AW

Freightliner's 70009 is on hire to Colas. It's been on the Eastleigh - Hinksey - Bescot NDS circuit for a week or more.

20041 with bodyside number. No doubt that this is the loco in the earlier shot at Leicester..

I've bought MP1s for use on the layout I'm building. On my prototyping test board I originally powered the MP1 from a 12V DC supply, controlled directly by an SPDT switch. Subsequently I revised it so that it was powered straight off the DCC bus instead, again controlled directly through an SPDT switch. It's only a single motor, and not used for any length of time, but it worked just fine. It also seemed to run quieter than when powered by 12V DC. I didn't understand why, but Iain may have explained the reason for that above.

Apologies for the very belated update on this problem, reading the date of my last post it's been much longer than I thought. I've been to my mate's a few times over the last couple of months, but my time there has been focussed on more pressing matters to do with layout construction and various rolling stock issues. Anyway, on the matter in hand. Since my last post my mate has acquired a couple of new sound-fitted locos, this time (by chance) with Loksound XL decoders in them. Turns out that his Prodigy Advance has no problems reading CVs from these Loksound XLs on the program track. It returned the correct loco address consistently, albeit without any visible motor pulse. Hence the issue seems to be specific to the Advance and Zimo MX699KS (and family?) decoder. This week I did finally get the chance to try the CV112 option again with a Zimo fitted loco, this time with better prep about the value to use. No joy there though, one of his locos did at one point return the correct loco address, I thought I'd cracked it. But it only returned that value once, and in repeated tests produced a variety of other apparently random values, pretty much as it did first time round. So I'm pretty stuck here, fortunately it isn't a complete showstopper as the locos do work, and programming blind on the main seems to work - at least with values that are easily verifiable by experiment, like the loco address.

Thanks again for the additional suggestions. I had already read the decoder manual, and seen that CV112 option. I tried that, at least I think I did having had to work out the correct value for the CV to switch bit 1 on. Hard to be sure that writing it worked though, given the lack of physical response from the loco, and not being able to read it back (catch 22 again here). Anyway it had no effect on the day. I'll try this again at the next opportunity, this time programming it on the main rather than the program track. Regarding the caps, I did ask John (at YouChoos) whether there was a way to disable them temporarily, lest they may be in-the-way so to speak, using a CV setting. There is indeed a CV (153) that affects the cap behaviour, but as he points out the manual is somewhat ambiguous, and rather implies it's the amount of stored energy fed back to the motors that's being set - rather than actually reducing the energy that they store in the first place. And in regard to the general behaviour of these decoders, I couldn't find any reference to common read problems with them either - albeit that they won't be as widespread as OO gauge ones of course. John couldn't offer any fundamental reason why they couldn't be read either, although I did discover the existence of programming track boosters for the first time while Googling around the problem (their existence suggesting that decoder reading isn't as robust a process in practice as it is in theory). Prodigy controllers aren't some completely niche brand either, which is why I was hoping that my original post my uncover someone who's actually used this particular combination of decoder and controller, to see if they had the same problem. Not sure when I'll next be able to try any more experiments, probably next week at the earliest though.

Thanks to both for the responses. Further info has come to hand since my original post. My mate has acquired another loco from the same source, fitted with the same type of decoder. No real surprise that this exhibits the same behaviour, runs fine but the decoder is unreadable by the Prodigy (returning random loco address values, or more often zeros). At least that rules out an issue with the specific decoder in the first loco - not that I thought this was likely. Also it transpires the guy who sold my mate the locos was able to read from the decoders no problem, albeit using an ESU ECoS apparently. No idea whether that was reading on programming track or main, a quick look at some ECoS primer videos suggests you can use both with that controller. I phoned John at YouChoos this morning. He was as helpful as he could be without having the equipment in his hands to test. One suggestion was that a firmware update might help, if it was out of date. But of course it's hard to know what the current version is without being able to read the decoder - catch 22 there. No magic bullet I'm afraid, and we don't have the kit to do a firmware update ourselves. So the decoder(s) would have to be sent away for this. Apropos the motors. Both locos are Heljan Class 40s, with separate motors on each bogie. Googling didn't turn up any info about the specs for these motors, my original instinct was that the motors - and fairly beefy capacitors built into these decoders - might need more power than the Prodigy can deliver on a programming track. Am I understanding the resistor bodge correctly, i.e. it goes across the programming track rails so in parallel to the loco, rather than in series (i.e. between the controller and programming track)? Ultimately as neither loco and controller are mine the decision about how to proceed is not mine. But I'll feedback if there are any developments.

A mate of mine has recently acquired his first DCC (and sound) fitted loco. It's an O gauge loco, acquired second-hand, and fitted with a Zimo MX699KS decoder. He also bought a new Prodigy Advance controller a few months back. He's completely new to DCC so I'm the on-site tech support. Went round his place a week or so ago, and got the loco up and running OK. All working fine - eventually - except for one thing. We can't get the controller to read back from the decoder. We're using a dedicated program track, and I've had a meter on the track which is normally dead (as intended I believe), but does show power when the controller is asked to read data. So nothing wrong with the wiring that I can see. We've managed to write to the decoder, on the program track. No response from the loco (no motor pulse or similar), but subsequently trying the loco on the main track indicates that changing the loco address seems to be working. But it won't read. The Advance doesn't throw an error when trying to read, it just returns either a random number (when asked for the long loco address via "Adr"), or more often just 0000 for the address and 000 for any CV number I've tried. Again no physical response from the loco when attempting a read. I have a Prodigy Express of my own, so took that round, but it came up with the same result. I also took round one of my own OO gauge DCC locos plus a bit of OO track, and was able to read back from my loco just fine using my mate's Advance. Also worth noting is that the bloke that sold my mate the loco says he's had no problem reading the decoder, although he uses a different controller - although I don't know what make. Anyway, I don't think there's anything obviously wrong with the Advance, and the limited tests I've been able to do suggest that it's the specific combination of controller plus decoder that's the issue. Unfortunately he only has the one O gauge loco with a decoder at present, so I'm unable to check whether it would work with a different O gauge loco. Anyone got an idea why this combination might be problematic, or won't work? Or has anyone successfully read back from a similar O gauge decoder (whether Zimo or something similar like a Loksound XL) using a Prodigy? I'd assume that should be possible, but it would be useful to know that someone has done this.

I had the same - or a very similar - problem as the OP while showing a mate how to use his new Prodigy Advance a few days ago. One of us, probably me, contrived to inadvertently set up his only DCC enabled loco as a consist. After subsequently trying to select that loco as a loco (i.e. pressing "Loco", entering the loco id, and then "Enter) the controller repeatedly displayed "Cons" against the loco id in its display. Not something I noticed at first, but the manifestation was that the loco responded to sound requests, but would not move when requested to. After eventually spotting the unwanted "Cons" on the display it became evident that consisting was the problem, and we needed to clear the consist. Reading the manual, because I'd never used consisting before, we tried both methods to clear the unwanted consist. It was clear from the fact that the loco id was a four character id, and I'd never entered any explicit three-character consist address, that this could only be an "old style" consist. But following the instructions in the Prodigy manual to clear it did not work. At that point I started Googling, and quickly fell on this thread. Bingo, same symptoms, same controller, so I was more than a little disappointed to find no solution offered. This was a Sunday, followed by a Bank Holiday, so tech support was likely some days away. Further testing revealed that the same problem didn't manifest on my own Prodigy Express, and we could also work around it by changing the loco id, after which it would work fine on both controllers. So the problem was clearly a function of the Advance, not the loco decoder or any of its CV settings. But it needed fixing, there should always be a way to reverse a config setting on the controller, especially something as simple as a consist In the event the following day I found a very simple solution that worked for us, which I record here lest anyone else fall on this thread looking for a suggestion. It was indeed an issue with the controller, and all that was required was to remove the relevant loco id from the controller's recall list. What was happening was that because the loco id was remembered in that list as a consist any attempt to manually enter that same id simply recalled that id up as a consist. It wasn't possible to enter that same id as a loco. After deleting that unwanted recall entry from the list everything worked just fine. The deletion was done in just a few seconds as per the manual, but is here for reference... 1. Get the offending loco id up on the display (showing as "Cons" rather than "Loco"). 2. Hit the Del key, it needs to be held down for a couple of seconds and the offending id will disappear (replaced by the next one in the recall list) 3. To save this deletion pull the base unit connection out of the controller handset while switched on, it will briefly display "SVdA" before powering off. After reconnecting the handset we were able to enter the loco id (now displayed as "Loco" not "Cons"), and all was well. There may be other versions of this problem that need another solution, but this is a very simple, quick and benign method to try.

There were MGR workings from Northam Yard to Didcot PS for a short while in the mid-1970s. These were worked by 33+73 combos. They started in October 1975 according to DerbySulzers.

The red RBAs were ex VGA/VKAs. Only two were painted red (210493 and 210614). As mentioned above they were used as coupling translator wagons for Class 345 moves, typically between Litchurch Lane, Old Dalby, Bescot and Wembley. The wagons were painted red at Bescot TMD in 2016. There were a similar pair of RBAs that got (DB) stickered, but weren't repainted. Because of the unit couplings they were only ever seen in pairs, either straddling a unit or coupled to each other. However these trains also typically included a bunch of regular VGA/VKAs either side of the RBAs - used for brake force I believe. Once all the 345 work was complete these wagons effectively went into store at Bescot. The pic linked below was taken in April 2019 and shows the red pair dumped on the Down Hump: http://bescotplus.co.uk/fullsize/RBAs_Bescot5353.jpg They were subsequently moved into the Down Sorting Sidings where they've lain in store for several years, and remain to this day. On the same road are two sets of four VGA/VKAs (brake force wagons) and another pair which I assume are the unpainted RBAs. So 12 wagons in all. I can understand why Bachmann might have gone for these given their livery, but as noted earlier they're not very practical from a prototypical point of view. They ran for a short time on a restricted set of routes. You also need a pair, as they were rarely/never seen singly for the reason given above. You don't need a unit though. When moving to and from jobs the RBAs would be paired, and sandwiched between three or four VGA/VKAs either side (so typically an 8 or 10 wagon formation), usually hauled by a 66 or 67. So even without a unit it's still a fairly expensive train to model.

OO gauge A5 and three-way.

The Spring 1992 Platform 5 (info accurate to 1/12/91) shows 404 active 08s and 25 active 09s. Hence "vast majority" is way off. Just over half would be closer. A few depot allocations for those with the largest fleets at this time... Allerton 30 Bescot 26 Canton 21 Crewe 17 Eastfield 16 Knottingley 17 Laira 17 Old Oak 16 Stratford 39

Around 1992/93. One factor would have been the demise of the last types of trains (yard to yard Class 8/9 services) in which they could be conveyed. They would then require dedicated movements, which would no doubt be economically uncompetitive. http://bescotplus.co.uk/trains/08928_Bescot

I suspect they did change from Class 3s to Class 4s somewhere along the way. Ian Pell also sent me the following about the history of 4M05, which shows just such a change... ------------------------- This Parcels train ran from 1959 as "3M26 Worcester Shrub Hill to Burton-on-Trent, MX" until the 1966 -67 WTTs when it was extended to Nottingham Midland. In the 1968-69 WTT it ran to Derby Midand and in the 1969 -70 WTTs it became 4M05. At that time it's route appears to have been via New St (assumed arrived at via Selly Oak line) to Curzon Street into which it reversed and spend nearly an hour before departing via Aston, Bescot, South Staffs line to Burton and then Derby Midland. For the 1973-74 WTT it was cut back and terminated at Curzon Street, supplement dated 4/2/74. In the 1974-75 WTT it appears no more. ------------------------- While looking for something else I've also stumbled on these 1971 loco diagrams I picked up from somewhere... Bath Road Hymek Diagram 71 4M05 21.27 Worcester-Derby to New Street, then LD to Wolves 4V07 02.15 Crewe-Glos from Wolves (03.13) Bath Road Hymek Diagram 174 xxxx 18.45 Worcs-Wolves Parcels LD to Saltley then LD to Washwood Heath for 8Vxx 01.02 Washwood Heath-Gloucester These appear to be variations on those for earlier years. In the latter diagram the parcels must be 4M02 and freight is 8V52 I believe. Not sure whether these are before or after the 1971 timetable change. I have a copy of a pic - apparently dated 21/04/72 - which is a going-away view of a pair of Hymeks banking up the Lickey. The rear one has 4V07 in the south facing headcode box.

I was sent the following details by the late Ian Pell in 2010 after a discussion in the pub about the evening Hymek parcels workings through Bescot (which I'd often seen in my primary school years, along with the E3100 train mentioned above)... --------------------------------- Below I have shown the WTTs for the period May 1969 – May 1974. Hymek workings were I believe usually confined to the Worcester Shrub Hill – Wolverhampton section of the 4M02 Worcester SH – Shrewsbury working. As you can see this developed out of Manchester Mayfield working of May 1969, which was probably the original Hymek working. It may then have worked the 4V07 as a return. The LD from Shrewsbury is actually the loco attached at Wolverhampton and not the Hymek. (usual BR complicated diagram!). However, it is most probably that the loco did from time to time work through to Shrewsbury , but if it was to pick up the 4V07 there might have been be fuel issues? 4M05 is shown as I do believe Hymeks were used on this diagram when nothing else was available. There are stories of Hymeks being changed at Walsall, and of working through on the South Staffs line, but as yet no actual evidence to back these stories up. I wait in hope, rather than expectation! Certainly, Hymeks were to be seen at Dudley, on freights to Bescot Yard from the Worcester area. Any sightings, photos greatly appreciated! --------------------------------- 5 May 1969-3 May 1970 4M00 23.40 SX Pcls Bristol – Manchester Mayfield, certainly crew change, possibly loco change at Bescot 03.21. Usually via Galton Jc, Soho loop 4M02 18.38 SX Pcls Worcester Shrub Hill - Manchester Mayfield, loco change at Wolverhampton HL to electric. Bescot pass 20.39, W'ton a.20.53 d.21.08. Usually via Galton Jc, Soho loop. 4V07 02.15 SX Pcls Crewe to Gloucester, loco change at Wolverhampton HL from electric. Bescot pass 03.24, usually via Galton Jc, Soho loop. 4M05 21.20 SX Pcls Worcester Shrub Hill – Derby via South Staffs line There were also Pcls workings between Curzon St & Manchester Mayfield (4H09) direct & return (4G04). --------------------------------- 4 May 1970- 2 May 1971 4M00 00.05 MX Pcls Bristol to Manchester Mayfield , 03.26d Bescot, crew change, possible loco change to another diesel. Usually via Galton Jc, Soho loop. 4M02 18.38 SX Pcls Worcester Shrub Hill - Shrewsbury, loco change at Wolverhampton HL . Bescot pass 19.51, W'ton a.20.01. Usually via Galton Jc, Soho loop. 0M02 20.02 SX LD Bescot HS to Wolverhampton HL to work 4M02 to Shrewsbury. 4V07 02.15 Pcls Crewe to Bristol MX, loco change at Wolverhampton from electric. Bescot pass 03.24. 0Z00 23.44 LD Shrewsbury to Bescot HS, after working 18.38 Pcls from Worcester Shrub Hill 4M05 21.20 SX Pcls Worcester Shrub Hill – Derby via South Staffs line --------------------------------- 3 May 1971- 30 April 72 4M00 00.35 Pcls Gloucester Easgate - Manchester Mayfield MX, via Galton Jc, Soho loop. 4M02 18.45 Pcls Worcester Shrub Hill - Shrewsbury SX, via Galton Jc, Soho loop. 4M05 21.27 Pcls Worcester Shrub Hill - Derby MX, via South Staffs 4V07 02.15 Pcls Crewe to Bristol MX, via Galton Jc, Soho loop. --------------------------------- 1 May 1972- 6 May 1973 and 7 May 1973 – 5 May 1974 No 4M02, others still timetabled. The above indicates the movements which possibly used a Hymek in the late 60's-early 70's for Pcls traffic. I was speaking to someone yesterday and I may have exciting news of a Hymek photographed on the South Staffs, in colour, in the early 70's. I'll keep you posted. --------------------------------- Incidentally Ian did later send me a pic of a Hymek on the Cardiff - Soho Pool taken near Great Bridge.