hmrspaul

The photographs that TMC has loaded without my copyright permission show the black ends clearly. Paul Bartlett

Dear Adam and Mike. Wow that was quick! I have seen 6 wheel sludge tenders http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e1d59259f http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e1e195909 but had not known of the 8 wheel versions! Thanks Paul Bartlett

Off topic, but what is that vehicle against the buffer stop on the front line? It is bogied, short and I thought a brake tender. But all except the earliest type (as page 61 upper picture in Larkin, David (1975) BR Standard freight wagons A pictorial survey. Bradford Barton Ltd, Cornwall ISBN 0 85153 240 3, 64 pages) have a curved top. Those early ones do have a flat top, but I don't think that LNER coach bogies would show the sides of the axleboxes so clearly (and they had a shorter flat top than this appears to have). Also what are those 'things' extending upwards from the side sheeting? By the way a lovely photograph, t'is a pity it appears to be undated. The van train is wonderfully varied - even one with a white roof! I wasn't taken to Warrington Old Junction until the early 1980s and it remained a very interesting yard at least into the late 80s. Paul Bartlett

Michael a nice photographs of the Chas Roberts built tipplers for British Steel. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bscotippler/h359531a7#h359531a7 Very recently it has been pointed out that they were carrying coal to Corby and not iron ore. Bachmann have modelled these. Paul Bartlett

The reference to this is Slinn J N & Clarke B K (1987) GWR Siphons pub. by HMRS 122 pages. ISBN 0 902835 10 6 A revision is currently being worked on by John Lewis. The first edition discusses bogies, brandings and condemnation dates. Paul Bartlett

Some prototype inspiration here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon especially for those interested in the blue period. Paul Bartlett

Thanks, that is an interesting and very plausible explanation. I cannot recollect ever hearing any explanation for these boxes, which do not appear on the colour plate in the Corporate identity manual. Do you have a reference to where this was found in the NRM as I would be interested to see it - and only live 10 minutes walk from their library? As you say Gent E (1999) British Railways Brake vans and ballast ploughs. Pub. By HMRS 92pp. ISBN 0 – 902835 – 16 –5. should be referred to for brake van liveries. Paul Bartlett

I think my collection of these new bodied MDOs http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber is of more general interest in showing how mineral wagons 'weathered'. Therefore give some guidance on the earlier mineral wagons, which were not photographed too much in their early days. They remain in quite good condition for several years, but once rusting starts it appears quite rapid, so that it can end up like . The Derwenthaugh photos are interesting, not least in that the numbers are so different, whereas they appear to be newly released to traffic. But some are quite difficult to explain, such as this 7 year old wagon http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber/h1acbc71e#h1acbc71e which has the area over the number panel apparently completely rusty, whereas the remainder of the body is in goodish condition (and the frame remarkably clean). I must admit I think trying to reproduce weathering on mineral wagons in their first few years of life is quite difficult. On interiors, these wagons may have been painted internally when new, I suggest this because of the appearance of this wagon http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mdorebuiltrenumber/hd4335a5#hd4335a5 and the many around it (which except for the one in the right foreground all appear from the narrow capping strip to be rebodied MDO). Description and drawings of the rebodied 21 ton mineral wagons were published as Larkin, David & Mann, Trevor (1983) British Railways 21 ton Mineral Wagons - the rebuilding programme. Model Railway Constructor vol. 50 (part 596) pp 708 - 711 & 697. Drawings - Double door welded rebody; single door welded rebody. The earlier unrebuilt were in Larkin, David & Mann, Trevor (1983) British Railways 21 ton Mineral Wagons. Model Railway Constructor vol. 50 (part 595) pp 637 - 641. Drawings - Welded double door diag. 1/107; Riveted double door diag. 110; VB double door with SAB diag. 1/120 and manual load diag. 1/119 Paul Bartlett

If you mean the square box to the right of the left hand number box then these were rarely used - they seem to have been for some sort of route information; they occasionally had a number in them. It was not for XP which was used for all piped vans as well as the rare vacuum braked ones. Do not overlook all freight stock was freight stock red for a few years after the introduction of the corporate image in 1964. Paul Bartlett

And two of the photographs are included without copyright clearance. They are not my slides, but I have control of them on the understanding they can only be used commercially - ie not banded about on the net. One on their site has clearly been scanned from a publication which acknowledged the copyright, the other I have not been able to trace - I suspect supplied to Bachmann for their internal use. The response when I asked TMC about this was "We found these pictures somewhere on the net and there was no copyright either on the website or the picture itself so they are free to use. To have a chance of being copyright they should have been watermarked or clearly stated on the site as being copyright images. " When I asked for a link (Google searching does not find them apart from on TMC site, but searching for horse box is very difficult) they did not reply. Paul Bartlett

OR you could take the same attitude as TMC did very recently when I pointed out that they did not have copyright release for a photograph they use on their websites. "We found these pictures somewhere on the net and there was no copyright either on the website or the picture itself so they are free to use. To have a chance of being copyright they should have been watermarked or clearly stated on the site as being copyright images. " As I have the original slide beside me (it is not one of mine) I don't know how they got this apart from via a magazine which has published with a clear copyright acknowledgement. Paul Bartlett PS - don't take this advice! Paul

I had not seen this thread before, and admit I have not examined all of it. However, remarkably, it fits with a query I have doing some proof reading. Unfortunately the number is not readable. Would any of the blue, small logo, locos as shown in this thread have been converted by 1971 (pair of headlights replacing the single indicator?). When was this conversion introduced - all in this posting appear to be early 1980s. Thanks for any help. Some of my class 37 photographs are at http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclass37 Rather fortunately I can usually see a 37 when I walk into town - DRS often park one at York station. Paul Bartlett

All three of the first release are now shown on their site. Original of 38-350 here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/baa/h3fd64b28#h3fd64b28 Original of 38-351 at http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/baa/h3fd64b28#h3b8f931d I cannot read the number of 352. Paul Bartlett

.... which includes perhaps my favourite wagon photograph http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/p940006411/h1bb29b92#h1bb29b92 The unusual Conflat B as an ex Flat ED with ex Birds Eye containers repainted and numbered for Macfisheries ... and then one of them is experimental moulded plastic. Paul Bartlett

Some photographs at various locations here. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/boctank The Norwich photographs show that these could be found in small numbers at local yards, with unloading to specialist road trailers. Useful for modellers. Paul Bartlett

Michael There are a few photographs of what could be the prototype for this (although I accept it is an early hybrid model) on my site, including http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/h2a4d3eef#h2a4d3eef and http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbogiebolster/h295c4d4b#h295c4d4b [which is in the 1964 livery as BR was short of steel carrying wagons and revamped a lot of quite old wagons, of course well before the end of steam!] - look at the home collection these are in . Notice that only one bogie is braked, so the brake lever is on the right hand end on one side and left on the other - I suspect this goes back to the earlier MR wagons (several of which are in the same collection and lasted to be used for the St. Pancras electrification) which had a handwheel operated brake at one end only. Paul Bartlett

Plenty of the diagram 500 vans here - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan500 . Gent E (1999) British Railways Brake vans and ballast ploughs. Pub. By HMRS 92pp. ISBN 0 – 902835 – 16 –5. describes them, including they were vacuum braked. [As others have mentioned BR stopped using VB for most brake vans and built vacuum pipe instead]. Paul Bartlett

The markings under the tare weight indicate the year of paint/repaint. There were a short series of different symbols, so they repeat. I believe it started with the LMS. I must admit I have never noticed the large black patches on the end of a mineral before. As to Michael's request about how to get BR 1950s grey. I await responses with interest as I don't know, the few advices I have seen and some I have followed up I haven't agreed with. A very elusive colour and not in any of the railway paint collections. Paul Bartlett

Brian Late reply as I've been away. In all my complaining about 'losing' my "Microsoft picture it" I was put on to Irfanview. It has many uses, including the ability to select entire files of photographs and resize them to a suitable width. Free download at http://www.irfanview.com/ If you are interested I should be able to explain how to do it, although it is quite straightforward. Regards Paul Bartlett

You are correct the modern Airfix boxes did have this wrong - the 2 dozen mostly unopened ones I have are like that. But the real Airfix was in a plastic bag and cost 2 shillings. As to the diagonal marking I have had a look through my photo site (only part) and have managed to find a couple where the BR instruction was not followed and the stripe goes to the top corner, so 1 in 20 or 30 is possibly acceptable - although I suggest only after repainting from the first livery application. Paul Bartlett

What was wrong with the Airfix instructions? The ones I have in front of me are accurate for one style of early lettering - http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e3fb3840d Of course there were many alternative ways of applying lettering. The Airfix instructions also correctly show the diagonal line aligning with the top of the hinge of the end door, and not the top corner - unlike some in your photographs and several other models illustrated in this topic. As is well known, Airfix mistakenly fitted brake rigging to both sides of the wagon, but did not model paired independent brake V hangers. Paul Bartlett

Merf Sorry, I think it is me that has confused myself and everyone else by forgetting the Mark 1s were Fisons! The tanks haven't shown up very well in any of the photographs. The coaches were air braked so I have some doubts that they would have bothered to retain the VB ones and air brake them. I am guessing but it would have been easier to have obtained some of the AB conversions which had been in use for BP or SUKO from the earlier 1980s. There is a distant photograph of the tanks here http://www.departmentals.com/photo/99907 and the one you posted early on clearly shows Bruninghaus suspension which would go along with the AB conversion. Paul Bartlett

Merfyn Thanks, but after clarifying what was wanted, this thread was about the BR train with Mark 1 coaches. So I am querying not the Fisons or Chipmans trains. BR had these tanks earlier http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/weedkillerbr but the earlier photographs in this thread show the entire train appears to have been re-equipped. We have the coach numbers, but we haven't pinned down what the tanks were. Are you suggesting the BR train was taken over by Fisons? I know it is complicated by the coach numbers being too similar 990xx vers 9990x ! They needed to alter because all of the earlier trains were vacuum braked and that was becoming redundant. Indeed between the Companies the tanks in the late 1980s were a nice reminder of both the pre monobloc design and Vacuum brake Monobloc with original suspension and brake rigging - whereas the petroleum fleets had been rebuilt as airbraked with Bruninghaus suspension (or various independent suspension units). Regards Paul Bartlett

Very interesting. The Fisons set at Mold Junction in 1986 is of note, with the red lettering on the ex BPO tank wagons. They were unchanged, without this livery in March 1985 and repainted into the green by 1988. Earlier I asked if anyone knows which tanks ran with the Mark 1 coaches in the BR set. Any answers? Thanks Paul Bartlett