andyman7

Blimey, can we not get quite so heated on this? When I was a train-mad kid, 56036 turned up in a 'new' livery that eventually got rolled out on to other classes. We called it large logo and it was new to us. That was all I was saying. I don't have an issue with digging out the facts but would prefer that anyone wanting to go down that route can provide sources and data. In particular, although the BR design manual and BR's approach to liveries in the 1970s was strict, there is enough evidence of local and depot deviations to suggest that things weren't quite as controlled as HQ wanted. The early wrap around yellow fronts applied to class 73s and some DMU/EMU classes were not perpetuated beyond around 1970, so I'd be very happy to see the evidence that the 1978 version was an evolution - between 1970 and 1978 there was no deviation from the standard yellow front application. adb968008 is right to say that there will have been notes and memos, but the key is actually to be able to produce or reference them - otherwise it is just more conjecture.

That's the early blue wraparound yellow used on some multiple units and locos when the yellow panel was being expanded. The logos and numbers most definitely aren't large though.........

As someone old enough to remember all this at the time.... Large logo livery was first trialled on 56036 when built in 1978. From 56084 onwards, all new class 56s began to be painted in that livery, and it began to be adapted for use on certain other classes, notably classes 37, 47 and 50. As per EddieK's post, two class 86s got an adapted version of the livery for the 1980 Rainhill Trials anniversary. Lima's class 87 was released in 1981 as 87005 in BR blue, but the following year they also did 87022 in large logo livery - I remember when it came out and there were no class 87s in that livery but the impression was that it was only a matter of time. However, sectorisation intervened which meant that from 1983, business sector liveries started to be applied and large logo blue never ended up on any class 87. The same issue affected the Hornby class 58, announced at the end of 1981 it made sense at that time to assume that when they appeared in service they would be in large logo blue but by the end of 1982 when the first one was nearing completion it - as Railfreight's flagship loco - became the first to bear Railfreight large logo. Hornby's model initially appeared with a slightly incorrect version of this based on early samples, indeed the model (R250) exists in three different versions, only the last of which has the number style correct. In all cases it was more that the model firms jumped the gun than BR changed its' mind.

The St Albans Abbey branch was branded as a paytrain when I was little so not just ER.

It's important to remember that not all models meet the same demands. The superdetailed steam models have very specific audiences that once satiated don't neccessarily come back, but the 66 is a solid seller that will bear repeated sales - it may not have lights or all the bells and whistles of the Hattons/Bachmann version but it hits the psot at the price point and with the Hornby name. The little engines - Pecketts, 48DS etc - are real fashion items. They're not really on anyone's wish list until Hornby make it and then they're a sellout, but not neccessarily sustainable for the long haul. As long as they amortise tooling and deliver to the bottom line, that's also OK.

I use both but remember The Hobby Shop also stocks a wide range of continental models so whilst they don't have quite the depth of stock for British outline they also cover ranges that most other model shops don't.

It does depend on how accurate you want to be - the Oxford Rail Mk3s are inexpensive given the level of detail but depict the loco-hauled versions of Mk3 coaches so are the wrong pattern for an HST. Hornby Blue Grey Mk3s will fit the bill as long as they're not the short ones made until the late 1990s. Lima Mk3s are also scale length, and both are based on HST Mk3 trailers. If you want to take it further, you need to work out what type of set you're depicting (East Coast, Western or Cross Country) as the formations varied slightly and in theory you should ensure that the coach numbers are appropriate for the set. But it's your railway so there's no 'right' or 'wrong' just what is right for you.

This is a good discussion but I'm not sure it's helping the OP who may not have knowledge at the level of detail being debated. I'm assuming the turntable needs 12v DC so he is right that using the 16v AC won't work. The turntable will not work with AC current, it will need a low voltage DC supply, if he is not confident and doesn't want to meake the necessary alterations to convert the 16vAC to 12v DC then the second cheap controller or even something like the old Scalextric transformer rectifier seems like an easy solution. An old Hornby R911, R912 or similar can be found for under a fiver and with the control knob set to full will work the mechanism simply by connecting the two output wires to the terminals for the turntable.

If you do that with everything you'll soon lose much more than you gain with all the extra examples of models that don't sell out that you then have to move on at a loss. I have to admit that unless it's something I really want, if I buy a new release and find it starts going for silly money I will sometimes sell it on to someone who clearly wants it more than me, and buy something else with the funds. Re the England WInners world cup stamp, the irony is that pre-decimal commemorative postage stamps (which have no postal value since decimalisation) have plummeted so much in value that you can use them as wallpaper these days.

Here's a GUV spotted in the weeds between Ipswich and London last week - I didn't clock the exact location

When this question last got asked it did seem to come down to that one rake at based at Derby which was seen sauntering off to places such as Skegness as late as 1973.

The wheels are a simple force fit onto the axles so as stated above if they are not pushed in sufficiently they will disengage from the spur gears to the motor.

They may have been Northern line in 1968 but they will have survived for use on the IoW by dint of getting an EHO ('extra heavy overhaul') in the 1970s for use on the Bakerloo line. 1938 stock was replaced on the Northern and Piccadilly lines in by the mid 70s with 1972 Mk1 and 1973 stock respectively, The best units went for EHO and then worked the Bakerloo line alongside 1972 MkII stock until 1979 when the route was split to create the Jubilee (which got the 1972 MkII stock), leaving the Bakerloo as unique users of the '38 stock. These trains were finally withdrawn in 1985 only for six units to temporarily augment the Northern Line peak service with a final overhaul creating the 'Starlight Express' units.

I'm very sorry that the branch is closing but am pleased that it means the model stocks in London will be improved. Central London is such a desert for modelling supplies that having a decently stocked model shop will make a world of difference.

The 456s were new 1989-1990 and not due repaints until around 2000. Therefore one was done for press launch purposes in 1996 and that was it. By the time they were due repaints they went straight into Southern livery.

These have been replaced in the last couple of months, they the very last stations still in full NSE colours. But there are still uite a few clues still out there, the Victoria central side platform clocks are still NSE red with branding, a few signs still survive such as at Herne Hill on the old signal box, Cholsey platform 1 I noticed last week still had NSE signs with the toothpaste stripe over-vinyled.

Both the 165/166 units and 465/466 Networkers were delivered with a 10 year paint warranty. I was working for NSE through privatisation and basically the cost of repaints ran into £000s for which there was no money so effectively normally 1 or 2 units got a new livery for PR purposes and the rest then had to wait until they cycled through works. Networkers finally began to get Connex livery only a year or two before they were kicked off the South Eastern franchise in 2003. The Southeastern managment team that came in afterwards just adapted it - indeed the Electrostar fleet has only gone into Southeastern blue livery in the last couple of years as they finally fell due for a repaint, before that they were essentially still in Connex livery. When CGEA took over Network South East South Central division, they took a few months to devise the Connex brand and at least one slam door got repainted into full NSE livery without the name as the works had no alternative spec to work to. When the MD found out phone calls were made and successive units were outshopped in grey until the new livery was finalised. The 365s, ordered druing the privatisaton process as a politcal sop to the lack of new train orders after 1992, also received full NSE livery even though they only went into service post-privatisation. Connex got round this by vinyling the lower part of the bodyside in yellow to cover up the red toothpaste stripe in a sort of hybrid livery.

What's really nuts is that peope are actually buying these at over £500. I remember a few years back when Model Railways Direct were selling them off at £57 each on sale with more than 50 in stock!

Hey, it's been fitted with Southeastern Flushglaze - a valuable upgrade

I've just read this thread all the way through and it reads like a Dad's Army script.......! The Heljan class 14 was originally a Hattons special commission and so the paperwork refers to Hattons for spares. The OP therefore contacted Hattons even though he'd bought the loco from Rails, but for whatever reason appeared to fail to convey that he was willing to pay for the spares Hattons' response didn't appear to recognise that they were referred to in the leaflet supplied with the loco as spares suppliers, and they simply declined to assist as they hadn't sold the loco rather than advising the OP of the correct course of action Er....that's it (to paraphrase Private Eye)

Keith Williams has used the RDG fares reform work for his basis. I can speak personally to advise that whatever your biases, the best people in the industry, people who really know their stuff and are not in cahoots with Grayling, Williams or any of the politicians, modelled and developed those proposals. If 'privatisation' had not effectively paralysed the normal strategic development of fares and ticketing on the railways we'd be much closer to that kind of model, and it would work. Look at London - in 1995 would anyone have guessed that you can travel anywhere you want in the city by whatever mode by touching your bank card and letting the system work out the best fare?

It's not about removing the regulatory limits but changing them. If you go into that project saying that no-one's price can increase ever, it becomes very expensive for the taxpayer. The fares reform modelling done for the industry suggests that a proper overhaul of the fares system would generate significant extra money just by better matching of trains to prices that people are willing to pay. This extra money can be used to cross-subsidise commuter fare changes because right now it is the season ticket that is the most subsidised fare. The problem is that a typical £5000 annual season ticket prices disguises the fact that the per- journey cost on a busy peak time train using standard industry factors works out at £12.50 a trip when the equivalent walk up single fare might be £25. This means that full-time workers get the subsidy but part time or zero hours workers don't. Fares reform is desperately needed to rebalance this but there is no way commuter fares are ever going to be deregulated, it just needs to evolve a bit and needs some extra cash from a reformed system to help fund it.

The reason for the proposal for an arms-length body inplace of direct Government control is precisely because elected politicians are in hock to short-termism. If you are Secretary of State you will favour a quick win that produces a good headline and little else to a long-term decision that will deliver benefit a decade after you are out of power. In theory, a stable, in-for the-long-haul company will be more focussed on making the right long-term decisions but the franchise process doesn't allow this to function. As Mike Storey has said, BR's relationship to the Treasury meant that rather than investing for the long term, the onus was very much on cost cutting, putting up fares and pricing off excess demand. Everything was done on a year-by-year basis. This is where the current structure could be adapted because since 2005 the industry has worked to 5 year Control Periods specified against a funding settlement (the 'High Level Output Statement') - if this could be coupled to a management body that wasn't actually within Government but was required to make the detailed decisions needed to deliver Government priorities, it might actually work.

Well yes, it's one of EJ's off the wall predictions, but you never know, if Lewis is ready to retire and Ferrari offer stupid money and a halfway competitive car I could see him being tempted to do a valedictory season in the Prancing Horse.....

I think they also made Airfix's paints under contract