justin1985

This is such an important point that has perhaps been missed in the talk of "detail". It's more about design philosophy. Perhaps a more familiar example is the way that Farish diesels routinely use sprung metal contacts to connect body mounted LEDs to chassis mounted PCBs, whereas Dapol routinely use soldered flexible wires (with plug in connectors). Farish's sprung contacts are much more reliable, as well as less hassle, but I wonder if there might be a few more steps to constructing them, compared to soldering a PCB? So Farish take a design decision that explicitly makes user maintenance easier by eliminating points of failure (wires). But it needs more thinking through at design stage, and perhaps more jigging/tooling. Kato/Lemke/Hobbytrain tend to take that a step further, integrating LEDs onto the main PCB, relying on body mounted fibre-optic to take the light to the right place. So that's even further down the route of simplified assembly and user maintenance, but perhaps even more complex design work? None of that has any bearing on scale detail, but has a big impact on the users experience of the model. On the specifics of the Revolution 321 and Farish 319, the couplers are fundamentally the same design, just a little better implemented by Farish. But the whole below solebar conductive coupler seems a bit of group-think. These models are already never going to couple with other vehicles - so why persist with something designed around a traditional coupler concept? Why not go through the corridor connection, and improve the appearance of that at the same time? It looks like some some Kato Shinkansen have couplers with corridor diaphragms that move with them (https://www.plazajapan.com/4952844191825/ ) - wouldn't that be a much better basis for an electrical connector? (no need to carry wires down to bogie level, where they get in the way). Making your electrical connections through a corridor connection could allow you to arrange them vertically, and ideally even use wiper contacts, rather than wires. Justin

Thanks for this! Afraid I've barely had chance to do any modelling recently, and hardly looked at RMweb since the server failure. I think you're right that there are very few actual scenic Z layouts, at least outside of Germany ... but you can probably find most discussed at Z Freunde International: https://www.z-freunde-international.de Also, one of the most inspirational Z projects I'm aware of is actually located in New Zealand: http://zwassen.blogspot.com Unfortunately not updated in a few years, and I've not managed to make contact with him at all. Best Justin

Sorry I wasn't clear I was specifically thinking of wagons - obviously there have been some huge developments in other areas. And very clearly no intention of diminishing the work of the volunteer team. I know from comparable commitments in other areas of my interests how difficult it can be to balance the competing pressures of costs and 'public service'. This is exactly what I was thinking of. We'll all find things that we realise we could really use only after the event. Either because new research, new plans, or whatever. Not to mention new members joining in future ... Doesn't that somewhat justify slow selling things (other than those obviously obsolete or duplicated) as a kind of "communal gloat box"? Perhaps if sales of a particular etch are too poor to justify reordering, how about the artwork is offered on the same basis as the "3D file exchange"? If you saw a particular need for something that had been discontinued, you could get your own sheet made, include what you need on a sheet of your own etch design etc. Like open-sourcing the source code of an obsolete piece of software - it might take work to use it, but at least it's out there. What do you have available, Chris? I can't find any listings online.

It is starting to feel a lot like anything that Chris Higgs was involved in producing is just disappearing? I understand there has been some complications with Chris being located in the Netherlands, but surely there must be a better solution than just discontinuing all those products. All that work producing the artwork shouldn't be wasted ... I always thought one of the main advantages of an Association shop is avoiding the "get it now or miss out" approach that increasingly characterises commercial model producers. The range of products, minus Chris' designs, does really start to look like it's gone back several decades (generic or nothing). It might even start to make the scale and the Association less compelling to those just beginning ...

I had an invoice for 321s from the second batch a week or so ago now, but haven't heard anything further. I guess that means they are imminent? But perhaps not as imminent as when the first batch were when they were invoiced! Has anyone had theirs yet? Or anyone from the RevolutioN team able to give an update?

A bit more work over the weekend, and I've got a through line working - really pleased with how smoothly the stock runs through the turnouts For now the viaduct isn't fixed down - the track is glued to it, and the ends of the rails are temporarily soldered to PCB sleepers at either end. It will need to be moved to sort out the scenery behind it, but I couldn't resist completing the circuit for now!

Second set of points connected to tiebar and servo last night, and wired in. Close up photo as requested (newly connected turnout is under the Taurus, which runs through very smoothly )

I built the points by adapting the techniques for soldered track from the 2mm "Track" book, using 2mm Association code 40 flat bottom rail and narrow gauge sleepers. Unfortunately the roller gauges the Association sell suit only the code 30 rail that they sell for narrow gauge, so I bodged up some of my own by abusing some brass on my borrowed Unimat lathe, plus washers and bolts. The PCB sleepers were much shorter in height than the Z flex track bases, so I've ended up having to "shim" the point work with 3 layers of 200gsm card, while the flex track will sit direct on the ply. I'm a little worried the card might not like being ballasted over, but I did use a generous amount of Easitrac glue to seal and stick down the track, which in my experience has needed quite a bit of hot water to shift in the past. Beer can (330ml) here for scale: You can also see the under baseboard Turnout Operating Mechanism that I've bodged together from plasticard, Evergreen section, and brass tube. The switch blades have cranked shape 0.3mm nickel silver wires that fit into the 0.5mm ID brass tube. To operate the servos I decided to go with an ESU SwitchPilot 3 Servo DCC decoder. Even though I'm not using DCC on this layout! They take manual input from a row of contacts for passing contact switches, as well as DCC, and the killer feature as far as I'm concerned is the tiny OLED screen that lets you set things like servo position at each end of travel, speed, and even bounce, without needing to plug anything extra in, and make changes on the fly. Even better, they cost about £50 - cheaper than a MegaPoints equivalent, and much easier to use (in my book)! They work for up to 8 servos, so this will cover my 4 turnouts, plus a few uncouplers and a signal or two! Finally, here's a quick video of a powered loco running smoothly through both routes of the first turnout! Obviously it stops when it hits the second turnout, which isn't yet powered, as well as when it runs out of track on the other route. The old Br111 with three pole motor (fast or stop) probably wasn't the best choice to showcase Z either ... Locos with more modern 5 pole or especially the newest ones with coreless motors are MUCH smoother. Doesn't look much, but it felt like quite an achievement! Justin

Well, it's been nearly 18 months since I updated this thread, but I have been working on this project on and off ... I decided to try and make the layout as modular as possible - so as well as the removable "end caps" for the curves, I built the scenic and fiddle yard boards separately, but firmly bolted together. Hopefully the fiddle yard could be reused in any future projects (I've started collecting some Canadian prototype Z too ...) Making the fiddle yard the same width as the scenic board was probably a mistake though - even in 1.2m I couldn't fit more than 3 loops + through line before the loops became too short to be any use. The turnouts are all second hand standard Märklin, with integrated above board solenoids. These took quite a bit of fettling! Each line is switched, and I built a diode matrix to use push buttons for route setting. To my surprise, even when setting a route that needed many points to be thrown together, a standard 12v DC supply handled it absolutely fine, with no need for a CDU. The scenic section is starting to shape up, with the viaduct now following a gentle curve (I sawed through the back of the piers and added strips of plasticard to pack the gaps and make the piers take a trapezoid shape). This does highlight the lack of scenic depth though - I think I'll end up making the back scene, at least, project out, flying over some of the unused depth of the fiddle yard board just so it doesn't end up looking too flat. I've just finished building the turnouts using code 40 rail and 2mm narrow gauge sleepers. Will write a separate post for them! Justin

Is there any significance to the change of address? Now both editorial and subscriptions c/o Elgar Books, Huddersfield. It doesn't seem long ago that the address changed from Didcot to Bath. I remember some chatter about the proprietors (Paul Karu?) wanting to retire from it at some point, around the time the 8 issue subscription option was removed. Perhaps the new address signals some changes on this front?

What is the resin 'recipe' you've used for these? Looks like a very effective self coloured black (?) and flexible as well would be great! I've still never actually tried mixing different resins ...

I'd love to hear more about this! Using a blade type arrangement? Or a milling cutter? CNC milling plasticard does seem like quite a good idea for cutting plastic (cut right through any thickness), but I don't think I've seen it done very much? Most tutorials etc on 3018 type machines seem to be for milling PCB designs.

I've just looked this up, and I must have been mistaken in my previous post. It wasn't Mick Simpson who wrote up the curving technique at all. The relevant articles are by Geoff Jones, 'Curved turnouts for pegged chairs' in the June 2016 2mm Magazine, and by Rod McCall in the August 2016 issue. Basically Geoff's method is to cut out a large part of the web between sleepers on the outside of the curve, on between alternating pairs of sleepers (i.e. solid web, sleeper, web cut away to centre line, sleeper, solid web ... ) Rod's method perhaps a bit simpler - simply cutting a single cut almost all of the way from outside to inside of curve in the web between alternating pairs of sleepers. (i.e. leaving most of the web in place, just cutting but leave a tab to keep everything intact) This blog from the 2mm Kent and Essex Area Group illustrates the two methods pretty well https://2mmkeag.blogspot.com/2021/06/june-2021-meeting.html I don't see any reason why this method wouldn't work with Finetrax as well?

Answering my own question here - I stuck an unpainted one of the Dapol 20t mineral opens onto an order for some other bits from Hattons. To my surprise, it scales out well against the BR diagram book posted by the Barrowmore MRC. Also, the under frame is much finer than I was expecting, and could probably easily get away with just new wheels. Perhaps especially in its unpainted state, the relief on the door opening hinges etc does look a bit shallow. Prototype length over headstocks: 21'6" (43mm at 2mm/ft) Dapol length over headstocks: 44.3mm Prototype overall width: 8' 7 5/6" (c.17mm) Dapol overall width: 17.6mm So, pretty good for 1:152! I think the pre-war Stephenson Clarke wagon here is a slight bit shorter above the doors, but the end door style matches - certainly close enough! https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/stephenson-clarke-se-20t-steel-open-25503-two-doors-each-side.html

I'm planning to start working on a few more designs for decals for private owner wagons, and quite fancy doing some for the ubiquitous Stephenson Clarke ("SC"). Browsing the HMRS photo albums, I noticed some quite attractive steel opens: https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/stephenson-clarke-se-20t-steel-open-s-e-3051-prestomet-prevents-rust-on-side-name-address-on-end.html These look very similar in design to the Dapol "20t mineral" that they've released in endless liveries including "Bolsover", which does at least look to be prototypical. (why are so many of their releases of this type weathered like an explosion at a sewage works?). https://www.Dapol.co.uk/shop/n-gauge/wagons-amp-freight/20t-mineral-wagon I seem to remember those Dapol wagons were part of a series that were "shrink-ray"ed from their OO range, which originated as Wrenn, or some other prehistoric range? The gunpowder van is quite strangely proportioned ... How does the Dapol 20t mineral scale out? If it isn't too strangely proportioned, is there a 2mm etched chassis that is a good fit? The Parkside (now PECO) kit for the GWR steel loco coal wagon also looks vaguely similar, but has a very different looking end door and very chunky top rail ... Cheers Justin

Thanks for all the replies. The wagon stripped with Dettol (Märklin) did clean up well in the end, so I'm not sure if the stickiness was melting plastic, or perhaps one of the components of the original paint that wasn't being dissolved as well as the pigments etc? That is a good tip for renumbers! I wonder if the same is true with Bachmann/Farish printed sector logos etc? Perhaps with all these changes it is time to bite the bullet and buy commercial plastic safe paint strippers? Modelling ones do seem very expensive though! Has anyone been brave enough to try decorating type paint strippers on plastic models? They do at least seem to be a bit more transparent about their active ingredients ... J

Really great to see these made available again! Good range of liveries covering the whole country, including Scotland, which is kinna rare with most PO wagons in N. The original releases were very heavily skewed towards colliery wagons, so good to see a balance of traders and collieries. Price is noticeably higher than before, but not exactly out of step with Farish, especially considering this is a distinctly better moulding. Rails are really carving out a niche for themselves as commissioning and supporting small supplier models in N. See also Cavalex PGAs and Sonic J50s. Seems a great solution all round! J

I'd like to install some proper fume extraction in the space I use for modelling, but don't really know where to start with ductwork and fans. The space I use is an integral garage, entirely within the footprint of my terraced house - the only outside "wall" is the wooden up and over garage door itself (which is very seldom opened and now hard to open, making it even more seldom opened ...) with very minimal brick columns either side (one a party wall, the other wall with the hallway/porch). Therefore, it seems like some kind of temporary, or at least temporarily movable, connection through a hole in the door itself will be the only option? A complication is the fact that my workbench, and where I tend to have other machines etc set up, is at the furthest end of the garage from the external door. That is where the electrical sockets are all located, there is much better lighting, and it is relatively safe from dust that inevitably blows in around the up and over door, despite draught excluders. So I'd prefer to have some kind of ductwork rigged down much of the length of the garage - otherwise I'd have to rig up another workstation of some kind, with electrical supply and lighting, at the far end. I've got an airbrush (which I either try to use outdoors when the weather is good enough, or only briefly, using a 3M respirator before ducking out of the garage while things settle) as well as a resin based 3D printer (which stinks quite badly when running) and now also a small diode based laser cutter (only really used to cut small amounts of card etc so far, but would like to cut more acrylic etc, which would release even more harmful fumes). So I'm looking for a flexible extraction system that could work for all of these. What should I be looking to get? Especially in terms of diameter of ducting, type of ducting, and power of fan? I imagine I'm looking for some kind of slot in/slot out fitting to mount on the door, with one of those flappy outdoor covers (hopefully available in brown to match the wood) - would the type sold for tumble dryers be good for this side of it? If I did want to run the ducting from the "workbench" end of the room down to the external door, I imagine I'd need some combination of rigid ducting (steel?) for the long part of the run, and something flexible to connect both ends. I imagine the flexible ducting varies quite a bit in quality - what to look for? And I imagine I'd need an inline fan - presumably one in the back of a hobby grade portable spray booth type thing (or repurposed kitchen extractor) isn't going to be much use at all if there is any kind of distance to cover? What kind of power / spec would you need for it to be effective at shifting paint fumes or smoke from a laser etc? Many thanks for any tips! Justin

Good question! I asked in May 2020 and was directed to this page, last updated in 2018, which seems to say it is still £82, but also told "the Membership Secretary will be in touch with you when the time is right" to confirm.

Very nice indeed! It seems to look like each system only works (/can be configured/programmed) with the specific DCC controllers from those manufacturers though? (or is that just what they want you to think ... )

Interesting. I like the concept - especially the point switches with physical paddles to switch! It looks like Osborns still sell some new components of the system, pricey though! https://www.osbornsmodels.com/fleischmann-control-systems-316-c.asp Discontinued but still available direct at Fleischmann.de https://www.fleischmann.de/en/product/11838-0-0-0-0-0-0-006001012-0/products.html I've got a vague memory of seeing another system that had little interlocking square tiles that really looked like a "real" powerbox panel. Any ideas who made that?

I built one of the kit versions of these a while back, just to try them out really. Don't recall them being too difficult - so long as you've got a small enough soldering iron bit. If you're tidy with your soldering, it might even be possible to improve on the rather chunky black plastic back-box that clips over the LEDs once you've soldered the connections?

Thanks Klaus. I did figure that whatever material is used to make it into a putty will inevitably make it less heavy than lead formed into a solid - but the trade off sounds like being easier to push into the shape required. I've ordered both the putty and some thin lead shim from eBay, and will experiment. My first attempt at the J72 was long enough ago (10+ years, probably) that eBay and Amazon weren't yet such great sources of the random things you wouldn't otherwise know where to find! Never having fished, I never would have thought of fishing gear shops as a source of lead or tungsten ... but it turns out most of the eBay listings of suitable sizes/quantities of both are in that category.

Thanks again all. Very helpful. I think on the first attempt the lead was especially inefficient in filling the space - if I recall correctly I'd asked my dad if he had any lead around that I could use, and he just cut open a shotgun cartridge and gave me the literal shot! That sounds like a very convenient idea. I had just noticed that looking for lead in small and thin enough packs to work with, most was coming up from eBay's fishing section ... The tungsten putty looks like about £5 per 20g pack - expensive per gram, but hardly the end of the world when we're talking about the amount of space inside a 2mm loco

Very good point - taken. Thanks chaps. I think I'd got the idea from Bill Blackburn's approach in some part finished J15s I acquired with Long Melford (which haven't progressed any further ...). I definitely see the disadvantages though. On the original J72 boiler (which does definitely need to be replaced - holes really are all over the place) I used quite coarse lead shot, and covered the open end with I think Evostick. It rattles like a maraca! I'm pretty sure I'd heard the horror stories about PVA and lead. Any other suggestions for fixing lead inside the tube? Would flooding lead shot with cheap cyano be sensible?