brossard

I promise to be polite, I am Canadian after all. It's not that bad as a rule. I get my stuff within a week to 10 days. Geoff B can't ship my order until mid July due to some parts on back order. John

Thanks Phil (is it?). I've ordered the Comet kit so we'll see what the difference is. John

A quick update. The underframe was completed yesterday with the addition of the buffer beams, salvaged from the Dapolmodel - yay! Also the voltage regulator. I gave it a shot of grey primer last night. John

Jol, I do like 6 wheelers but I think this is the last one I will need (until the next one that is). I love pre-grouping and would probably go Midland if I was to travel that road. I'm pretty heavily invested in LMS though. Phil, I mentioned that I had started with a Brassmasters chassis but things went wrong with axleboxes fouling solebars. I did build a vehicle using a Slater's Cleminson: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79126-lms-6-wheel-insulated-milk-van/ This was a success I think because I fixed the W irons to the solebar supporting the axles on inside bearings. If I was to do a Cleminson again (and my Brassmaster's is still usable) I would do it the same way. Thanks for the tip Nick, I did struggle to find the right material for the sliding axle and got lucky that my bodge worked. I've bought a fair few things from Eileen's. Notwithstanding the above, I do actually have one other 6 wheeler in mind - the Fish Van (Chivers Kit). This was introduced in 1947 (IIRC) so out of era for my LMS needs. However, a friend is supposed to be doing a 1960's ish EM layout so that's in my back pocket. Thanks all for the comments. John

Doh! After coming this far I think I'll see where it goes. There is really nothing left of the old underframe but bits and pieces. I still have my other one (see link) more or less intact. 20/20 hindsight and yes, I should have done the Comet kit. Thanks for the thoughts guys. John Edit: OK, I just put in an order with Comet for a Stove R kit and a bunch of other stuff. This gives me some flexibility.

OK, so I've wanted a Stove R forever. I have a thing about 6 wheeled vehicles so this is an essential "cop". When the Dapol/Hornby/Ian Allen model came out a couple of years ago I happily grabbed two, one in BR guise and the other LMS. At the time I was dabbling in early 1960's BR and wanted a milk train having already got a bunch of milk tanks (also 6 wheeled). The issues with this Dapol model have been well documented and, of course my BR version was unhappy. I was also unhappy because the wheels were 12mm instead 14mm and the brake shoes were miles away from the wheels. The van also wouldn't stay on the track. In this case, I modified the works fairly extensively and got it to a state where it looked reasonable and ran reliably. I discuss what I did here: http://bmrcm.org/stove-r-from-Hornby-magazine-and-Dapol The LMS model has a well executed body and excellently rendered lining and lettering. I had hoped that I could use the body as is while focusing on the underframe for EM gauge. Alas, this was not to be because for whatever reason Dapol chose to put the central lining above the door handles instead of through them: It really is a crying shame because Dapol must have access to all the books I have (and more) and there is not one picture showing the lining in the above position (I rather hoped there was), so, really no excuse. http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/casse-mur-briques.gif I went through a period of navel gazing and tooth sucking before finally resolving that this won't do. I removed the paint and lettering with a fiberglass pen http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_cry.gif. I'll document my second go at this. My first go involved a Brassmaster's Cleminson chassis kit which all worked well enough until I tried it with axleboxes attached - then it all went pear shaped because the axleboxes tended to foul as they moved over the solebars http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. However, I did some trials and found that with the outside axles locked and a sliding center axle, the underframe could work. This is a huge disappointment of course but "never give up". The cleminson chassis was put to one side for another project and I started again. A note on the references used: 1) Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 3, NPCS by Peter Tatlow. There's a 4mm drawing that I've found very useful along with photos. 2) LMS Journal #31. There's an article by Essery about Palethorpes vans and a reproduction of a works drawing showing the brake arrangement - something that can be difficult to find. 3) LMS Coaches by Jenkinson and Essery This time I used a Comet 4/6 wheel underframe kit: This comes out as this: For W irons I went for Bill Bedford sprung units. These work well but are a fiddle to assemble. I found some that had already been made up but, for some reason that escapes me, the brakes had been cut off. You will note that the bearing carriers have a spring wire that threads through holes in the bottom corners of the W irons. I used Bachmann 14mm wheels for this build, but reworked them to the EM spec. I think the difference is pretty clear in this picture. Now I mentioned "sliding center axle" earlier. You may well be asking "what's that"? This lets the wheels freely move from side to side to compensate for curves. What you need is to find a length of brass tubing that is ideally 2mm in diameter with an ID of 1mm ish. Well, I couldn't so I improvised. I had some brass tube of ~ 1.5mm dia and an ID that was near enough 0.032" ( just shy of 1mm). (I did find some tubing of 2.38mm dia which was too large to go into the 2mm ID bush. I also know from experience that trying to ream these plastic bushes doesn't work well. The plastic is such that the reamer doesn't so much cut (as it should) but deform the bushing. This leaves you with an eccentric wheel.) So, I left that overnight for my grey cells to mull over and, sure enough, the answer came to me. What I needed was to replace the bush with plastic that reamer will cut, ie Evergreen. 0.100" evergreen rod is slop fit in the wheel but secures well with cyano. I then, carefully, drilled a 0.020" hole in the center of the rod, enlarging to 0.032" while trying to keep things square by squinting at it. I finally opened the hole with reamer to 2mm which then let me insert the axle. I was astounded to discover that things came out concentric if a tad wobbly (fixed by tweaking). Here's what you get: You can see the cosmetic brass tube axle. The actual axle (sticking out) is 0.032" steel wire (as used in Cobalt point motors) with a sort of a pinpoint ground on each end. It's length is 26mm to fit in the pinpoint bearings. The other thing I wanted to do was maximize the amount of slide so I filed the front of the wheel from 2.3mm to 2mm. The next task was to complete the axle units by adding brakes: This is a Mainly Trains etch designed by Iain Rice. The brakes fold up to produce this: These are fitted (awkwardly) by using the mounted wheels as a location jig and soldering the tabs to the W irons, thusly: I also added cosmetic yokes (with the middle bit cut away) from Bill's fret. I then laboriously added safety loops: This was fine NS wire soldered into holes that I drilled in the base of the W irons. Looking very busy now. Next up was stepboards. The Dapol model is wrong here again, having stepboards of 3/4 length of the solebars with gaps at either end. From my pictures and drawings, these should be 7/8 the length of the solebar with gaps at only one end diagonally opposed to each other: Fixing stepboards is a tricky business because you need to get them as straight as you can. My approach: 1 - I made a jig from scrap brass that just fit in the solebar channel. I then drilled a 0.020" hole in the jig at the position I wanted the stepboard supports. 2 - Determine the locations of the supports along the length of the solebars. I use a black marker and scriber for this - easier to see. 3 - Using your drill and the jig, mark the holes where you want the supports. You can now drill through using the marked holes to locate the drill. 4 - Next do the same on the other side, making the holes directly opposite. 5 - Thread wire of your choice through the holes on both sides. This will provide support for your stepboards. Solder them in place. 6 - Fix the stepboards to the supports with solder. Squint down their length and tweak until things are as straight as you get them. You can trim the excess wire from the stepboards but leave the wire in the middle of the underframe alone! 7 - Fix the opposite side stepboards, trim. 8 - Once the boards are secure and straight, remove the redundant wire from the center of the underframe. Finally, the moment of truth!. I enlarged the holes for 8BA and soldered nuts to the inside of the underframe. I then attached the axle units to the underframe. The underframe was then tested on the track - it worked! I had to do some tweaks with the brakes to get the wheels free running. I left the outer axle units loose so they could swivel. This is only very slight because there's not a lot of room between the W iron and solebar. Brake rigging was next - a great fiddle but I think it's accurate, being based on the drawing in LMSJ 31. From normal viewing angles, you can tell it's there. The complicated bit is around the vac cylinder. There's a second set of vee hangers, to the left, for the mechanism that reverses the direction of pull for the rightmost brakes. The main crank has two holes with the center hole acting on the brake rods for the center and leftmost brakes. I soldered vee hangers to the base of the axle units to receive the pull rods - this is, of course a simplification and the rods are just stuck in. I took the picture above before washing so there's a bit of a mess of paste flux around the dynamo. The 70C solder is a bit blobby too (I pre-tinned the brass with 145C solder). The belt is a strip of scrap fret soldered to the floor of the van. I find that with all this mass of metal I need to increase my soldering iron heat to around 360C to get things working. If you plan to do things like this (and can avoid getting committed), a variable temp. iron is a good investment. Mine also gives a tip temp. readout. A bit more progress adding the other gubbins, such as battery boxes and steps. I thought I'd put the body on to see how things stand. Pretty good but I think I have a bit more fettling to get the body to sit just so. I replaced the plastic moulded angles on the battery boxes with brass angle. Not because the plastic was particularly bad, but because the extensions got broken in the course of my mucking about. The voltage regulator has to be glued on. It fits between the struts of the wide step (made from scraps of brass and wire). The small steps are from the Comet fret. We`re nearly there I think. I`ve been working on this for a while but I did'nt know whether I could make it work or not so held off posting. John

In the same paragraph Essery goes to say that he doesn't know what the mod. was for. It wouldn't do for me to speculate. If the LMS drawing (of the 4 shoe brake) is extinct, perhaps a BR drawing will show up. My library doesn't have much of BR in it. John

Thanks for that Mark, you've picqued my interest. I had a look at my Essery LMS Wagon Drawings and LMS Wagons. Every drawing and picture I've seen, with the exception of the D2096 (looks like a forerunner to BR brake), has two shoes per wheel. You had me slightly concerned for a moment, thinking I might have to retrofit my brake vans, but I think I'm OK - a much later development than the period I'm working in. John

Thanks Mark, I'm a little wiser for that. Do you know if these were original LMS equipment or something added by BR - perhaps an attempt to improve brake power and speed up trains? As best I can tell from the pictures, the vans seem to be fitted. John

4 blocks per wheel??? Now I'm mystified, can you clarify? John

Mark, Mainly Trains has etched brake gear parts including both clasp brakes and manual brakes: http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/exp_mt234.htm http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/exp_mt230.htm http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/exp_mt223.htm Not whitemetal but I find the parts very handy. I used the clasp brakes on this: D1890 van from an ancient Chiver brass kit. Dave Franks may have something in whitemetal, site doesn't seem to be working at the moment. (Lanarkshire Model Supplies). John

John, the trick with a wagon kit is to get it flat and square. A mirror (I have a hand mirror bought cheap in the cosmetics section) will help you do that. It's a good idea to use brass pinpoint bearings, I prefer the waisted type. These are fairly commonly available. Eileen's Emporium is very good: https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9 I frequently get my wheels in too tight and find this tool very handy to open bearings ever so slightly: http://www.micromark.com/HO-Truck-Tuner,8241.html The other thing about kits is to have a go. It's a learning experience and the more you try, the better you get. John

John, I don't know how you feel about accuracy but I recently discovered that some Dapol 7 plank PO minerals have incorrect 10' WB underframes and over long bodies (2mm) to suit the underframe. (Assuming we're talking about RCH 1923 wagons that is). A shame really because the moulding is excellent and the printing top notch. These won't do for me but others may feel differently...just saying. Some of Hornby's minerals seem to have the same problem. The long steel minerals look OK, although the moulded brake levers are a bit naff. I think your best bet for PO wagons is Bachmann - they seem to be dimensionally accurate. Slater's do nice 9' WB underframe kits (if you can get them from Coopercraft). From PD, I think you need PA08 (BR/RCH 9' WB) for 7 plank minerals. I can't recall ever seeing an underframe kit for the long mineral. John

I was just looking at some in my wagon bits box. The ones I have are printed paper, but I've had them a long time. When I have used them, I have crumpled them up to give them that used look and to make more "malleable". I think the barrier to using these properly is knowing how to tie them down. John

Waiting eagerly for this model. I think I read somewhere that both the half cab and full cab versions would be offered. I'm working on getting the full set, having got the Bachmann 3F and 4F, as well as a couple of Jinties. I also have the 00Works 2F. John

Thanks Dave. I converted two Bachmann vans a little while ago (which needed very little doing) and currently have a Chivers brass D1890 (I think) van on my workbench for conversion. John

Just to finish off, I weathered the van today: John

Just to follow on my post above, I completed the upgrade. I think there will be those that think this is over the top and I wouldn't disagree. the Hornby underframe has excellent moulded detail. It is spoiled primarily by the brakes moulded to the W irons, no ballast weight and thick stepboards and struts. There is, of course, no brake rigging detail. Anyway, for those who like to punish themselves, here goes: First, the starting point: The Bill Bedford kit contains two frets and is designed for springing, as are most of Bill's kits. I wanted to convert mine to EM gauge as well. I took pictures of the build progress so if anyone has a question, I can post those. To cut to the chase: Build complete and primed. Axleboxes were slavaged from the Hornby underframe. Triangular struts in the solebar are from 0.040" plastic strip and secured with cyano (very fiddly). There is provision on the fret for these but I gave up as the bits were just too much of a fiddle. Buffers are from Lanarkshire Models. Body glued back on. A look under the bonnet for those who are curious. The model has yet to be weathered and lamps added. A challenging job and, as I say, perhaps a tad over the top. John

Interesting that this should come up now. I just started on an underframe kit from Bill Bedford: https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=5801&category_id=288&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9 Check the Bill Bedford listing on Eileen's - there are loads of interesting goodies on there that can be used for upgrades. It does require soldering but goes together nicely and seems well thought out (in common with Bill's stuff generally). Bad news is that there are no instructions, other than those for the springing. I too feel that there is not a lot wrong with the body and plan to leave it alone. John

I thought I'd add my a couple of pictures of my upgrades to the vans. I didn't do the yokes as John did but managed to get the rigging looking suitably busy: My reference was LMS Journal 31 which has some good reproductions of works drawings. The underside: I ended up replacing the brake levers with Mainly Trains parts. The couplings are scale head Kadees. John (the other one)

I think that making the effort with getting the backhead and detail right is worth it. The cab interior is very visible and trying to emulate the cab detail of the latest RTR locos is a good aiming point, IMO - something I will be trying for. John

Mainly Trains do lots of very useful etches under their brand name. Many look to have been done by Iain Rice. Well worth a look and, for me, worth having in stock. John

Thanks for these pictures. I have a kit to build and these will help with some of the more obscure details, especially the backhead. John

Mainly Trains do some very nice brake gear etches - all the bits you would ever need to do a credible job at rigging. These have Iain Rice's fingerprints all over them. It's disappointing that the brake gear isn't more complete - unlike the GWR Horsebox. John

Bachmann"s coupling rod system leaves a lot to be desired IMO. I just installed Markits crankpins into Jinty RTR wheels by snipping, filing and reaming to get the hole right. I secured the pin with cyano. Comet rods look a whole lot better. Brassmaster's say that an Easi Chas will be available in the New Year (would have been available sooner had B not gone for rear wheel drive on this vs center drive on the 3F). John