Monkersson

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/144756-Heljan-announce-class-45-in-oo/&do=findComment&comment=4468739 Above is a link to a post I made regarding costs in producing items in the UK for the company I work for. Peco are able to manufacture items here because they always have, and have built up their business over a very long time. Anyone bringing manufacturing back to the UK faces the same basic costs as a new manufacturer, which probably explains why the new manufacturers on the scene outsource the job to China.

A 40% uplift in costs is nothing to what the costs would be if production returns to the UK, sadly

Top quality work Jerry, I really like the finish you've achieved on this, I tried to do one a couple of years back but gave up!

Another vote for Johnsons Klear (or Pledge Multi Surface Wax as its now known, you can get it from Amazon). I brush this on as a base for the decals, apply the decals then give another brushed coat. Its settles level and doesnt leave brush marks. Once fully dry (couple of hours) you can then apply the varnish - I used AK/MIG Ammo Lucky Varnish - various finishes available Another vote for Revell tins!!!! I dont use Humbrol at all these days.

I think Bachmann missed a trick with Mk3 family of units - 317 to 322 and 455/6 units in 2 to 4 car formations, plus the various conversions in the current era of the 319 to new classifications (not too up on current unit classes!) They could have capitalised on the Turbostar tooling to cover the various diesel units and the Electrostar family - although Im aware some of the bodyshells are of different lengths. These 2 families of units cover practically the whole country and must be a low hanging fruit, though the tooling would need to be carefully designed to allow slides for different window/door/cab/roofs/underframes etc and would require quite an investment and an obvious worry if they would sell well enough to justify the complex tooling. I think they would sell well, judging by comments on RMWeb alone but Im not an expert! Personally I would like to see the Mk1 AM based units

A quick Google search for Bachmann service sheets produced... http://www.lendonsmodelshop.co.uk/?button=button2&servicesheets=none Doesnt have the 416 but is a good source to have

I would wager that no matter who came in to offer a range of bullhead trackwork would be charging at least the same as Peco do - tooling cost and material cost for those tools are increasing all the time. I'd also wager that the majority of modellers (not just those on RMWeb or those who regularly buy magazines), steam or not, don't know nor care about the difference between bullhead and flatbottom rail. I like the look of it and I would use it if a layout I was planning didn't need pointwork that wasn't available, though I might take a look at the kits referred to in earlier posts for my next UK layout.

Apologies, I think predictive text took over, I meant partnered with rather than partnership! Come to think of it, it was the first time I'd seen the G&W orange scheme on a loco in reality, in the UK. I like that livery.

Slightly OT but I saw my first GA 90 the other day, in partnership with a FL orange example working a service from Coatbridge FLT, my local Lidl carpark in Whifflet, Coatbridge is right next to the line!

1-7. Please read my post again I am missing no point, there are plenty of retailers that do discount, of that I am well aware and I use some of them, and there are plenty that dont, who I also use, and on both sides there are successful and unsuccessful retailers. Many of those who are price sensitive have modelling ambitions within their means where the odd RRP item isn't going to dent their plans, not everyone has to have the latest model and multiples thereof. Retailers can charge what they want for items, above RRP or max discount (in fact a supplier setting a maximum discount is technically illegal), they should not be judged on their pricing strategy. Retailers need to make a profit, how they do that is up to them. I gave an example of my experience by a discounter. If that retailer had told me at the time of ordering that they were having supply problems and the order would be delayed, I would have been completely fine with that, given it was during the pandemic last year, but their service was terrible, constant broken promises. I've also had poor treatment from full price retailers, which is why I stick to my preferred retailers, one is a very well known discounter, and one is a very well known seller at near to full RRP. I get great service from both of them. I get great service from all the retailers I use regularly. A few posts back I mentioned my local model shop (local as in a 30 mile round trip), he has a very limited model railway selection, specialising in Air & AFV kits, but he sells paints and other consumables at full RRP. He knows what I buy and what I use it for. Recently when he starting stocking a new paint range, he offered to show me the colours when dry to see if they would be of any use to me. They where, and I bought a set of them - I bought the set he opened and tested for me, at RRP. I could have got that set £4 cheaper online, but the service, and value of that personal service, far outweighed any financial saving. Fezza could have checked Gaugemasters pricing online or in print before travelling to the shop, they are well known to sell at RRP so he really has no grounds of complaint on that front. Customer service may have let him down, it happens in a retail establishments for various reasons.

1. By your reckoning, because your professionally qualified cousin cant do basic arithmetic then that applies to everyone else thats professionally qualified? Thank you for telling me that I'm rubbish at my job when you do not know me. 2. It is well known that Farish/Bachmann/Hornby have produced excessive numbers of coaches less common than 2nd class vehicles, it is only obvious that these will still be lying around on shelves of full RRP retailers, selling these off cheap isn't going generate enough profit to allow the staff to retire to the Bahamas. 3. Again, you do not know me to make such a statement that I am price insensitive. I am time sensitive, I have a busy life, working, family, (including caring for an elderly relative) and other interests and thus I dont have the time (nor inclination) to spend on the internet searching for cheap items and filling out payment/shipping details - I'd much rather spend that time working on my layout. I buy from those shops I know and trust to provide a good service, have the goods in stock and ship in good time. They are not always the cheapest, and they are not always the most expensive. 4. This shop supposedly had a live stock system, and I tried to cancel on a few occasions only to be met with broken promises. The threat of taking action against them is what spurred on the eventual delivery. 5. Yes there are plenty of retailers who discount and ship quickly, but as I have said, I dont want to spend my leisure time on the internet filling out online forms. 6. I have been building my layout for 3 or so years, the reason I like to order the items I have used on it from selected retailers is so I have the items to hand when I get the time, or inclination, to work on my layout, which means I dont have to spend that time searching on the internet to get items at a cheap price and wait a few days for delivery - I may by then not have time to work on my layout for another couple of weeks. 7. I dont know the elasticity of demand for the model railway market, nor do I know (or care to) Gaugemasters reason for pricing their stock as they do, do you know? What ever the reasons are, it doesnt seem to be doing them any harm. There are plenty of shops, large and small who sell at or near RRP, yet all you hear is praise, because they give good service, perceived value for money. Previous posts by other posters have shown a positive, very helpful side to Gaugemaster (which is what I experienced too) , its not all about price. This can be an expensive hobby, but it is only expensive as you want it to be. Its not the manufacturers nor shops that set your personal budget, its up to the individual to set a realistic budget, based on a multitude of reasons, not all financial. If you cant have all the latest loco's or coaches etc then adjust your expectations, dont blame retailers for selling at RRP.

Whilst I am not an expert on the whole economy, I am professionally qualified and have been working with product costings from ideas sketched on a post-it note, to items on shelves for over 20 years, in various fields, I am part of a small team who turned our company from almost going under in 2009 to trading healthily and making a profit which keeps the shareholders happy when they see their dividends, and we achieved that not by decreasing our prices on our almost unchanged range, but changing the packaging, getting the product placement correct and increasing the prices, all in a price sensitive market with massive competition. So I do have a good idea of pricing in fluctuating markets. Cheap prices do not always mean higher sales. Perceived value for money drives sales. If you think the majority of the model railway market are price sensitive, tell that to the manufactures who sell out model after model, a lot of the time on pre-order. How do you know that price isn't a factor in my spending? I dont have a bottomless pocket, and even if I did, I wouldnt be spending it all on my hobbies. I put a value on what I will spend and its not always monetary. Judging by the posts on this forum of what people are buying and pre-ordering, my spend is pretty small compared to some of them. What I do value is service - and I receive that in abundance with the retailers I deal with, both in person and online. I've used a retailer that a lot of people praise highly on this forum who's prices are competitive, but I found their service abysmal, I had to chase multiple times for updates on my order. Firstly they had plenty in stock, turned out they had none, but stock would be with in in a couple of days. This went on for a month or so, same old excuses. When I eventually received my order, one of the items, supposedly new, was most definitely not. Should I have been happy to have saved £20 when I was having to chase them every couple of days to keep on top of their broken promises? Should I have been happy to have had to take time out of my schedule to post the clearly used item back to them because I saved £20? Oh and I never did get the return postage returned, despite repeated broken promises. I could have gone to one of my usual retailers, paid £20 more and received what I ordered, new, in a couple of days. To me, that is more important than saving money. I could probably have saved £150 or more building my layout by shopping around for the cheapest price, but would I have it to the stage I have it now if it did? I doubt it. The value in ordering multiple items from different lines from one retailer and having it all delivered at once is more important that saving money Going back to the subject of Gaugemaster, they are certainly doing something right by charging full RRP as they have been going strong for decades, and they certainly dont need us on a forum telling them to drop their prices in case their sales increase.

I fully understand why people moan about above inflation increases over the last few years when most people have had pay increases less than inflation, for essential items, not toy trains. By your reckoning Gaugemaster should charge less than they do because some people haven't had a pay rise matching inflation? The items they sell are luxuries, not essentials, no one needs to buy them. Maybe Gaugemaster have very high overheads, maybe they just want to sell at RRP and make as much profit as they can? Who knows, and indeed, what customer needs to know? Its none of our business. Look back at the thread on the Hornby tier system, many, many people were saying support your local model shop, even if they charge RRP. Local model shops often sell at RRP, what is the difference between them and Gaugemaster, who are also local model shop? If Gaugemaster reduced their prices by 5%, there will be people moaning that they didnt drop them 10 %. Lower prices do not always guarantee more sales. My local model shop sells at full RRP, I dont know his overheads (one man band), but one thing I do know is that rent costs in that area are huge so I imagine that accounts for a good chunk of his revenue. A lot of people are loyal to particular retailers, I know I am, and the retailers that Im loyal to provide great service which is something you cant put a price on, some items are cheaper than other shops, some things are more expensive, however I shop in those places because they generally have what I want, or can order it in quickly. I know I can get things cheaper if I shop around, but I dont have the time nor inclination to scour the internet or press adverts to see if somewhere else has the items I want even cheaper. I have used places that advertise items at a decent price but were always on back order. Whats the point in saving £20 if its never in stock?

There are plenty of shops that sell at full RRP, either because they have to in order to survive, or just plain want to. Gaugemaster have been in business for a very long time, so charging full RRP isn't harming them, if you dont like their prices, go elsewhere rather than moan about it online No connection other than an occasional satisfied customer I just cant get my head around why people moan about the price of things and expect the manufacturer/retailer to drop the prices. Are they not entitled to make a profit? Would you accept a pay cut so your workplace and sell things cheaper?

Squires are your best bet for a wide range of decent quality tools

Why would he be doing a Scottish accent? He's playing Indiana Jones, who is American

Apologies Roy, didn't actually mean to quote anyone, I'll edit my post. In this day and age we have come to expect delays and price rises from the original statements, in all markets not just model railways, and that was before Covid. There are so many facets to off-shored procurement that it is almost inevitable, although some manufacturers stick to that original price for the first releases. If say a loco is announced to be delivered in 2 years at £150 but ends up taking 3 years at £170, so be it, its not the end of the world. Just my way of thinking though.

I don't have a problem with any model railway company's communications, all we really need to know is what they are making, ball park price and when they expect it to be released, we don't need any more information. Whether they choose to bombard us with every minute detail of the production progress or tell us nothing is entirely up to them. They are making model trains, luxuries we don't need, we should be thankful that there are so many companies producing a wide and varied range of models. A manufacturers reputation should rest on the products they make, not how they communicate, or go about business, in my opinion.

They would have to create a new mould for the chassis block as it also has the bogie pivot locations cast in, and possibly, if they are planning to represent the 69 innards that are visible through the bodyside grilles, make the chassis block a narrower that the 47 block.

If I remember correctly, SLW designed the chassis block for their 24 with further variants in mind - I believe the details that can be seen through the bodyside windows on a late body 25 (which they are now producing) are present on the 24 chassis block. So if a 56 is being planned down the line, then a chassis block with cast details to represent the innards visible in a 69 will suit a 56 with no modifications

The class 69 bogie wheelbase is different to a 47. 69 is - 6'4"+7'0" (plus fractions) 47 is 7'3"+7'3" Bogie centre are also different - 69 is 37'8" vs 37' for the 47 I'd reckon that the only bits they could take from the 47 is the motor and some of the gears

Its should still be under warranty if you haven't modified the chassis in anyway, go back to your retailer, failing that Heljan

Definitely agree with you Tom, same goes that you only have to look at the froth of the market for brand new £170+ loco's! The manufacturers must be confident their products will sell, or else they simply wouldn't consider them. Fortunately there always has been a significant amount of people who must have the latest shiny thing, and multiples of it, no matter the cost.

It could therefore be argued that any model a manufacturer makes is a land/market grab as there is always the danger another company will come along with their version. I think competition is good for the hobby, but only if its a significant step up from the existing model, AS 37/55/92 meet that criteria, and I believe a newly tooled 56 from Bachmann, if it was to happen, would be a significant step up too. Its all relative to me mind you as I'm not in the market for any of the new releases as I've titillated my stock to look how I want it too (until someone makes a 304 EMU!) To me, its just business, anything that's manufactured, in any field, is at risk from competition.

Maybe Hornby approached GBRf and were turned down due to the well noted dis-array they appear to in at the moment? Maybe GBRf approached Bachmann? This wont just have been agreed yesterday when the photo's were published, it was most probably agreed months ago. Even though it hasn't been said that a 56 will follow, if it does then so what? On the Accurascale subforum people have been requesting a new 56, the Hornby model is good, but could be a lot better. I don't see how this is a land grab, Hornby don't have much history of upgrading their toolings, people have been saying the 56 (and 31) are incorrect in certain areas but no improvements so a 56 is an open goal, and if Bachmann have closed that, then good for them. Regarding the 158 and Turbostar, Bachmann didn't land grab with those, they have been in their range for a very long time. Accurascale announced a 55 & 37, which Bachmann (and Hornby) both make, and Heljan a 47 when, again, both Bachmann and Hornby make. Are those land grabs too? Its business at the end of the day, new and upgraded models are only good for us modellers