does. DfT seem to have an impossible job in managing franchise timetables and TPE was a classic. Even though it was supposed to be a fixed term, DfT extended it more than once and it was this that saw the loss of the TPE 170s. It is believed that DfT didn't maintain a sufficiently robust dialogue with the TPE class 170 fleet owners over franchise extensions and Chiltern were needing more DMUs to extend the service from Bicester to Oxford. Chiltern did a deal with the Rosco for when the TPE hire originally ended, and subsequently picked up the hire of the TPE 170/2s which became Chiltern 168/3s. This left DfT in a hole because they were now short of a DMU fleet due to extensions of franchise timetable. To fill the breach DfT rearranged franchised services by shipping Northern 156s from Cumbria to the Manchester area to cover TPE work, releasing TPE 185s to work the former 170 duties. To fill the hole in Cumbria DfT arranged for DRS to refurbish some Mk2 LHCS and fit some DBSOs with "English Electric" cab controls. DRS put several 37/4s through the works as well as procuring a couple of preserved derelict wrecks from Cheddleton and putting those through Derby works at well over a million pounds each. Ironically, the month the second rebuilt "wreck" returned service, one of the Cumbrian class 37/4 diagrams was replaced by a pair of top and tail DRS 68s. This now apparently involves the diagrammed Northern drivers on the 37+DBSO circuit to travel "pass" o nthe train when it is driven by DRS drivers. Much as the media are trying to paint Network Rail as the guilty party in the Windermere bustitution saga, I feel more detail should be understood. I applaud "sandpiper" for his diplomacy and respect the fact that as a TOC employee his words need to be politically correct.

Roads still are the future which is proven by exactly this issue. The chosen result has clearly been to withdraw all the trains and put passengers on road transport, initially for a period of two weeks. I cannot recall an exact instance of this happening, and maybe the closest was the chronic shortage of rolling stock in Devon and Cornwall over a decade ago at the start ofthe FGW franchise, resulting in busttitution of some branches, although there were crew available. So if it is acceptable to put passengers on buses in peak holiday season then may as well as tarmac over the formation and run dedicated buses between Oxenholme and Windermere. but it actually stretches further than that. AIUI the buses are running from Preston and Lancaster, so there isn't any attempt made to convey passengers on alternate TOC trains to Oxenholme (which must be quicker than road) then road them the four odd miles to Windermere. There seems to a deliberate attempt not to travel the Windermere pax on alternate trains, because it allegedly would inconvenience them. How may of you would rather catch a Virgin or TPE train Preston - Oxenholme than transfer to a bus for the last four miles, or would you rather a bus from Preston ?

What needs to be done to a Mk3b DVT to work with Mk4s ? I would think converting the Mk3 DVT to work with Mk4 trailers would be easier than trying to fit the AAR control stand into a Mk4 DVT desk, but I am not an engineer !!! Also drivers would not need any training if the existing Mk3 DVTs were retained. but it also depends on whether "T" are able to lease / buy them from whichever DB subsidiary owns them. i still think it is a pity that a couple of class 442 cab cars couldn't be procured and converted to DBSOs to eliminate wasted van space, but two years on from withdrawal and they all appear to have a future.

There were a few exceptions. IIRC some of the Oxley based Mk2 rakes had a BSO at the country end. When the daily Cambrian service restarted using class 37/4s I think the Country end portion was split off at Shrewsbury and the BSO was used as the working brakevan, whilst the remainder of the stock returned ECS to Oxley. Same process repeated in the morning in reverse, although I have a feeling that train might have combined at Wolverhampton instead of Shrewsbury. Perhaps someone more clued up can confirm ?

I wouldn't totally rule one out but I think you need to consider their history. Built as express passenger diesels initially they enjoyed a very very brief life on the WCML two or three years maximum before shifting to heavy freight. D1-D9 were delivered between August and December 1959 with D10 appearing in February 1960. The class had moved to the Midland by 1962, passenger duties over. It is worth considering though that as these locos worked some of the WCML expresses they may well have turned up at Preston or Carlisle, and been replaced by another loco. Wouldn't rule it out. . Moving to the Midlands it was a life of freight then on. Some people speculate that you would never have a subfleet of loco working from a depot that drivers "did not sign", but that is not actually true. I can certainly recall drivers taking locos they weren't technically competent on and after all a class 44 looks very much like a 45 or a 46 to anyone whose work life was not a hobby. There were class 45s shedded at Holbeck and several depots of drivers signed the S&C including Saltley in the West Midlands. It is plausible that a Saltley driver who signed to Carlisle via Leeds could have a ropey loco at say Rotherham and "pinch" one of a lower classified freight to work forward to Carlisle. The chances of it however are very very slim.

Interesting mix of plans for the new franchise. Entire(ish) fleet replacement by 2023 142 and 143, 150, 158, 175 all replaced 230s on the Wrexham-Bidston line Mk4s replacing Mk3s although no mention of what goes on either end. Keep existing Mk3 DVTs or Mk4 DVTs, 67s or 68s maybe ? As with Northern currently, TPE very soon and Anglia next year there will be masses of training required plus bedding in of new trains and ironing out teething troubles

Ahh. so you will want one to haul coal up and down Staffordshire hills then Andy !!!

Well yes !!!! I would like just a couple of maroon thirds and maybe a first or composite to augment a maroon Mk1 rake as required. Certainly don't intend to purchase a brake end. Wonder how many others have similar intentions. Bachmann would do well to at least double if not triple the quantity of thirds compared to firsts and brakevans in my view. I asked the Bachmann gentlemen at DEMU yesterday about maroon "portholes" and got the answer "November to January". Similarly I am seeking a single Bachmann maroon Thompson to augment a rake of maroon Mk1s but won't be needing a brake vehicle.

Aft After the Birmingham fleetline in whichever guise. There are routemasters already but there ain't a Brummie fleetline !!!

IMHO The conversion of a 24 bodyshell into a 25 is not acceptable. Although the bodyside air intakes are in the same positions (apart from the eighth on some) the actual fittings are different, The class 24 louvres are cast metal and stand out from the bodyshell whereas the 25s are fabricated and are a different shape and profile. This alone would prevent me from taking a knife to a class 24 bodyshell for this purpose. Zoom into the image in this link https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:No.D5185_Castell_Dinas_Bran_(Class_25)_(6779271791).jpg then compare the filter boxes to thew cast metal version on the 24 and you will notice the difference. Whilst on this subject note that dual braked 25s had the air intake filter boxes modified to hinge outwards, on one side - the opposite side to that sahown in the linked image. This modification saw a piano hinge fitted to the filter boxes, and metal straps to retain them closed.

Great to catch up with Fryers Lane today and the chap behind it all. Didn't intially recognise Mark with all that facial hair but great to have a chat. Mark has certainly but masses of thought into Fryers Lane and the lighting is very good - enabling all that micro detail to be viewed. Well done Mr Forrest - you have achieved greatness !!!

Congratulations to the DEMU "production team" for a great exhibition. Yes it was a little warm, but us Brits always whinge about the weather. Great to see Longcarse again and to especially see Mark Forrest's Fryers Lane - something I have needed to tick off for a while. Alderford - what can I say !!! The first movement is saw was a blue class 87 clattering over the crossings onto a rake of Mk2s - with the distinctive class 87 fridge sounds. That was very nice. Then I saw a "little fishy" class 81 roaring, and a class 304 "dinosaur" also roaring. These guys really like their AC traction and I imagine the class 86 I saw will be receiving a sound decoder too. But not only did the layout sound good, it also ran very well, so big praise to Preston & District for a really nice and memorable layout. I don't want to single out anymore because DEMU really pulled a great bunch of layouts for DEMU 2018. I wasn't intending to buy anything except some transfers from, and to briefly talk to Steve on the Railtec stand. Really enjoyed DEMU 2018 and am looking forward 360ish days to the new venue