65179

Yes, the imperfect but complete model is worth far more than a perfect one in our imagination!

Simon

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Simon,

 

Box removed and a new dome substituted. I'll leave the chimney for the time being.

 

Which J11? Definitely one from 1958; I have about a dozen J11s to choose from (I model what I saw as a rule), so I'll decide after more research.

 

 

 

Though ostensibly similar in appearance, these GC 'standard' tenders had numerous variations.

 

 

Bachmann supplied this type with its J11, with any evidence of water pick-up removed. 

 

 

I have to say, with a little detailing/weathering it's turned out into a better model than the one I'm making. I no longer own this, which poses an interesting question for myself. Is it more important that I make a loco rather than by obtaining a more-accurate one using (modified) RTR?

 

 

 

Bachmann provided a different tender for its (English) D11 - a self-trimmer? 

 

This example (detailed/renumbered/renamed/weathered by me, converted to EM by Ray Chessum) now runs on Retford.

 

I assume it's the same tender supplied with the firm's O4/1? 

 

I've just detailed/renumbered/weathered this example. 

 

I fitted a Bachmann tender to a Hornby D49 conversion I did as a birthday present for Ben Jones' dad. 

 

 

Lining it and detailing it.

 

 

To make an 'acceptable' 'layout' loco? 

 

 

 

K's old GC tender never came with water pick-up gear.

 

 

The pick-up wheel on a Little Engines O4/1 (not my build).

 

 

But not on Tony Geary's heroically-filthy O4/3 (actually numbered as an O4/1!). 

 

 

No gear (correctly) on this fiddled-with Hornby O1.

 

 

The J11/1 built by John Houlden - tall chimney, water pick-up gear, safety valves on a base and a tender with filled-in coal rails; discuss.......

 

All fascinating stuff in our quest for 'accuracy'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

It could no doubt be added to, but I started a thread documenting some of the variations to look out for on the Robinson 3250 and 4000 gallon tenders:

Edit: this view taken from the above thread shows what the rear of your 04/8 should look like:

(Robert Gadson Flickr image)

A circular filler (almost totally hidden by the tender flare), with the division plate closer to the tank rear, and not a truncated D filler.

Simon

33 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Simon,

 

I've found a more-suitable dome from my spares box.

 

The superfluous box can be removed, or should I add the wheel? It's supplied with the kit. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

My guess would be that you remove the box. However that might depend on whether it's a loco for the 1958 mainline or your more flexible period M&GN section. Which J11 are you doing?

Simon

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I've puzzled over the dome and chimney. 

 

Some J11/1s seemed to have a tall dome but of more angular appearance. I'll investigate further.

 

I believe most (if not all) J11s lost their water pick-up apparatus in BR days. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The angular dome of the same general form as fitted to the O4s was pretty uncommon on J11s, although there were at least one or two. Most BR J11s had a dome with a flatter top than the GC dome. This N Jordan Flickr image shows the most common BR era boiler fittings:

It took me a while to realise when doing mine that both the whistle and middle front lampiron are off centre. The whistle presumably to stay in loading gauge and the middle lamp iron to avoid the centre hinge on the valve cover.

I think @t-b-g was referring to the fact that you have modelled both the D shaped water filler with the extra box for the water pick up gear (I'm not sure whether any retained the extra box despite losing the scoop) and more importantly you've added the box that the ship's wheel fits on in front of the front coalguard. If your J11 is not scoop fitted then this definitely  needs removing as per the image above.

Simon

I do like a Pom-Pom.

Here's a pair very lost on the S&DJR!

Simon

2 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

There's not been a lot happening on my workbench of late, however back in the summer I was persuaded to start building a OO gauge loco for my eldest son as a side project.

The loco he asked me to build is an LNWR 19" goods (a.k.a. Cauliflower) from the London Road Models kit. It occurred to me that I had been keeping a set of "shot down" etches for this self-same kit in the "too hard" section of my gloat box for over a decade... and being in a position where I have five almost finished (bar final details and painting) locos sitting around, but none at the head-scratching stage, I thought it might finally be time to dig it out

Great work Nick. I've managed to avoid the temptation to model a Cauliflower as I don't think they got closer to Chorlton than Trafford Park. I was expecting to see a 4-6-0 when you mentioned 19in Goods. Was the Cauliflower the 18in? I'm not well up on LNWR types.

As you are doing 2mm and 4mm side by side builds, I believe Brassmasters have a nice kit for a ...

Simon

12 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Mike,

 

I think in fairness to N Gauge RTR manufacturers, they have to make their products robust enough to withstand, at times, 'unsympathetic' handling.

 

Whether the following N Gauge examples qualify (according to Tony Gee) as 'fairly small and delicate valve gear' is a moot point, though I should point out that these pictures are extremely cruel close-ups!  

 

 

Dapol's 9F.

 

 

Dapol's A3.

 

 

Dapol's A4.

 

 

Which even has a lubricator drive (something missing off many 4mm A4s). 

 

 

Dapol's B1.

 

 

Dapol's Britannia.

 

 

Farish's 76XXX.

 

 

Farish's B1.

 

 

And Farish's Austerity.

 

I'll let folk decide.

 

Outside valve gear in 2mm can be made, and made to look 'scale', but it requires the skills of master-modellers to get it right.

 

 

Modellers like Nick Mitchell (an interesting scratch-built comparison with Dapol's 9F). Astonishing!

 

 

Or the late Denys Brownlee.

 

 

And Tim Watson's P2 valve gear. Equally astonishing!

 

Modern OO has much finer valve gear/motion than in the past.

 

 

This modified Bachmann 9f shows it up well at speed. 

 

 

As does (I hope) this DJH 9F. 

 

 

And Hornby's latest 9F's motion is very impressive.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Nick's 9F isn't scratchbuilt Tony. It's a Bob Jones (Fence Houses Model Foundry) kit. The scratchbuilt bit is the working reversing gear!

Regards,

Simon

1 minute ago, Sayajirao said:

Just idly looking at various online sources, this J11 doesn't appear to have a coupling rod knuckle joint unless it is lost in the low resolution?

That's a J17 not a J11 though.

Regards,

Simon

On 09/01/2024 at 14:07, Karhedron said:

 

 

I think you are very probably right. Hard to tell for sure but they look like 6-wheelers and milk tanks were NPCCS so could be included in express passenger trains. Probably bound for one of the bottling plants in London. If there are any more details of the service, I could even hazard a guess which one.

I've seen this working before. I have a vague idea that one of David Jenkinson's books refers to an afternoon Edinburgh/Glasgow-St Pancras conveying milk tanks. One for @LNER4479 perhaps?

Simon

Great stuff Laurie!

I love the sequence: check hair and make up; ring bellcode; set route!

Simon

On 06/01/2024 at 20:47, Mol_PMB said:

I was just flicking through Essery's Midland Wagons volume 1 to check some D299 details, when it happened to fall open at page 168.

And that answered a question that had stumped me for ages and I was going to pose on this thread.

Let me introduce you to MSC Railway 5888, one of the breakdown vans used in the 1950s and early 1960s until replaced by some former GWR Toads.

 

I'm pretty sure that this is an MR D3882 weighing machine adjusting van (or S&T repairing van), of which only a handful were built.

Note that we can see through the droplight of the single door on this side, to the double doors on the opposite side as shown on the diagram in Essery.

I hope this is of interest.

 

Can anyone identify its mate, MSC 4283? That doesn't seem to be a Midland vehicle. X-shaped iron bracing and cattle-wagon style doors. Of course it may have been modified by the MSC themselves.

 

While we're on the very rare MSC vans (and I fear I'm taking this thread too far off-piste), here's the R.E.D. van 240:

I suspect this is in a different number series as I think this is a very early LMS van based on Midland practice, and therefore it wouldn't have existed when the MSC number series was below 1000.

Sadly I don't know what the van was used for, I suspect the word 'TOOL' or 'STORES' is lurking below R.E.D. behind that partly-open door!

Also partly seen here next to one of the RED coaches.

Cheers,

Mol

Apologies if this has been confirmed and I've missed it, but yes MSC 240 is an early LMS van. It's a diagram 1664 van (2544 vans built 1924-26).

Similar in many respects to MR diagram 664, but easily distinguishable by the shorter wheelbase (9 rather than 10ft) and the diagonal strapping going top left to bottom right rather than bottom left to top right on the side to the left of the door.

Regards,

Simon

You'll find more useful information searching for Tremorfa steelworks.  The Celsa steelworks was formerly Allied Steel & Wire (ASW) and is split across two sites.  This steelworks site is the one, part of which, your plan is based on at the bottom end of Tidal sidings. The 08 in the bottom of your Google Maps view is taking scrap to the scrap bay alongside the electric arc furnace building. The other site is accessed via the line disappearing off to the left. This leads to the Castle Works which is a rolling mill.

A thread on some of the wagons used over the years here:

EWS/DB era shunters here:

Link to my post with a few more 08s at Celsa:

Simon

Interesting topic. I wondered why there'd been no mention of the Dingle oil terminal, and then I realised that at least one used there, MD&HB 43, was an 0-6-0:

https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/8/picture_parade.htm

Simon

Chapter and verse on the topic here:

https://lightmoor.co.uk/books/robinson39s-locomotive-liveries-on-the-great-central-railway/L9754

Simon

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Can anyone say where in Alloa the CoOp coal siding was located?

 

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.1&lat=56.11781&lon=-3.79186&layers=168&b=1&marker=56.116,-3.793

 

My money would be on it being the north end of the sidings marked as slaughterhouse at their other end here:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.0&lat=56.12147&lon=-3.78742&layers=168&b=1&marker=56.116,-3.793

That fits with the direction that the other train is propelling in and also there is a footbridge round the curve shown on at least one of the later maps.

Edit: Railscot also has the following:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/A/Alloa_Co-op_Coal_Siding/

More helpful map here:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.6&lat=56.12091&lon=-3.78584&layers=258&b=1&marker=56.116,-3.793

Simon

36 minutes ago, iands said:

Although that's the date according to the caption details, I just wonder if that's the date the photo was copied/uploaded as BRDatabase has 47453 as scrapped/broken up in 1997.

Yes 2012 is the upload date. The photo is likely to be July 1991 at the latest when ELAND  moved from Tinsley to Old Oak Common, and it can't be much earlier than May 1991 and be in that condition.

Simon

2 hours ago, RAILWAY COTTAGES said:

It would be very interesting if someone could over lay a modern aerial photograph of Saxondale to pinpoint this precise location.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16.0&lat=53.74985&lon=-0.39582&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld

13 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

and yet, there were a fair few examples on different classes:

 

 

At the other extreme, no yellow panel at all (would it have been on the corridor connection cover?)

 

Looks like it:

(Robertcwp of this parish Flickr image)

Simon

39 minutes ago, queensquare said:

 

Spellcheck !! - although we did once do Subterranean Homesick Blues - proto rapping!

 

 

We are on YouTube - blues and Americana but no rapping!

 

Jerry

Yeah, Bob Dylan isn't really singing at the best of times, is he? 😉

I'll get my coat...

Simon

15 minutes ago, queensquare said:

I was sent to the workshop for a couple of hours this evening as kim had rapping to do so I thought I’d knock up some puddin’  and bed in the cottages. The puddin’ consists of sculptamold mixed with water, pva and a squirt of paint to give a colour that can only be described sludge!

 

Before spreading the mixture around I slipped some shiny plasticard between the boards so that I could take them apart should the need ever arise. The cottages, which straddle the join, are removable.

 

I’m still undecided about the rather nice plaster cast thatched cottage.

 

Tomorrow I’m charged with entertaining our two grandsons in the workshop whilst kim and our daughters prep our big family meal - the only day of the year I don’t do the cooking! 
Expect some high speed running on the N gauge roundy, roundy - what fun !!

 

Jerry

Looking good Jerry. I like the new vistas this is opening up. Have fun tomorrow!

Simon

11 minutes ago, queensquare said:

I was sent to the workshop for a couple of hours this evening as kim had rapping to do ...

Nice! Expanding her repertoire? Adding a bit of Snoop Dogg etc to the usual classics?

5 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

On the subject of which; I was looking at PECO's website before, and at what was listed as a Type DX open container kit, to suit the companion conflat kit; what would such a container even be used for?

Anything you might find in an open wagon that would fit in the container and not obstruct fitting of the spreader beams. Peter Tatlow's LNER Wagons 4B lists bottles, machinery, tiles, bricks, scrap tin, concrete and plaster blocks,  castings, ranges, cookers, registers, radiators, baths, earthenware, hardware, box boards, gramophone, iron and steelwork and shrubs and trees.  @jwealleans has in the past noted a photo showing one or more DX loaded with aggregate if memory serves. 

Paul Bartlett's site has some useful details for the smaller Type H container:

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brhodcontainer/h36be5370

Simon 

The overly thick valance makes the cylinder situation look worse than it is. At least the proportions suggest you won't need to convert it into this!

(Paul Kearley collection Flickr image)

Simon

Andy,

Is this a scratchbuild or an early kit? The chunky running plate/valance, sort of straight across the front and curved down rather than being a proper right angle seems to be the main issue. The portion under the smokebox should also be set back rather than in line with the bits either side.

The front, lower section of a B1 running plate also tapers inwards slightly. I can't tell to what extent it does on your model. As an aside,  I remember seeing a review of the Farish N gauge B1 saying that this taper on the model was wrong because it wasn't shown on the Roche drawing. D'oh!

Roger Smith Flickr image of 61041

The angle of the steampipes seems to be wrong too.

Simon