brossard

Thanks Market65, it's great to give these old models a lease on life - provided the fundamentals are correct. You are right, the tops of the buffers will need to be chopped off.

Well, today was spent detailing the underframe. I got it done but was a trial in places: I tested the underframe on the track and it all works - amazing! There's a pair of vacuum cylinders and brake actuators. My rigging isn't great, but the idea is to give the impression that it's there. When I scrutinized the drawing I happened to notice that the pull rod from the LH cyclinder actuates the brakes on the RH bogie and, of course, vice versa. The dynamo can be seen and some strip of 1mm phosphor bronze to represent the belt. There's a battery box at the bottom and the pan for the voltage regulator can be seen at the top. I discovered that I had goofed when positioning the bogies and that they were 1mm too far in, fouling the truss. I've since pushed them out and it's all good now. Here's a side view: This is the battery box (Comet) side and there isn't a lot to see. The opposite side provides a more pleasing "busy" look to it all. Note the voltage regulator (Comet) sitting on its' pan and NOT centered. John

This is something I've been meaning to do for some while (along with a triplet of Bachmann LMS BGs). Ben Jones' article in the last BRM was the catalyst to look closely at this model and decide what to do. My reference is Historic Carriage Drawings, Vol 3, NPCS, by Peter Tatlow. The model: Quite attractive really and the body is accurate: Stripped to its' component parts: Those bogies are actually from the short Hornby LMS Stanier coach and have a wheelbase of 8'6". The wheels are Bachmann split axle - they went in the bin. You might guess I've had this model for a long time. It's time to convert to EM. Working from the ground up, I started with the bogies: Wheels are Bachmann reworked to EM spec. (...yes, yes, I've ordered some EM wheels). The etch is, to state the obvious, one of Bill Bedford's from Eileen's Emporium. I do like Bill's kits. Here's the first bogie assembled: This rolls very nicely with nary a twitch through the 36" rad. test turnout. Making up the second bogie and modifying the underframe to accept them: This assembly whizzes very nicely along the track. Next, I wanted to deal with couplings. I use scale head Kadee, which in the past have been attached to the bogie. This time I wanted the coupling on the body - under the bufferbeam alas - so that the bogie can do its' job without interference. This involved fitting buffers, coupling and modifying the bogie: You can see I've cut away the front beam of the bogie and added some extra struts. This worked great on the test track. So I did the other. Testing showed a good result. I then added cosmetic sides to the bogies. These are from Bachmann bogies: Tacked with cyano and reinforced with epoxy. Anyone know of good solderable cosmetic bogie sides? Comet don't list them separately on the site. I spent a fair bit of time gouging plastic out of the bearing cavity to get the sprung bearing carriers operating freely. Next I turned to the underframe. A lot has been done, but now I need to detail the center bit. First I removed some of the floor to give me more room to attach my gubbins. I had planned to reuse the plastic trussing (there's some nice bolt detail) but as I was filing, it failed. I decided to do something in brass. The 4mm drawing in the book gave me all the info I needed and I used some 1mm square tube and 2mm scrap strip: The center trusses come from a PC coach that disintegrated (actually the whole rake did). These were modified to suit the GUV. Trussing assembled and trial fitted. I don't know about you, but I'm impressed. Brass is such a wonderful material: By the way, does anyone know how the brake handwheel is rigged to the brakes? Now on to the brake detailing. John Edit: Forget about the solderable bogies. I just found a load of whitemetal bogies with those PC coaches I mentioned.

Thanks for the clarification Andy. Looks like I ordered 31-430 so now must be on the lookout for the LMS half cab. John

I'm still struggling to understand how the full cab version fits into all this. I have the half cab on pre order, but would also like a full cab. John

Thanks Iain, great looking coaches. I too find lining and lettering to be a trial, but I do find myself getting better the more I do. The HMRS sheets are very good but are limited. There are transfers missing such as those describing the allowable load for guards compartments. Modelmaster are a good alternative and do have those prodigal transfers. I'm glad they are starting to get into pre-grouping. I've been contemplating making some of my own transfers but for yellow on red, you will need to use the white backed transfer sheet. This means that you will have to match the coach colour on the transfer sheet too. Still, as you say, we bash on and find solutions (I find almost every step to be a problem requiring one) and techniques. John

Thanks Shaun and Larry, that confirms what I thought. I think I'll stick to my usual paint. John

Ah yes, I think I understand that. I was thinking more of the type of paint, for example cellulose in the case above, or perhaps lacquer. I'm accustomed to using acrylic and enamel and have a filter face mask (NOT a dust mask) for spraying and airbrushing. From what I read, a filter face mask isn't adequate for cellulose. I'd like to hear of others experiences. John

Just out of curiosity what kind of paint are we talking about when referring to car colour? A couple of years ago a friend asked me to build some coaches and got some LSWR Salmon (1906) mixed at a car painters. This was cellulose. I had planned to airbrush it but when I read the health advisories I got scared off. I ended up mixing my own, using acrylic, which took ages to get even close. John

Agreed Iain, I have used them on some Bachmann Mk 1 Suburbans, at the same time doing some with the Finecast glazing for comparison (there isn't really). FWIW, here's a link to my article on upgrading these: http://preview.tinyurl.com/ckzmwe7 John

I'm watching this discussion with interest. I don't plan to buy these particular coaches since they are out of era for me. However, I wonder if this signals a design change for Bachmann's future coaches (similar to locos now having 2.17mm (!!??) dia axles). I am slightly troubled that Bachmann seem to have decided to change the accepted norms for bogies and wheels. We don't have a body such as NMRA to "convince" the manufacturers to do things consistently so I suppose we are at their mercy. John

I've been doing battle with a Stove R: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87302-building-an-lms-stove-r-that-works/ I used the sliding axle method advocated by Bill and it seems to work great. I left the outer axles to swivel, but only very slightly as there's not a lot of room. I've since received some 2mm tube and 1mm rod from Eileen's. I did try a Brassmaster's cleminson chassis which does work, but I came a cropper because my W-irons fouled the solebars. My previous effort was with a Slater's cleminson chassis: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79126-lms-6-wheel-insulated-milk-van/ My take away is to fix the W-irons to the solebar and use inside bearings. John

I expect there are many who are aware, but for those that aren't, there are bogie kits available: MJT: http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.php#SuspensionSystems-CarriageCompensationUnits These are probably a bit dated but I've used them. I stick cosmetic sides on. Brassmasters: http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/bogie_CUs.htm I haven't tried these. I understand they were designed by Jim Smith-Wright, so should be good. Bill Bedford from Eilleen's Emporium: https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=288&Itemid=9 I have some of these on order. I've been building a fair few of Bill's kits of late - they all feature springing, and are very good IMO. There is, of course Comet Models. These come with the provision for compensation and whitemetal sides. The thing I've found about plastic bogie kits, like those with the Ratio coach kits, is that they are terribly fragile. I would build a brass kit like one of those above and use the kit sides. John

I was just thinking about doing the glazing in my suburbans. This is the one area that lets down the whole model, after all the upgrade work. I did try the Finecast flushglazing and it's an improvement, but the laser glaze is much better I think. John

Interesting thread Iain. It's great fun to restore older coaches to bring them up to current standards. It's also interesting to me to find another kindred soul wrt Tony's coupling system. Great work! John

Doing some further reading on Period I coaches, I have found that the Midland style lining must have perpetuated until at least 1934. Period II coaches, despite not being panelled, were given the Midland style lining and even for the first couple of years of Period III coach production, they had the same lining. After 1934, the LMS simplified lining came about. It is reasonable to think that any Period I or II coaches having a full repaint would be outshopped in the simplified lining (NOT the Bachmann lining). However, I haven't found a picture of a Period I (or II) in simplified lining. I suspect the reason is that there was too little time between 1934 and 1939 to see appreciable numbers of coaches repainted. Between 1939 and 1945, I imagine that only essential repairs were done and that touch up painting would be the norm. Of course, considerable numbers of Period I coaches were modified for ambulance use during the war, and afterwards, were converted to full brakes (as related in Essery & Jenkinson). John

I do agree Phil. I'm pretty sure the Midland style, with LMS branding, lasted a fair while and the coaches were only withdrawn in the BR era. I'm not at all certain the lining would still be in that style by 1936 (the period I have chosen). Who knows, maybe Bachmann got it right with their simplified lining. Hoping someone can provide some indication of the lining in the mid 30s. 1000 is anachronistic for the period that the train set is supposed to represent. I do like the compound but I'm holding out for a red one. John

My attention was drawn to 30-170: http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/30-170.jpg&cat_no=30-170&info=204&width=600&height=410 Thames Clyde Express. I usually don't pay attention to train sets but the coaches look to have the Midland lining. The coaches themselves, unless Bachmann spring a huge surprise, are most likely the old Period 1 LMS coaches. These are generally very good coaches having, as near as I can tell, accurate bodies. From Essery & Jenkinson, I believe the two types are BTK - D1696 and CK - D1694. There's only a picture of the compartment side of the BTK in the book but I can't find any errors. The problem with these has always been the fictional livery of a single yellow line just below the windows and a twin yellow line above the windows. So, Midland style lining for these would be just right and that is how the BTK is pictured. I don't know if the livery was changed later (some coaches were converted to ambulance use), but if the lining is accurate these would be great. The underframe is a bit basic, but that can be sorted with Comet parts if one is so inclined (and I am). Trouble is, I have no use for the loco (being, so I'm told, in its' "as preserved" condition) so I'm hoping these coaches will be issued separately. John

The underframe has been painted now. I'm in the process of getting some paint on the body (for the third time - grrrr!). I'll post some pictures when things are somewhat presentable. John

I daresay that is so. I mentioned above that my ignorance of things LNER was profound but always prepared to learn. John

Well you're way ahead of me Phil. I'll just have to catch up. Those are lovely. I see some have duckets, others not. John

Yes thanks. I'm in the process of girding the loins to build some Comet coaches. John

Being somewhat pedantic and maybe OCD, I wouldn't let those fake wheels pass. However, I recognise that if the builder isn't prepared to go to the lengths I have gone to (and I suspect very few are), they serve a purpose. Showing my ignorance of things NOT LMS, I have no clue as to what a D172 is. John

Oooh! Goody, another coach build! Hinges defeated me on my last try at some non corridor coaches a while back. I think your method is the way to go. John

Chivers have a plastic kit of the LMS 6 wheeled fish van - it's on my list but not a priority because it will have to wear BR livery. I did the LMS brass brake van - nice kit. In fact they all are. John