Schooner

Oideal, thanks for sharing the lead :)

@Captain Kernow Yeeeaaaah...but in' she cute?!

On 22/05/2024 at 16:58, Northroader said:

 Plymouth Millbay

Another fave. In fact there's not much of Plymouth's 1900ish rail network that is not a) fascinating b) modelable c) worth modelling :)

On 22/05/2024 at 20:12, Annie said:

Does Peco do Broad Gauge track then?

Oh no! Busted 🤣

I thought maybe the docks line could disappear down behind the station...

...and then loop around to then descend again into a second scene on the other side of the room. This would have the station and train shed as high-level backscene, exchange siding (?) in front, the the docks line descending in front of that. Assuming similar available length, a sort of splayed V format with East and West sections of the dock railway on either side, with the Southern ends of the graving docks providing the apex. Wouldn't be totally accurate, but could, I think, be usefully representative.

This level could perhaps be below a storage yard for the Branch Line services. Leaves Penryn out in the cold, but then it's Penryn and many would suggest that's the best place for it 😇

23 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

hand-hot water

Was just about to suggest similar. A near alternative: hairdryer. 

I got so fed up of mucking about with printed wagons and rapidly cooling bowls of water that I sought a more binary solution, and found something almost perfect*.

*Lack of perfection having nothing to do with performance, but the increased risk of an Intermediate Domestic!

EDIT

Powlesland and Mason, Brush-built 0-4-0 in her post-1926 Swindon pannier configuration.

One of pair, built 1903 (795) and 1906 (921) as saddletanks. Both taken on by the GWR in 1924, after which they both underwent significant work. Both sold to industry by 1930...

...and worked for another c.30 years (IIUC). 795 then went for scrap, but 921 has been preserved:

Now on static display at Mountsorrel and Rothley Heritage Centre, Leicestershire.

With a dash of modeller's licence, PI could perhaps reasonably reproduce these fascinating locos, part absolutely typical part absolutely unique. Would metal chassis, running plate, and boiler give enough weight for tanks and cabs to be serparate plastic parts? The former could then be universal, with only the latter changing to give an excellently useful industrial/dock locos accurate for anywhere in a 60-70 year working life.

Not a request, just a conversation starter :)

9 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

Is this the wrong place to mention a Sharp Stewart 2-4-0?

There is no wrong place to mention SS 2-4-0s, BP 0-6-0s likewise

:)

39 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

...the 517 will flop...

I do hope not!

Given the difficulties of getting 0-4-2s to run fair, IIUC, then if Dapol get the chassis right the demand for aftermarket use should he significant too.

Sadly I suspect this requires more work than Dapol could put into a second batch...but could the 15' inside bearing be on the cards?

8 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

...to convince to the trade that those of us clamouring for such products would put their money where their mouths were.

It doesn't fill my bank manager* with joy, but I do agree and am likely to buy the earliest available versions Dapol end up doing for this reason. 850 🤞!

*Who dat?

A quick lunchtime poke at FH suggests something recognisable, if a little condensed, is possible with Peco (and a couple British Finescale B7s, cos yum):

I'll start iterating next SCARM session, but all input invited and most welcome :)

On second thoughts, just a quickie to say how much I'm enjoying all this :) Nothing useful to contribute, but it's wonderful to watch and follow along.

I wonder what's holding the 14XX lot from joining the fray?

53 minutes ago, Northroader said:

(1933)

When, sorry? Is this our dinner reservation?!

The useful bits from the 1877-8 surveys are here (overview) and here (throat detail). 

Any model of mine would be focused on the terminal and the dock network, making use of the real change in elevation (significant) but probably messing with alignment. The 'nice to have's being a scenic run, a nod to Truro as junction, and the 'would like' would be Penryn, which used to have a more interesting kickback layout, if not operation, than nowadays.

:)

PS. 

Just found an old mockup of what something along the lines of Jarrix might look like if placed on the 7mm layout:

Sometimes bigger might well be better!

Sad face. Might have to have a little think about sorting out that sorry state of affairs...

1 hour ago, The White Rabbit said:

In railway terms, it might be a bit like Auntie Connie calling all green tank engines GWR panniers. Or a pre-grouping modeller using models of Friesian cows! 

I think these are apt analogies, and you're quite right. There is also the availability issue - 1:76 modellers in particular have had it pretty rough till recently, with a choice of Clyde puffer, dubious narrowboat, or scratch building. However, as new kit production changes, and the hobby itself develops*.

1 hour ago, The White Rabbit said:

I still have the scratch-aid kit project of one or two small craft (of which a Severn Trow is on the shortlist)

Huzzah! My own scratch Trow is on pause too, as life throws some other (alleged!) priorities my way.

*with less attachment to personal memory as motivator, I'm sure we'll see greater diversity, broader research and perhaps wider investment in the modelled world than is perhaps traditional in the hobby.

In other news, do we collective maritime-minded know of any model of Falmouth station/docks? A quick search has yielded no results, yet...

A printed carcass, to match the real framing, possibly even with interior panneling/detailing, which may aid rigidity, and some gel CA glue would seem a good fit?

The etches, not being structural, could then be in thinner metal, which may aid relief detail and keep vehicle weight down - potentially useful for these shorter coaches, which I won't be alone in liking for being able to run more of, with the greater number of axles and axle drag per rake. Cost also, presumably?

Just a thought, no relevent experience :)

Ah, but 'only' 144' in 7mm!

Sadly I don't have mine with me atm, but I think Steam Coasters and Short Sea Traders includes a chart of quantities of the various hull formats of various lengths? IIRC around 145' was the smallest common length; as c.105' (or was it 95'?) was for the small single hatch coasters. Happy to be corrected on this though :)

Re Puffers etc, I think the issue is that specific design criteria/restrictions are really obvious in the context of the average. Puffers make for jarring 'generic small coaster' because they're so closely shaped by their particular working area.

From a sailing coaster PoV, it's like trying to sell a Severn Trow or a Goole Billyboy as a 'generic coasting ketch'. They both traded outside their home areas, sure, but boldly wear their origin in almost every aspect of their design and are far too specific to be convincingly used as generic craft. Model the rule, not the exception!

Also a quick hat-tip to @The White Rabbit who often has useful contributions in this area.

@The Johnster couldn't agree more!

Sorry about the delay chaps, but better late than never.

Right, first things first. More on @Giles' Sparrow can be found here: 

and its rather charming motive power here

The other steam coaster I have my eye on is here:

https://www.mountfleetmodels.co.uk/product/ss-jarrix/

Launched at Selby (top of the Humber) in 1917, she's a little late for my tastes; but like Talacre could be reasonably and simply backdated whilst being brought up to 1:43 from the kit's native 1:48.

Schooner hull:

https://www.sarikhobbies.com/product/topsail-schooner-plan-hull-set/

She scales out at a tidy c.96' LoA, which is pretty good, and in being hull and plans only means there would be little wastage...but plenty more scratch building.

For a full kit, the best out of the box would be

https://www.mantuamodel.co.uk/products/ship-kits/panart/442/la-rose-detail

Typically French (immediately told by her roller reefing topsail, a great idea that the Brits studiously avoided), but as good as it gets I think.

On 18/05/2024 at 12:05, Asterix2012 said:

Would it work currently as a bit of perspective at the back of the layout?

In short, I don't yet know. That's sort of Plan A, but my rough mockups so far suggests the change in scale a little jarring between wagon and wessel - it's too great a change at too small a distance for me. Other layouts will vary, of course, and it would be a very effective way of adding visual depth to some scenarios.

On 18/05/2024 at 18:31, St Enodoc said:

Artitec do a very nice 1:87 kit for a typical Dutch coaster of the 1960s.

They do! But has anyone found any of their products in stock anywhere over the past couple of years? I rather fancied some of their horse-drawn stuff as false perspective givers for Ingleford.

19 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A ship designed for open sea use, even for coastal traffic, has sufficient freeboard forward to deal with fair size seas, and this is usually big enough for the crew accommodation.  It will rarely be able to 'take the hard'; sea-going ability suggests a keel prominent throughout the ship's length to give her good steerage and course-holding. and this will prevent her sitting upright on the hard.

Yes and no. Even into the '60s many Northern European coasters were built to be able to work the myriad tidal quays and ports, and did so into the 80s reasonably commonly. There were simply more markets for cheap heavy bulk goods than deep water/locked ports, and coasters were the tools used to access them.

For me a bridge, a funnel (abaft the bridge, as nature intended), rasied fore- and quarterdecks, and davit-launched boats make for a 'proper little ship', regardless of size. This format could be found for single hatch coasters down to c.95' LoA - though, as so often, normally the smaller the earlier the build date. See posts passim for why pre-Grouping is the best setting for all space starved* model railwayisers!

HTH

*So that'd be all of us then :)

On 14/04/2024 at 15:01, sem34090 said:

Not sure how operationally interesting it would be

Plenty I reckon. You've got a loop and more than one facility to play with - the rest is in the imagination :)

4 hours ago, drduncan said:

...likely to succumb to over enthusiastic roping...

Surely not, as the wagon sheet is clearly neatly folded in a corner....otherwise the rings would be rotated by 180, pulled up on their fastenings by the tension of the sheet lines, right?!

I agree, smallest (5A wire) looks best. Gently suggest small items like the hooks can be formed in the end of a longer wire to form the angle and then cut down to size...? % wastage may be high, a couple mm is still just a couple mm!

Seems like the jig is really the crucial bit. What it gets used for sounds like a problem for the customer :)

It's the Caldercraft SS Talacre kit - an RC capabale 1:48 coaster of a most useful design! As you say, nearly perfect for nearly all model railway quays. Sadly nothing comprable in 1:76 as far as I know.

As shown above it's as per the the kit, purchased as seen, but @Giles has done a typically excellent upgrade to 1:43 for his Sparrow layout:

In due course I'll be doing similar, not just to change scale (which with some sympathetic treatment is, I'd suggest, of minimal concern if it's at the back of the layout) but largely to backdate, re-detail and deal with a couple of idiosyncrasies.

I'll get back tomorrow with links to Giles' lovely layout, and FWIW to the other steam coaster (two hatch, long quarterdeck) and sailing coaster (topsail schooner, scaling out at c.90' LoD she's too big for the more versatile, if no more common, trading ketches) I was looking at as 'best fits' for these kind of layouts.

Too kind as ever @drduncan! 

State of things at the close of play at the quay:

Dried and roughly faired. Close, 'tho I need to recheck not against the photo of the 282, but against the photo of the station staff on the platform, which will give me the 'running line vibes' inspiration/information needed. I think the overall level of the ballasting should be a little lower, so the rail stands clear (to show off @Tricky's lovely trackwork!) and more of the stone texture shows through, to give contrast to the 'sidings' behind.

Some running, coupling and buffing gear for the LSWR bar wagon*. Pointwork test completed successfully, the wagon runs everywhere the 4W'lers go just as easily. This bodes well for future motive power and rolling stock options :).

A drop of paint on it, the Siphon and the wagon interiors was more statement of intent than serious attempt, but is nicer to look at than primer :)

Tissue-as-canvas for the Siphon roof was another solid 7/10 investigation. The roof still looks trashed, and I should make a new one...but the canavas treatment is pretty effective, it does hide a multitude of sins, and, if modeled with a tarp over the most obviously damaged end (not unreasonable, I think?), pretty in keeping with an end-of-life as-built early Siphon. 

*'tho I have a load of deals in mind for it. What do we think?

Down the wharf:

Capping roughly painted, and

...towpath relaid.

First crack at red for the ballast wagons, and a play with some dark washes around doors/drybrush highlights etc on the others.

This is still a learning exercise really. Come time for transfers I may well strip (service, fettle, tidy) and repaint all the wagons. At the very least will be a touch up to be closer to 'newly painted', transfers applied, and then weathered to taste. Weathering likely to be a quick wash and drybrush to highlight relief and blend the transfers, then a waft of brake dust/sandstoney powders to suit. Any suggestions welcome!

That's it for now, thanks popping by :)

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

...7'...true...gauge...

@Annie, I think you can chalk that one up as a win!

@billbedford, best wishes. Sounds like a rough old time, here's to a smooth and speedy recovery.

7 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

...raise the standard.

Steady on mate, not too much higher please - can barely see it from here as it is!

Sound plans all round. FWIW I'm finding 7mm quicker to work in (broad brush - detailing will be infinite!) than 4mm. Having both on the go at the same time actually helps me pace the work on each to avoid rushing, too.

7mm trackbed target:

https://images.ehive.com/accounts/4569/objects/images/1kh7afq_343h_l.jpg

...which seems to embed, or not, at will. It's the photo of the rebuilt 282 at Fremington.

7mm trackbed trial:

Dry above. We'll see how it looks once glued down in the morning.

I think I can concentrate long enough to paint the ironwork of one side and one end of a wagon in a single sitting; a whole wagon a session.

This being so

I...er...did 'em all.

Badly, but done :)