nickb4141

Thanks for the recommendation! Just had a quick look and the only Class 28 is, (you guessed it,) sold! 😁 I will however check back periodically, so hopefully, I’ll strike gold!

If you look at sold prices on EBay, there are quite a few reaching over £200, so while, yes,I agree it’s not an exact science, it does suggest there is at least some demand for these. The only alternative is the ‘expressions of interest’ polls which, in my opinion are a complete finger in the air and absolutely meaningless. It’s been quite a while since the last batch sold out everywhere, so I would have thought it’d be worth a punt in releasing some more at some point? Incidentally, I wasn’t interested in Class 28’s when the first two batches were released, as they didn’t fit in with my layouts at the time. Currently, I’m planning a model based on the Furness line, so these are very much part of the scene, so I’d be looking for 2-3 if they ever do become available again. Yes, that’s only me, but I’d imagine there are other modellers whose modelling interests ‘evolve’ over time.

Is it only LNER 9 car sets Kato are producing? Just seems a bit strange not to offer the GWR equivalents, unless I’ve missed something?

The prices these reach on EBay are stratospheric! I’m really surprised that no one at Heljan has picked up on this and announced a new batch - there definitely seems to be a pent up demand, based on what people are prepared to pay for them!

Definitely agree about the 4CIG! Three mouldings, with no significant changes made to the prototype throughout a 40 year plus life and multiple liveries, operating across all three sections of the Southern Region! In addition, it has lots of current models that complement it. Probably makes sense for Hornby to utilise their soon to be released, revised Class 423, but I won’t hold my breath!

I think the simple answer to how much people are prepared to pay for units, is to be at least in line with competitors. Bachmann have produced many units over the years, so there must be a market for them, as they wouldn’t continue to invest in new ones. Their Class 158’s and 117’s and 121’s are excellent models at pretty reasonable prices, so would provide a good benchmark for prices of 1/2/3 car models, both DCC Ready and Sound Fitted, (although I do feel their CEP’s and BEP’s were overpriced at an RRP of £500!) Dapol also seems to have pitched the price and specifications of their recently announced Class 323 well. Accurascale have already demonstrated their capabilities with their Irish units, so I’m surprised Fran is trying to gauge opinion on the commercial viability. I wouldn’t have thought a UK outline multiple unit wouldn’t be any more of a risk than an Irish outline unit, taking market size into account. Yes, the prototype picked I will be a definite factor, but reading through this thread there seems to be a lot of people requesting what appears to be some sound commercial choices. I do wonder if Fran’s question was to deflect that Accurascale don’t have any immediate plans for UK units? My personal opinion is that they’ll still be in the ‘Space Race’ in the immediate future, to produce high spec loco replacements for some of the ‘low hanging fruit’ of ageing models from other manufacturers (Class 08, HST, West Country/Battle of Britain, A4 all spring to mind). That said, as someone who is ‘crazy’ about multiple units, I sincerely hope I’m wrong and Fran has all sorts of goodies ready to announce!

Has anyone heard who the ‘mystery manufacturer’ is for a newly tooled 153 yet? (Charlie alluded to one being in work at the moment, but was tight lipped as to who it was!) ….Would have bet it was Heljan, with the new 7mm version currently in work , but Charlie said it’s not them?? Accurascale? Rapido?

Just checked my preorder for five 142’s and thankfully the order is not cancelled (at least not at the moment!)

Really? Please do enlighten me…….I haven’t seen anything that explains the phenomenon of N gauge being more viable than 00 gauge products? Block wagons, I could possibly understand, but we’re talking about a 2 or 3 car multiple unit here? Is it? I see Mike has already put you straight on that one and confirmed Revolution isn’t run as a side line hobby. Even if that was the case, Realtrack manage to produce multiple liveries of their products and I wasn’t aware that there is an army of people working for Charlie Petty? Just to reconfirm (as I’ve said many times before,) I love the products Revolution have produced and my wallet has been considerably lighter as a result, in both 00 gauge and N gauge! I’m not attacking them, but merely trying to provide constructive feedback regarding some of the decisions that have been made, with a view to them maximising their success and potentially reinvesting that into further projects. I genuinely wish them the very best for the future and look forward to what else they have up their sleeves. Merry Christmas everyone! 😁

Haha! I’m not sure who’s ’stamping their feet’ here?! I don’t think you have understood the point I have been making. The 00 market is the same group of consumers whether you’re a modern or steam era modeller and every permutation in between. They don’t suddenly metamorphosise into a different species when purchasing Revolution products. Accurascale are far from a predominantly steam manufacturer, so why you feel Accurascale sell to a different market, to Revolution is a different view, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. As a previous purchaser of Revolution products, there are many items that Accurascale produce that also appeal and complement the Revolution products produce or are planning to introduce. The fundamental difference between Revolution and most other manufacturers is that they other a range of liveries which cover the timeline of the products they’re producing, thereby maximising the return on their investment, by appealing to the widest possible audience. Similarly, Dapol, Bachmann, Heljan, Realtrack and even Hornby follow the same practice, so it must work, as they’re all still in business! I’ve fully accept that Revolution have no plans to produce the livery I would have a purchased a couple of units in, but I just think some of their business decisions are a little strange, but it’s their business and that decision is entirely their perrogrative. Interestingly, no one has countered my argument that if the missing First livery can be viable in N scale, then why it wouldn’t be in 00 scale? Even Ben has said ‘N gauge items can sell at least as well as 00 scale’ which kind of contradicts the decision that has been made. Anyway, Merry Christmas everyone, I hope that clarifies the point, I’ve been trying to make and here’s to a ‘spitting your dummy out’ - free 2024! 😆

Because you could only be ‘not interested’ if you actually saw the ‘expressions of interest’ in the first place! Revolution seem to have a very low profile compared to for example, Accurascale. At the end of the day, all manufacturers are selling their products to the same 00 gauge market, but I can’t imagine Accurascale only offering 2 liveries on an 00 DMU (if they ever produce one,) and Dapol are able to offer 7 liveries on an arguably more restricted EMU prototype, than the 175 and 180 DMU’s? So why is the 00 market so different to Revolution’s eyes?

Hi Charlie, that’s sounds a bit like a cryptic crossword! Can you expand on what you mean please?

Yes, meant Dapol’s N gauge 156 (model in both scales) I already have a lot of Realtrack’s excellent 156 sets :) I agree re Bachmann doing a Class 950, as it would be a simple body retool/set of slides, but seeing they’ve had the 150 tooling for about 15 years, they don’t seem in any hurry to do it!

The Network Rail Class 950 Track Recording DMU would be a good choice - at least 3 liveries off the top of my head and they have been literally EVERYWHERE across the rail network, so an easy excuse for every modern modeller to buy at least one. …..there’s not that many items you can say run everywhere!

Revised Class 156 models with the universal toilet window modifications, so that we can have an up to date Northern White & Blue and Scotrail liveries. Also if the boxy underframe could be retooled, that would be a great improvement!

Yes,sorry, I meant in 00. Revolution always seem extremely cautious about producing 00 gauge stuff, demonstrated with the two liveries offered for their 4mm 175 and 180 models. They’ve also avoided 00 gauge versions of their 320/321, 313/314 and Electrostar models, so I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for anything from them. Ben has said ‘N gauge sells at least as well as 00 gauge’ so they probably feel safer sticking with what they know with N gauge products.

Agree with all of those choices - I’m quite amazed that the 116 and 120 DMU’s have been shunned by manufacturers for so long, while some other quite niche (and ‘bargain bin’ candidates,) have been chosen ahead of them!

They actually run in 6 car formations fairly regularly nowadays, but granted this is a relatively recent development in the last couple of years. On the positive side, these have run over quite a widespread area, despite only having one operator and they would complement the forthcoming Hornby TPE Class 802, which seemed to sell out extremely quickly on pre order and the Accurascale Nova 3 Mk5 sets.

I second that. Probably more attractive to Revolution as there are only a couple of mainstream liveries to produce, rather than multiple liveries that Dapol tend to favour, but whoever was to produce these, I’d be in the market for four sets of these.

Well said Big Jim! The FNW livery is also the only livery that has operated over all of the lines shown in Revolution’s route maps!

….and if you counted the Welsh livery versions, (bearing in mind there are two options,) it wasn’t much more, so based on your theory, none of the livery options would be viable! Let me just ask you this, if you were investing your money in a project, how many 2mm models do you realistically think would outsell a direct 4mm equivalent? If you’re being honest, I think the answer would be very few or none. If that is the case, then how can the FNW version be viable in 2mm, but not in 4mm? If just doesn’t stack up! If 4mm versions are such poor sellers for Revolution, then why bother? Perhaps the answer is to share development costs with Accurascale and let them produce the 4mm versions and Revolution the 2mm versions, which I’m sure someone will correct me, if I’m wrong, but was pretty much what happened with the Mk5 Transpennine & Caledonian Sleeper coaches.

….whilst not a current livery, the ‘Barbie livery was around for about ten years, albeit later debranded with new operators names added. It was certainly around for longer than the last livery, which is now obsolete, seeing as the units have now been withdrawn by Transport for Wales. Anyone modelling the Cumbrian coast to Barrow, Blackpool, Windermere, Lancaster, Preston or Manchester areas sadly doesn’t have an excuse to buy a few units.

If you’ve been following this thread from the beginning, you’ll see quite a number of people stating they were going to purchase 4mm First North Western 175’s, so I’m certainly not the only one who wanted this livery before it was pulled - take a look, you might be surprised just how many there are!

Hi Ben, Thanks for your reply, but I’m struggling to understand the logic here? If 2mm versions sell ‘at least as well as 4mm’ then how can the FNW version be viable in 2mm but not 4mm? Last weekend Dapol announced an (arguably less geographically spread,) model with the class 323 EMU and have offered six liveries from the outset in 4mm, which seems at odds with your two offered for the 4mm 175. I don’t think expressions of interest tell you anything - it’s easy for anyone to say ‘I’ll buy two of those and three of those’ but the fact that you had little response would suggest the message didn’t get out there to the intended audience. I regularly read RMWeb and read all of the modelling press and didn’t see anything and I’m a massive DMU fan! I’m not saying all of this to be a thorn in your side, but I think your pendulum has gone from one extreme to another with the livery options offered (early Pendolino options and 321 spring to mind). My concern if that you’re going to end up stifling your potential sales and the viability of projects, which would be a great shame, when you produce such great products.

Hi Ben, Thanks for your reply. Re the expression of interest, I had no idea of this and I wonder if others may be in the same boat. I was surprised that you are still doing the FNW livery in 2mm if it’s that unpopular as I thought the common assumption was that N gauge is only 10% of the 4mm market, hence if 2mm is viable, you’d expect 4mm to be a certainty? Currently the only two choices are both Welsh liveries, so anyone modelling quite a wide area of Northern England is effectively excluded from having an excuse to buy a 175 from you, which is a shame as it no doubt effects the viability of this and future projects. I appreciate your past experience with the 320/321 liveries offered, but only offering 2 liveries both from the same geographical area seems like a missed opportunity to me? Cheers, Nick.