ITG

Hi as a relative beginner, I’d like to check my understanding on the effect of using Gaugemaster autofrogs with motorised Peco live frog points. Logic suggest to me that if using a multimeter on these points, I should see an indication of DCC voltage between the outer rail of the point, and the frog section, only in the direction the turnout is set to. And conversely, no voltage on the other rail exit? And of course vice versa when the turnout direction is changed. Its not that I have a particular problem with locos negotiating points (apart from one - see below), but on checking the one troublesome one, it then led to me checking others, and I’m not getting the results I might have expected. What would you expect to see? (Note that turnouts are modified by snipping the link underneath, and using IRJs on the two frog exit rails). That then leads me to wonder if the terminals on the autofrog device have a right/wrong way round ( ie a +ve and a -ve) or doesn’t it matter? Incidentally, one turnout, when switched to ‘turn’ is a problem for one loco - a class 08 shunter,, so a short wheelbase. It stalls at slow speed. No other loco does, and the Class 08 is fine on other points. I’m not unduly concerned as it’s highly unlikely that the Class 08 will actually venture over that point. But this particular turnout is one of those that does not give me the readings I expected. thanks for any help. Ian

There’s also the added cost to consider with N. I guess one could debate whether individual items are more expensive (as an 00 user, I’m only an N spectator) but if you use the added space with N to make the track plan more complex, that’s more track, more points, more point motors(?) , etc. Unless you were pretty disciplined in your planning, and managed to maintain lots of wide open spaces.

Probably a little obvious but does this happen when the loco is running in same direction through the point but opposite way round? Or indeed, what happens when loco runs through point in opposite direction? The answers may give some clues....... In my limited experience, and not with this loco, but when an odd loco didn’t like a point that others were ok with, (but others points and this loco combinations were ok) I found on a couple of occasions, the issue seemed to be the point was not sitting quite flat - I’d managed to lay it with a slight twist, due to untrue baseboard.

Following this thread with interest, as I will soon be attempting my first ever efforts at ballasting. I think I’ll play around with a piece of dummy track on a board first. When it comes to ballasting points, how exactly do folk keep the tie bar area clear of stray ballast? Is it possible to mask it in any way? I have underboard point motors, with a 10mm hole for the point rod movement in tiebar. Any tips for approach on that area?

That’s not my experience of Anyrail. Maybe it depends on settings, but my pieces of track, or track combinations, snap together with a visual indicator of when properly connected. I agree practice helps, and it’s not always easy to align the angles of tracks to baseboard edge. Should add that I don’t consider myself an expert, just someone who has learnt From the YouTube videos and discovery through experimentation.

Try entering Anyrail into Youtube. You’ll find several options.

Have you looked at the various Heathcote Electronics products, which could possibly be adapted to what you’re after? (No connection except etc ....) I have their simple IRDOT1, which I use to indicate occupancy on hidden loops. It works well, but better when facing a black background.

True, although I’m not sure I spotted whether it was D.C. or DCC.

I switched to electrofrog for similar reasons to yours, and chose to use Gaugemaster auto frog devices (there are other makes) which switch the polarity of the frog according to direction set. This means the whole frog is either one way or the other, but no matter how wheels pass through the frog, it is the ‘right’ polarity. Of course, using insulating breaks on the two inner exiting rails is essential.

I tried the Peco ones, on my return to this hobby, but couldn’t really get on with them. Much more expensive, but work better, I use Heathcote Electronics ones, which use a below-board servo to raise the ramp. Height, depth and duration are all modifiable. No connection except satisfied customer.

These maybe..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gasea-Adjustable-Baseboard-Levelling-Furniture/dp/B07GLRNH5Y/ref=sr_1_38?crid=2EIQS6CLFQQAU&dchild=1&keywords=adjustable+legs&qid=1605297900&sprefix=Adjustable+leg%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-38

Certainly looks good, Gordon. My own similar panel design is getting there. I did stick with using Dibond, printed by a local printer. My concerns over cleanness of holes were alleviated when I bought new drill bits! Luckily, my printer made a mistake of thinking I wanted 2 copies, so I got a spare FOC. So, I then used the surplus panel, in which my holes were much better. I did decide to go for 7mm holes, mainly because I found centring the LED in 6.5mm holes tricky, without it compromising/fouling the insertion of the bezel from above. There was more room for error in 7mm holes! I haven’t yet inserted the bezels, so may have to use glue as you say. I agree though there was a snugger fit in 6.5mm, so I may still try that when I construct the second panel. ( the first panel is for the layout/storage roads, the second being the terminus station, itself still under construction) My printer has offered - at a cost - drilling the holes as part of the printing process, so even that may be an option. I also need holes for push-buttons for uncouplers.

Your space is similar to that which I use. I too am a returner after a loooong gap. my railway room has freestanding bookcases and cupboards below the track. The boards are 600mm wide all round the room, but with a diagonal board across the doorway access area. One thing to consider is the height you want the boards to be at, which may be a different height to the cupboards below. My board is at 1150mm. I faced the problem that my cupboards were not all the same height in the first place, and all really too low. So I bought laser cut baseboards, with legs which I only mounted along the front edge, board sizes being worked out to allow access for opening cupboard doors without fouling these legs. The rear edge of the boards were mounted on wall battens, and I used adjustable kitchen unit (short) legs to give support in mid-board areas, which stand on top of the cupboard units. The above gives a very stable board, and I still have space to access if I needed to get under the board. Tricky but doable for many purposes. If all else fails, one advantage of having cupboards and cases intermittently spaced around the room, is that if I really had an under board access need, I can shuffle the cupboards out or sideways.

Best practice is to not rely on railjoiners for electrical continuity, but instead use multiple power connections to the track. Many folk don’t do that, and say they haven’t been let down, but if you feel the rail joiners are sloppy, you’d be advised to build in the extra contingency of multiple power feeds. Even every piece of track, which is what I’ve done. That said, I’ve found new rail joiners generally a reasonably good fit, apart from previously used ones! Not sure about your points difference, but spec has changed slightly over the years, I’ve been told.

Are they crossings or single/double slips in the station throat? If the former, an arriving train can only access a single platform and would then need to run wrong road to depart.

Thanks all for your help. Taking everything into account, there are 2 problems to solve (the distorted tie bar hole and the lack of spring on the blades), so I’ve decided to replace the points. I was concerned that investing in a PL12 base, or a motor with inbuilt spring, may not resolve the tie bar issue. And using either brass tube or an offset hole wouldn’t address the spring issue. I also have to bear in mind my experience and skill levels if I attempted some of the suggested tasks. At least if I replace the point, the existing motor and pin, and connected wiring, can all remain in place. I plan to hopefully trim the chairs on the pieces of track adjacent to these damaged point, slide the rail joiners along, to allow the point to be lifted (after snipping the soldered droppers off). Then reverse that process to insert the new points. Costly, but certainty, I hope. Mind you, in these current times, I’ve had to search for Peco electrofrog points, but found the 4 I need, from 3 different sources. Thanks once again.

The damaged points are all in either a goods yard or loco shed area, so will get traffic in both directions. I thought about maybe an above-board mounted motor, to use the tie bar end. But, that may also incur extra time/expense, either with a different motor, or finding ways to hide the motor, in what is a fairly track-congested area. Im not sure that either solution will address the sloppy spring problem.

Thanks for the interest. Photo 1 shows probably the worst damage, the shaft is now not in place, but you can see the blades are not fitting firm against the rail. Photo 2 point still has the shaft in place, but the hole is clearly misshapen. I’m so annoyed with myself, but I suppose it’s all learning! It’s difficult to get a close-up that clearly shows the problem.

Hi, I’ve been laying some 20 Streamline electro frog points of various sizes/shapes, with below-board solenoid motors. I chose to fit the shaft from motor upwards through the pivot ‘tie bar’ of the point, and then to trim it to correct length afterwards (possibly a mistake). I thought I could use an electric multi-tool, with a miniature cutting disc. On most of the points, that was fine, but on 4 I realised afterwards that the angle I held the cutting disc at, had damaged the tie bar. The hole through which the shaft fits is now no longer a ‘round’ fit, so the shaft moves within it. Also, the spring which ‘clicks’ the blades into place now has too much play in the tie bar, so the movement of the blades is now sloppy. Does anyone have a solution, or experience of a fix of any kind? I am aiming for maximum reliability (aren’t we all?) so if I have to ditch the 4 points, and buy new ones - well, so be it. I should say this trimming of shafts was about the last step of track laying; the track is pinned, droppers all connected etc, so I have a not insignificant task whatever, I suspect.

It may be helpful to determine what exactly is meant by ‘short’. Is it possible to say if the problem is a section of track with no power or a section that is the incorrect polarity? In my limited experience, I’d say you have an extra isolating rail joiner which is not necessary, ie the left hand end of the lower rail on the track just above your ‘electrical short occurs here arrow’. Unless that short section of track has a power feed, or such a feed is of the correct polarity, that’s why a loco stops there. is there a feed there? Do you have a meter to test power to that section, and to the left and right of it? To answer specifically you question of adding a feed on the last photo, I cannot see that helping if the problem is on the track section as I described above, as your suggested solution is aimed at the wrong rail.

Yes, they are but I think maybe for pre-ordered click’n’collect only?

No, I don’t know about soldering, but I’m not sure of the advantage of doing so. It is possible to get a wire (or more if needed) in as well as the linking bar on that side. You can also split the linking bar into + (red) and - (black) so as to use a single bar for both polarities, if requiring smaller quantities of connecting wires.

Yes, great, thanks. i think it would also be useful to see examples of items gone wrong, and to understand why they are ‘wrong’ and what actions caused it.

I was thinking of a plain (railway) van or 5/7 plank wagon, or even a platelayers shed. As one who’s never weathered anything, I’d like to learn/experiment on something that is not too great a loss if it goes wrong.

Or these, which can be used for joining multi wires, (Use the linking bar) or keeping them separate. Handy advantage over choc blocks is that they don’t chew the wire strands when screwed tight, as there is a plate which tightens. https://www.amazon.co.uk/JJDD-Position-Pre-Insulated-Industrial-Instrumentation/dp/B07S3L9KVQ/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2PV0X7GMKFY4T&dchild=1&keywords=jjdd&qid=1589899070&s=diy&sprefix=Jjdd%2Cdiy%2C146&sr=1-2