JN

That livery looks revolting. https://www.history.com/news/why-is-purple-considered-the-color-of-royalty

Thank you.

Freight: Class 56s (pre-ordered 074 from Cavelex) Class 58s Class 60s HAA/HBA/HCA wagons (pre-ordered some HAAs from Accurascale) Passenger: Class 141s Class 142s Class 144s Class 150s

Thank you for the information.

Fair enough. I just did not know what the question meant because I said 'Well spotted!' The person who retracted the buffers will know. Perhaps, for example, the buffers were retracted to protect the buffer shaft as far as possible. We can speculate and possibly arrive at the truth, but we would not know unless we know the reason or reasons. Thinking about my reply I should have said 'I do not know.'

Impressive. I was scrolling down and these photos caught my eye - I actually thought you had gone into forest or wood and used the tilt-shift technique of photography.

I asked my Dad if he could let me know distances and gradients for: Leeds to Goole via Wakefield Westgate and Kirkgate; Gascoigne Wood and Prince of Wales Colliery to Knottingley, Eggborough and Drax. Unfortunately, my Dad was not able to find out for me about distances and gradients from: Wakefield to Pontefract Monkhill Prince Of Wales Colliery to Pontefract Monkhill Knottingley to Eggborough, Drax and Goole However, he was able to provide me with information from Gascoigne Wood to Knottingley (in the following format MILEAGE GRADIENT SECTION): 6.00 1/100 Leeds - Ardsley 4.00 1\122 Ardsley - Wakefield 4.00 1\100 Ardsley - Wakefield 1.00 Unknown Gascoigne Wood - Sherburn-in-Elmet Junc 1.50 Level Sherburn-in-Elmet Junc - Milford Jnc 0.50 1/700 Milford Junc - Burton Salmon 0.50 1/303 Milford Junc - Burton Salmon 0.50 Level Milford Junc - Burton Salmon 0.50 Level Burton Salmon - Ferrybridge 0.25 1/223 Burton Salmon - Ferrybridge 0.50 1\516 Burton Salmon - Ferrybridge 0.25 1\223 Burton Salmon - Ferrybridge 0.50 1\516 Burton Salmon - Ferrybridge 0.50 1\225 Burton Salmon - Ferrybridge 0.50 1\229 Burton Salmon - Ferrybridge 0.50 1/123 Ferrybridge - Knottingley 2.00 1/152 Ferrybridge - Pontefract (/ = ASCENT and \ = DESCENT in the direction of travel indicated by the section) I am fine with this level of detail. I just wanted an idea of distances and gradients from point A to B not a geological history or understanding of the area. Not to dismiss the informatiion, but it's not the information which is of interest to me here or a priority for my layout. One circuit I will say is about 0.5 mile or 0.8km. More like 0.58 mile, but I prefer working with round numbers. Anyway, to best explain what I have in mind for operating trains on the layout. The one-in-seven hundred southbound gradient from Milford Junc to Burton Salmon would be one circuit of the track. When I operated my Dad's layout, for a train over Shap, he recommended drawing back on the controller twice over a full circuit to give the impression of the cumulative effect of the gradient on speed. The opposite can be done upto the maximum speed of a train or line, whichever is the lower. MGR trains which were loaded ran as 7XXX (limited to 45mph). That would be one circuit in 45 seconds. The empties would be run as 6XXX, so were able to go as fast as 60mph meaning one circuit of my layout in 30 seconds. An engineering train running as 8XXX was limited to 30mph, so one circuit in one minute. I have tried looking at the Freedom of Information request and Rail Data information, but I do not really understand either information sets. What information does one have for distances and gradients for Wakefield, Prince of Wales Colliery to Eggborough and Drax (from the relevant junctions to the power station itself) and Goole (for the Leeds - Wakefield - Goole passenger trains)? Given I will only be having one station on my layout I will simply round distances to the nearest whole circuit (just to the nearest half-mile/mile is fine). Also, if anyone has information about scheduling or speed restrictions and such, that would be appreciated useful information too. I have just found one of my minimised windows to be a PDF of a Leeds - Goole timetable. However, whilst I do not expect the times between stations to have changed very much I would prefer a timetable from 1990-1994 as that would have considered the times then not the times now - other trains and stock would have changed if not the physical distance. Below are a few photographs of the various trains which ran in the areas mentioned:

I have decided to use all the space available in my garage, so the baseboard plan is 17x6. My baseboards will be two foot deep by four/four/one/four/four foot on the long side and two feet square for the short side. In the direction of 'towards Ferrybridge/Wakefield/Leeds' from the crossover points the outer track is: Peco SL-U1188 R/H point Peco SL-U1188 R/H point Straight length 25.2cm Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Straight length 30cm Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Straight length 67.9cm Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 91.4cm Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Straight length 30cm Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 49.1cm (radius 62.5cm @ 45 degrees) Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 90.2cm Peco SL-U1189 L/H point The inside track measurements are similar. From the same point in the opposite direction: Straight length 64.8cm Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 91.4cm Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Straight length 30cm Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 91.4cm Straight length 67.9cm Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Straight length 30cm Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Curve length 44.9cm (radius 57.2cm @ 45 degrees) Peco SL-U1188 R/H point Straight length 76.4cm Peco SL-U1189 L/H point These are the preferable measurements for a good working model railway However, I am a little confused by the junction at the west end of Knottingley Station... I understand how the crossover (in the foreground) works in the layout, but I am struggling with the rest of the layout. I can make a simplified version which gives me enter/exit access to the siding. The trade off is that the signalling has become a little more complex, but the trackwok became more complex when I used a crossing (PECO SL-E194) instead of a ladder/scissor junction (I am not sure which is the correct term as I have heard both terms used in this context). I have also noticed some ground signals which would be good to get. I also forgot to mention that I plan to lay the track on cork.

I am not sure what you mean...

I have just pre-ordered 18 (3xHAA Raifreight Red Pack A and 3xHAA Raifreight Red Pack B) from Hattons (the Accurascale website did not allow me to complete the order for whatever reason). What is the best weathering paint for the wagons? I will probably be using paint brushing techniques if this changes the advice one might give. I know wagons would not be evenly weathered and I have seen many videos on different techniques, so I will start off with light weathering. Easier to add than to take away. I will also be buying some coal from Hattons (what is available from elsewhere?) to make coal loads for the wagons, so I figure I could use that to generate the colour for the weathering. I have pre-ordered the Cavelex Class 56 56074 'Kellingley Colliery' as well as the Accurascale MGRs. Anyway, below are few photos of 56074 'Kellingley Colliery' in the area and during the era I will be modelling: An impressive looking machine I am sure you will agree. Below is a short and general shopping list of things I have made decisions on and I am after. If anyone has any recommendations as to the best that would be appreciated. Class 56s and 58s locomotives Class 142s, 144s, 150s DMUs 3x left-hand bullhead points (Code 75) 1x right-hand bullhead point (Code 75) Concrete Flex track (Code 75) Bullhead Flex track (Code 75) Ballast 4 Aspect signal with right-hand 4-section feather Two-aspect starter signal Metal yellow 15mph with left-hand arrow speed restriction sign (poorly described, but I do not know how else to describe the sign) Platforms Footbridge Station signs and fence Cable trunking

Well spotted!

Some would argue Arthur Scargill is as much to blame or, if not to blame, a factor for the decimation of the coal industry. I think the removal of subsidies and having to work more expensive seams as well as declining investment were problems too. The general macroeconomic policy of managed decline from 1945 was not helpful either.

Just carrying on the discussion from the wagon thread as I think it's more appropriate here... I also feel a little more comfortable talking about me and my (future) layout etc on a thread I have started. One reason my autism is a cause of my depression (medical depression as in suicidal ideation) is because of the absolute thinking. Either I fail (fail to reach a goal) or I do not fail. I tend to obsess on that failure (that I failed) and struggle to leave the idea and change the failure (to how do I overcome this? or what do I do to do it right?). I then hide/push away/reject. This is why I have not replied to the person kindly supporting me on the wagon kit thread linked in my signature. I was tempted to go quiet and hide away when I had seen you reply. Given it was poor form then it would be poor form now. The other traits of autism play into my depression too. A lack of social interaction because I do not communicate with or understand people properly. I get law (or anything else) more as a theory than practice as I tend to obsess about niche topics (be it a railway or a train type or a particular locomotive class or translations of medieval Latin texts, English State Formation c. 600-1215) than have a broad and deep understanding of a few general topics. Part of my other problem is that I do not plan and realise there are many, many, steps between seeing a railway and operating my own layout. I seem to do things backwards. Stock to baseboards not realising that I should be looking at stock whilst I let the ballast glue dry. I imagine one has to be well organised and patient to be a good modeller. One of my support workers has told me, on occasion, I am free spirited (I think he means whimsical rather than unprepared to make a commitment). Sometimes I rush in, feet first, without thinking things through methodically. I am ordering the stock first as I am noticing longer and longer order times with quicker and quicker sell-out times with longer and longer re-stocking times for this aspect. I have always shared model railways. My uncle Tony let me operate his layout. My Mum and Dad bought me my own Hornby train set when I was younger which my Dad and I would operate (as it was around the time of rail privatisation, so I tried charging my Dad a track access charge lol). Then I would operate my Dad's layout (something I do not want to get into - I can talk about the layout, but not really the wider circumstances) and for a brief period joined a local model railway club. I even tried starting a model railway club at university with someone else, but that never got past the discussion phase. I also made airfix kits amongst other things too. However, when I recently came back to the hobby with serious intent to build my own layout (rather than spend time with other modellers as a rail enthusiast who would like a model railway eventually). Along the way, I have made the odd scratch built building. I remember watching the 2009 (Chelsea v Man Utd) Champions League final and turning one of my medication boxes into a badly proportioned container office. I did a quick search on Getty and found: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/634829096 http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/dv118036 http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/157417594 http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/93113039 I did not realise Dan Kitwood had photographed Ferrybridge. I still would prefer Christopher Furlong's photo as I have spoken to him and he has given me advice. Given he is a staffer with Getty he probably would not even know about the purchase. Although, I do like bojangles photography's photograph and it is probably more suitable for what I will be using it for. The light on Digital Vision's photo is good too. I can buy the image from Getty and have them put it on a wooden board. I had simply forgotten about: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/524523712 http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/524460712 Neither of my photos are appropriate. http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/501980100 (I am the person in the blue coat). The order I have decided to build on my baseboards is outer edge to center. This just means I am not reaching over things and, say, a signal does not get caught on a sleeve or something like that. What is the best width for a baseboard? One foot is best for focusing and being able to reach over, but two feet is best for additional scenery. The curves. I get your point. I learnt that too when I was younger. However, for what I was planning I was told wider radius curves would be better. I am conscious of the advice about minimum radius curves on longer locomotives and stock. I know the minimum is given as advice about clearance etc not an order about functionality, but that advice is given for good reason. Both can be true for different reasons depending on the layout. I also thought narrower curves would be better as the proportion of the train on a curve will be smaller. I thought; a 45d curve followed by a short straight followed by another 45d curve would be best, but others have said four consecutive 45d curves is best. Again, both can be true for different reasons depending on the layout and space etc. Obviously narrower curves for sidings, but wider curves for main lines depending on other physical features. My Godfather said the Shap climbs were built because the engineer had an aversion to building tunnels and it's normal for railways to otherwise follow the contours when possible as some deviation will be required. I would like to use the concrete sleeper flextrack (code 75, so I can use the bullhead points and they not be out of place), but I do not have an aversion to using setrack (I understand good being not good enough, but I also get not letting the best be an enemy of the good). Whilst I am comfortable with a degree of imperfection (I am building a model railway in a confined space etc) I would still like to build a layout worth showing someone who is interested in the things I do if not interested in railways. Sharing on here or operating with someone else would also be good. Basically, quality and realism. This thread is for someone else to read as well as for me to share. A sort of re-beginner's guide of how I did/do things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0SkapMBB94 A couple of videos I thought people might find of interest and/or use.

This touches on a few personal issues, but I will do my best to explain whilst also wanting to be a bit guarded. I am an avoider and this is to do with low confidence and not just to do with my modelling skills. As well as the steel wagons which went wrong I remember trying to renumber a TTA wagon. The first went well, but the second did not. I could make a new data panel by changing fonts and sizes of fonts, but things went wrong when I tried applying the waterslide transfers. I am not a very practical person. Most people who know me would probably describe me as academic. I have found a couple of videos online about making loads for plank and 16t wagons. I do not know how to make loads for a MGR wagon, but I do not think the process will be massively different. I would also have to use finer, more like powder, coal than lumpy domestic coal.

Fair point.

Thought I would follow others and share some footage of HAAs in action. Fran, whilst here posting I wanted to ask, out of interest more than a deal breaker (as I mentioned in my layout post I can run them as an empties rake), will Accurascale be make wagon loads for the HAAs? Similar to your other wagons. Like I say not a deal breaker for me, but would still be good to know either way. Sorry if this has been asked, but I have not noticed the question on this thread. Just on a more general modelling note these releases are quite serendipitous as I changed plans to build a layout based on Knottingley and not Teesside. I have also seen the promotional photographs too. Impressive. Finally, in response to Russell... Yes, HAAs and HBAs did run together pre-privitisation. I cannot say how often or how widespread, but the below photo is evidence that one train did run them together. However, I have been known to be wrong before...

Change of plan... Right, so my original plan was to create a Teesside-style layout of coal and steel trains going to a port in the early 1990s. Sort of an updated Stockton and Darlington Railway idea. Well, not much had changed. Not in principle if in practice. Many steel trains went to Tees Yard and then on to one of three steelworks, usually Lackenby, or Teesport. However, this got all a little overwhelming. I also tried triangulating which led me feeling like I was building a collection rather than modelling an area and the trains which ran through the area. Nor could I focus even on one station. Thornaby, the closed South Bank. Freight might be the raison d'etre, but the railways are not just for transporting bulk materials and fungible widgets. Anyway, as I was doing the research for the layout I was starting to realise not many coal trains. I am not surprised by this as Lackenby and Skinningrove were finishing plants. Redcar was loaded with coal and iron ore from ships. Besides whilst looking for steel trains. I was watching videos of coal trains around Burton Salmon and Milford Junc in the hope I would find a single short steel train because the sidings were too short for the Lackenby - Corby Tubeliner. Too many trains with a plethora of wagon types with a variety of locos is attractive, but can be overwhelming and cause indecision ('I need x of these and y of those, but which do I buy first?'). I found myself being indecisive about what to do and in that indecision I further lost focus. I would express it as 'bit off more than I could chew' not 'too clever by half.' Sometimes I can be the latter than the former. I actually became quite fond of the Blackburn to BSC Lackenby steel train. Such an odd train of short length, no more than 10 bogie wagons, different types and usually a 37. The port siding got too complicated. As did the other siding and I was worrying about details like the way in which the loading and unloading happened. I found myself using more and more licenses and lost my focus. I figured the port would always be more like the size of Boston Docks, Goole, Hull or Mostyn than like Immingham. Immingham is somewhere else I tried to emulate, but felt did not really work in my head. I did see https://freetrackplans.com/013-12x6-immingham.html, but the track plan did not make much sense to me. I can think creatively for other people, but I struggle to think creatively for myself. I metaphorically collapsed in an intellectual heap when looking at trains through Wakefield Kirkgate. Having then watched an early Everard Junction Mk2 video the "Keep it simple.. Within your limits... What you have space for..." advice really resonated with me. Richard is right about that. I felt a bit stupid after not being to make a BBA kit. Like with the port idea I was running before I could walk. I admit part of me was thinking cool over realistic. However, all is not lost. I have taken some of the tips from the earlier reach out and other sources. I decided to keep the main line design of a double track oval. I have enough space for fourth (inside) fifth (outside) radius curves. A complete circuit is about 10m on the outer track. I can fit a two-road siding which could store about 18 HAAs, a loco and a shunter outside the oval. To keep the electronics simple this is what I will be sticking to. Furthermore I do not feel the need for anything more. If I can prove myself capable of soldering well and the more technical side perhaps I can add sidings with headshunts later. I am not sure about a fiddle yard. This being a home layout for the garage and not YouTube or an exhibition I do not really see the point. I would also like some houses too. Chris Furlong also has a great image of Ferrybridge PS towering over Knottingley I might use as a backscene if I can buy it for personal single-use from Getty Images. I photographed the gala of Kellingley closing with him (not with him as a colleague, but with him photographing the same event). My idea is to model Knottingley during the same era. Early 1990s. I like freight. I like coal trains. I like the locos and stock and Trainload Coal branding. Something about 56s hauling HAAs looks right to me. Also, given the similar nature of the trains I only need one wagon type. I know the different liveries, but one HAA dirty with coal dust looks like any other HAA dirty with coal dust. No loco-hauled passenger services. No petrochemical traffic. No steel works traffic. Apparently up-to 75 36xHAA wagons behind a 56 or occasionally a 58 between Yorkshire Coalfield and the Aire Valley Power Stations. If simplicity is what one is after one cannot go wrong with Knottingley. Five Leeds - Wakefield - Goole trains with one train (included in the five, I think) terminating at Knottingley. I get Knottingley is not much of a through route, but I cannot find any photos or videos of Departmental trains. Surprising. Some must have been in the area. Perhaps a 31/37/47 with a few Departmental wagons. https://www.flickr.com/photos/84777395@N08/8143350381/ is a photograph which best represents my idea for the station side of my layout. From the lorry park fence to the second siding (inclusive, possibly more, but right now). I know two other lines go to the Doncaster line, but as I said before I want to keep things simple. I lose out on HSTs (Leeds - St Pancras) and I think a 47-hauled passenger service to King's Cross (appropriate for the duchy of Lancaster!), but this is a price worth paying for me especially at the moment. In terms of space I am planning assuming 15x6. My garage goes to 17x6, but the extra two foot only gives me longer straights or wider radius curves or longer sidings and possibly an extension to Knottingley MPD or a better sidings junction making the sidings bi-directional, not unidirectional, accessible. The current junction (on the Leeds line) design means I can only exit, not enter, the sidings. I just thought about cosmetics and a practice area of ballasting rather than functional (on the layout). Sort of during autumn/winter time when replenishing the coal stocks after summer at the power stations meaning all wagons are in use if not being repaired hence the empty sidings. A friend said "use your imagination." https://www.nmrs.org.uk/mines-map/coal-mining-in-the-british-isles/yorkshire-coalfield/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3esA-JldCo&t=631s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0SkapMBB94 https://www.simsig.co.uk/Media/Wiki/%2Fsimulations%2Fwestyorkshire%2FSimSigMapWYorks.pdf https://www.simsig.co.uk/Media/Wiki/%2Fsimulations%2Fwestyorkshire%2FWest Yorkshire 1991-1992 timetable notes.pdf https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:westyorkshire https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/IO_7b9c2690-4783-4c35-b4d4-8de29b7ae770/ http://www.railwaydata.co.uk/linefiles/route/?ELR=NOC (Colton Junc to Normanton line) http://www.railwaydata.co.uk/linefiles/route/?ELR=WAG1 (Wakefield to Goole line) is some information I have been using, so I can operate the trains as a driver. The links are more to do with the technical side of the railway and the economic history of the area. I like secondary and tertiary freight-dominated routes in the North of England like Mulberry Junction. I did think about places like Blackburn, Burnley (Padiham PS), Castleford, Copy Pit, Clitheroe, Mexborough, Moorethorpe, Rotherham, Swinton and Wakefield (Kirkgate). Other more general areas too. Derbyshire/Nottinghamsire, the North Wales Coast line and the Welsh Marches. I like Everard Junction, but the layout is not really my scene.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/31/451/ Apparently quite typical for odd wagons to be tripped from Milford Junction to Knottingley, but I am not sure how common for (what looks to be like) a whole rake of HAAs...

Sure. I struggle detecting humour in written form.

I was meaning the single large number of 56096. A first example for myself although one could argue everything is prototypical operation because everything has a reason for happening. I interpret this thread as unusual workings etc. The underground clip is a clip on the videos of the person.