F2Andy

I took this today, and coincidentally only just stumbled across this thread. It is a bridge abutment from a tramway in Preston - you can just see Preston station in the distance at the left. It was built some time around 1800 to link sections of the Lancaster Canal, as there was not enough money to bridge the Ribble valley. I took photos of the sections to the South over the summer, and wrote an article for Preston MRS website; you can see it here if interested: http://www.prestonanddistrictmrs.org.uk/articles/the-old-tramway/

Excellent map, thanks for sharing!

I am indeed building one - I will probably start a thread on it at some point. It is in N gauge, 3d printed cabs, on suburban coaches. Not the sort of thing I have done before, so we will see how it goes.

Thanks, I had not realised they had batteries. I guess they could not run on them for long - or more likely not at all? Were the batteries just for lighting/heating if the power went? Would the batteries be under the floor? Looks like the BDTS has some boxes down there that are not under the DTBS.

According to Wiki, the class 304 EMU pre-1980 formation was BDTS+MBS+TC+DTBS. What is the difference between BDTS and DTBS? I understand the letters to mean brake-driving-trailer-second, but I guess in one of them one letter means something else, and I should be able to tell from the order?

I know they were leased by Lloyds and Scottish, but I am not aware of any connection from them to Royal bank of Scotland.

Looking at the PWAs on Paul's site, if you go to page 4 there are some with a blue star-like symbols at the right side. This is described as the UKF symbol, but is identical to the Royal Bank of Scotland symbol. I was wondering what the connection is? For comparison, the bank symbol can be seen here.

The answer is that it depends. Without any change in scale, things will get vanishing small when they are at infinity. What you want to do is bring the point where they get vanishing small nearer to the view. How much nearer? If you want that to be 20 foot away, then every foot reduce the scale by 5% for every foot away. If you want it 100 foot away, reduce it 1% per foot. I would say it is more important to be consistent that anything else.

Sorry if I was not clear. it is specifically the name of each letter; GENKOC , ???, BRAKTY and AARKND. What is the second one called? What do those abbreviations stand for?

I am curious about what each letter is called, and Googling failed me. The TOPS code is made up of three or four characters. The first is the GENKOC - but what does that stand for? General something I guess? The second... what is that called? The third is BRAKTY; that has to be BRAKe TYpe, right? The fourth (not printed on the wagon, so and rarely seen) is AARKND. Again, what does that stand for?

Could they have used the same pipes for both filling and rinsing? It would be cheaper, require less space for wagons and no need to move wagons between operations. I cannot off hand think of a reason not to at a small creamery (at larger ones you might want to be rinsing one set of wagon whilst filling another).

Thanks for the replies. The Hattons material looks too course. It is hard to tell for sure, but the lumps look like a scale six inches or so across in N gauge. I get the impression they should be considerably smaller, perhaps up to a scale inch? I was already aware there was quite a variety in ores. However Fat Controller's link to the aerial view at Port Talbot (genius idea!) shows what a variety there is just at that location, so some flexibilityt on the colour. I just need to find a fine powder.

I am building some PTA (iron ore tippler) kits in N gauge, and want to have them laden. Can anyone recommend a good material to use to represent the ore? I am not exactly sure what the iron ore is (magnetite, hematite, something else?), plus I am red colour blind, and I am worried it will have a redness to it that I cannot see. Just to be clear, this would be the iron ore British Steel imported in the seventies.

Just curious... The first image shows the rail entrance well. The double arches over a steel girder looks rather odd. Would the steel girder be a later addition to all two tracks to enter? Also, how was the second track (nearer in that photo) accessed by workers inside?

I would recommend 7-Zip too. Its what I use it at work.

Would I be right thinking the vacuum brakes of the HTVs were not is use as the VDAs and HCO do not have vacuum pipes?

Thanks for all the replies. FatController, I have ordered that book, it looks good! Stationmaster: "AFI was fitted to wagons, it basically made no difference to the loco although the way the train brake reacted to an application and release would vary a bit." Would all vacuum braked wagon be AFI? Or could they mix, and the AFI only affected the calculation (and driving characteristic)? The number of piped vehicles in the fitted portion changed some time around then. Rivercider: "When I started in Bristol TOPS the rule was a maximum of five consecutive piped vehicles, with a minimum of two fitted vehicles (with brakes in working order) on the rear. Around 1980(?) the rule changed to max 3 piped in a row, with min 3 fitted on the rear." Good to know it is so complicated... Rivercider: "From your examples earlier, post 1980 trains 1, 2, 5, and 7 are ok running air braked. Trains 6, 8, and 11 are ok vac braked. Trains 3, 4, and 10 would need a brake van." Thanks.

I am curious about running freight trains in the 80's, and how consists were organised with respect to braking. I appreciate there has been a similar thread recently, but it does not quite answer my question. This table comes from Wiki; it is the TOPS codes for various brake types. A Air brakes B Air brakes with through vacuum pipe F Vacuum brakes with Accelerated Freight Inshot (AFI) G Vacuum brakes with AFI and through air pipe H Dual (air and vacuum) brakes with vacuum AFI O No continuous brake (unfitted) P No continuous brake, through vacuum pipe Q No continuous brake, through air pipe R No continuous brake, through air and vacuum pipes V Vacuum brakes W Vacuum brakes with through air pipe X Dual (air and vacuum) brakes Y No continuous brake (for track machines) If we suppose a loco with both air and vacuum brakes, I feel these consists would work. 1 is trivial; 2 has one wagon with through vacuum, but presumably no problem if not used; 3 and 4 have one type at the front, but the other piped through for the back. So far so good. 1 (loco)AAAA 2 (loco)ABAA 3 (loco)BBVV 4 (loco)WWAA How about these? If a wagon is dual braked, does that mean you can use as either? 5 (loco)XXAA 6 (loco)XXVV 7 (loco)AAXX 8 (loco)VVXX If some are unfitted, I guess a brakevan is required, but does it depend on the overall weight and combining braking power? Assuming the latter, are these possible? Or do you always need brakes on the last wagon in case it brakes away, so 10 needs a brake on it? 9 (loco)OOOOOOOO(brake) 10 (loco)VVVVVVVO 11 (loco)WVVVVVVV Would you ever see three types of brakes 12 (loco)WWAAOOOO(brake) 13 (loco)RRRBBVVV So the Accelerated Freight Inshot... Does that need to be fitted to the loco? Which locos? Is it compatible with through pipes? Would it be used with unfitted? 14 (loco)BBFF 15 (loco)FFOOOOOO(brake) 16 (loco)PPPPPPFF(brake) With regards to coaches, I assume they had a single braking type throughout the consist, either air or vacuum (single heating type too!).

What is the deal with the counter-weight on the middle wheel, especially visible in the top photo? Surely the counter-weight should be opposite where the coupling rod is connected to balance that?

I appreciate this is beyond the original remit of the question, but if it was me, I would flip the station end-to-end (and adjust point work accordingly), so it becomes a junction for the low level station (?), with that line diverging in an extended scenic section up the left side - as far as the grey bit that I assume is a lifting section. Slightly adjust the storage sidings to give the branch room to descend around the outside, only going under the board once it has gone most of the way across the top (should be easier to access).

Was it ever the case that the vacuum varied along the length of the train? If you have a twelve coaches, that is 24 flexible hoses and 12 connections; that seems like a lot of potential for leaks. Would a loco would run around its train, and they would have to equalise the pressure, as what is now the back of the train is at a higher vacuum than the loco can pull, given the leaks between the two

I appreciate there have been other threads about milk tankers, but not quite what I am looking for. I have had a think about the numbers involved... A milk tanker had a capacity of 6000 gallon (27 l or 27 tonne). A modern cow typically produces 22 l a day (may have been less before the war, when Fresians were pretty much unknown). To fill a milk tanker you need 12,000 cows. Looks like modern farmers use about half an acre per cow; assuming that has not changed (which is dubious), 12,000 cows need 6000 acres, or about 10 square miles. It would therefore be reasonable to suppose a milk tanker could be filled from the farms served by a single station in a region with fairly intensive dairy farming. Does that all sound reasonable? That is not the case for my situation, so I think the answer here is that I cannot justify milk tankers on the layout, but should look at churns in vans. Even the issue of what churns is not straightforward, with 17 gallon (77 l) conical churns originally used, and the more familiar cylindrical churns of 10 gallon (45 l) capacity introduced in the 1930's (according to Wiki anyway). And then I need to find a passenger-rated van in N gauge that would be used by the SR... Would this be suitable? https://www.Dapol.co.uk/2p-012-202-n-gauge-maunsell-brake-van-maunsell-lined-green-700-2149

I am curious how milk was handled back in the day (pre-war). There were obviously trains of milk tankers taking the stuff to the cities, but would you ever see just one or two tanks on their own? I would guess the local pickup goods would be too slow, but what would have been a faster way to get the milk from the farm to the dairy? The reason behind this is that I am wondering what would justify just one or two milk tankers on a rural BLT. Could there be a small dairy/creamery; what would it look like?

Okay, thanks.