Legend

That shade of blue is gorgeous. I never wanted one, when Hornby announced it , I wasn't interested . But when they came out and I saw it in the flesh I loved it. It's on the layout, doesn't get a lot of use but potters around the shunting yard. I love it, but for me it is the shade of blue, not so interested in the green or forthcoming black ones .

Yes I thought tilt is really only useful in the northern stretches of WCML, which is why I thought the 91 and Mk4s unaltered was a good idea. As Ben says they were built for tilt capability, but would you install new gear on a 30 year old asset? Probably prohibitively expensive. No , I'm in favour of keeping it simple. Work on reliability and it's a nice trainset. Don't need tilt , presumably they just need to keep up with other traffic to secure their path

Makes sense using 91s to Blackpool.

I think probably something else to emerge , certainly for any new builds will be you need two stairwells at opposite corners of buildings

Yep seems we are stuck with the white battery box. I hope they change their mind on this. I've certainly never seen one in real life. As you say you can reprint it easily enough, but seems a shame. It must also be costing them to paint that bit white- for really no reason. Why bother when we are all going to paint them black anyway. Perverse indeed

It's good that the government putting funding into help these poor people but I think it also needs to put someone in charge to coordinate the effort. The disaster was horrific, but I don't think officialdom is covering itself in glory with the aftermath. Yes I can appreciate it can't be easy rehousing large numbers of people , but we must do better than this. One priceless snippet from Question Time last night was that all hotels have to have sprinklers , but not high rises. I appreciate that sprinklers might not stop fire travelling up the outside of the building, but even if it gave people a bit more time to get out it would have been worth it. They are saying installing sprinklers will not be cheap and cause disruption. Well how much is a life worth? I think the mood of the country will insist on this in tower blocks . Just watched 10 o'clock news with the Doctor who treated the injured. He lost it at the end of the interview. What a hero doing what he could to save lives, along with all the fire fighters . True sincerity. Compare that with some politicians whose media trained responses are a bit trite

I Agree there is a lot of speculation. However it is also clear that there is a lot of concern and rising discontent . We can't wait for a public enquiry to make it's recommendations. Something does need to be done as soon as possible . I bet the fire brigade already has a view on what caused the fire to spread so rapidly. And the key thing is to give advice to other tower residents what to do now . If the fire integrity is not compromised it may be that the best advice is to stay put in your flat and await rescue, but if the integrity has been compromised then that could be the completely wrong advice. If you are tucking your kids up in bed tonight in a high rise you really need to know this . We cannot wait months or even years to get this sorted. Someone's going to have to act pretty fast to turn this speculation into some hard facts.

I think the first reaction people have in this country is to ask for a Public Enquirey. I don't have a problem with that, but they usually take ages to organise and come to a conclusion, then it seems not all recommendations are acted upon. Look at the Hillsborough one as an example. I don't think we have the time , we need action now to protect people. I think the key things are . Suitability of cladding in high rise buildings, sprinkler systems , the advice to stay put in your flat in the event of a fire, is this still appropriate? Presumably the answer to the last one will be specific to the block of flats you live in . Has it been re clad , had the fire proof integrity been compromised in any way. And this needs to happen now because there are people living in these blocks that need reassurance and a way out in the event of fire. We cannot fail them in the way residents of Grenfell house were failed. I am still shocked that this could happen in modern regulated Britain. I thought we had basic safety covered, but apparently not. So I think we also need a review of current specifications, regulations and checks . Were they adaquate. Was it just a case of people ticking boxes and going through the motions rather than actual testing. Not sure it's just about penny pinching , it could just be sheer incompetence as well or taking the easy route and not asking the tricky questions. As a basic I would have thought all high rise buildings will have to have sprinklers now . Not just new builds but old buildings too. We have seen the price of not having them. How else do you fight fires in a High Rise . I always thought we had a plan, but I now don't think that's the case, which is still the bit I'm shocked about.

That's a really nice layout with lots of operating interest.

I thought you needed the rear view mirror to spot the Police coming up behind you . Now if you were a Volvo driver it would be to see all the traffic queuing behind you as you stay in the middle or outer lane

Thanks. Some points there that I hadn't considered. Not as straightforward as I thought

It sounds like In terms of protection and regulation Australia is where I thought the UK was . I am still incredulous . Didnt anyone test the fire alarm to see if it could be heard in the flats? I'm not into attributing blame or chucking people into prison. All I want is to make sure that our regulations are stringent, real and being enforced and regularly tested. I really am shaken that this could happen in the UK in 2017.

It's been a long time since an incident has really shocked me like this. Thoughts are with everyone involved . It is horrific. I work for a big corporation who takes health and safety extremely seriously, to the extent that some find it intrusive . I know not every company is like this, but my overall view of Great Britain was similar. You can see it in some threads on here where we laugh about Health and Safety officials. To me that's a good sign that H&S is prevalent through all aspects of society. I really thought that GB had great Fire Safety Standards and Building Controls , amongst other things,which is why I'm aghast (really I'm struggling for words) that something like this could happen. I remember the Kings Cross fire. Dust in the escalator ignited, but one of the key issues was the cladding in tunnels which spread the fire. For years after the Underground looked like a building site as all cladding was taken down. Local to me the Clyde tunnel had its cladding removed for the same reason. So we learned lessons . Eventually cladding was replaced with fire proof material.How could we then coat a high rise building with cladding? Yes I know someone will say it's different but it's not really , it's all too obvious now that it's combustible . And my shock is that no one realised this. Did it not occur to someone that this would happen, were there no tests carried out? I know hindsight is a great thing but given our controls shouldn't this have been spotted. I think this is what's shaken me the most . I thought we had stringent protections and we seemingly don't. Have people just been box ticking are our strong Health and Safety laws an illusion? Add to this the lack of sprinklers and an alarm that did not alert people , I'm almost incredulous. Really we failed these people , as soon as that fire started it looks like they had little chance. I'm so sorry for those involved. A nightmare scenario.

Leave them empty. People who are coming in will have own furnishings and own idea of how to decorate even if recently decorated.

McLaren models have been around for a long time. Only an occasional shop visitor and also attended of the Falkirk Swapmeets that they organise, but never had any issues . Suggest lifting phone to them, sure this will get sorted out.

Sorry , aside from the similarity of sets I just don't see a Marklin/Hornby tie up. As to Hornby getting the licence to G scale Thomas I think we are off in the realms of fantasy here. The position is clear . Hornby have licence for Thomas OO in UK. Bachmann have the licence elsewhere and the licence for large scale models. Why would that change ? This Hornby Junior set is developed as a lower cost trainset than even the Hornby Stalwart of 0-4-0 plus three wagons . It's needed to get a presence in the big toy stores . If you look at Smyths or Toys r Us there is no Hornby . That's why it's needed . However I am lamenting the lack of functionality and ability to be extended.

While I suspect capital or cash to develop a new range is tight, I have to agree with the above. No doubt this is intended to be a low cost product to get into the likes of Smyths or Toys r Us , but I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity. Who really gets excited by a battery train going round in circles these days. It might have worked in the 60s but not with today's sophisticated youngsters. If I can go to Mankind and buy a drone that is controlled by my iPhone for less than £50 , should this trainset not be remote control like the Marklin ones? And as Tom has pointed out something with a bit more play value like a Container wagon with container transferable onto a lorry or ship would have been more exciting. This could then lead onto a revamped Railroad range with 66, HST , 156 all in today's colour schemes with container trucks and same lorries and boats. Leading people onto main range. But I'm afraid as a stand alone item, this does not have potential , costs more than Marklin and has much less functionality.

If you want power projection then the carrier really is it. That said they are big targets. I'd be more worried about Diesel subs given that we know they can penetrate escort screens rather than the theoretical threat of a carrier missile. Id be more worried in the Royal Navy given our lack of escorts and the fact the Queen Elizabeth is no doubt very lightly armed in line with most of our warships . Going to need Anti Submarine Type 23s (type 26s later) and rype 45 air defence destroyers for the protective screen

When not running my trains I keep them in their original boxes. Really most of mine are boxed from 1974. Some were given from parents and relatives who are now gone. So unboxing them to run them is a reminder of the nice people that gave them to me and happy memories of receiving them for the first time. For that reason while I might posses the latest version of a model, the old ones are never replaced. So although I have a Bachmann black 9f , my original 1974 Hornby Railways one still gets much use.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting the links Ohmisterporter

Tool room must be very big, given the length of time to transit it

Ironically it might have been faster on the motorways back in 1974, assuming you had a good car . These days the M6 between junctions 27 and 15 is an absolute pain quite often resulting in an hour or more delay. Motorways are too clogged. What really annoys me is what I call dancing lorries, blocking two lanes of the motorway , one travelling 2mph faster than the other and trying to overtake, causing congestion. If we could just get these artics off the road and onto rail . No way anyone could do Glasgow - London in less than 5 hours though.

Also can't understand this fixation with lighting . I'd prefer them to get them out ASAP at reasonable cost. They should be designed in such a way that if folks want lighting they can retrofit them

Agreed . Around the time the K1 and Jinty were introduced. I haven't bought Bachmann for at least two years, I think the last one was the 64XX or maybe the C1 from Locomotion, but these were certainly smooth runners.

I think you have to look at the overall picture. Dave has been a breath of fresh air in the hobby. His work with the Dapol 52 giving regular updates and involving modellers was a first. He has since gone on to provide the 71 , Austerity , 14xx etc in his own right . These seem to be Well received, particularly the 71. However it has to be said that many of these projects have taken a considerable time to come to market, certainly a lot longer than the initial promise. In addition there are promises of updates that after a while never materialise. Then there's the announcements of various models that we have still never seen, I can't remember details , but various N gauge models. Add to this the latest episode on the Hattons OO King for a long time hailed as the best model ever to be conceived CAD CAMs etc generating huge interest and froth only for it to die away. Yes I know they are reasons . Hattons pulled out but then Dave gives the impression it could go ahead in the future . You are kind of just left hanging there . So you are marched to the top of the hill.........and then just left there. And I think given that context people are a bit nervous about the 92. And you can see this happening . The OO version seems to be getting chatted about but it's gone quiet on the N one, no doubt because there's an alternative model. That may make this models viability challenging. So I think we need a bit more transparency and discipline here. We don't need weekly announcements or updates, but regular communications are essential. When you promise an update , deliver it . Do not promise things by a certain date unless it's absolutely certain you can deliver. Be transparent on likelihood of things going ahead, don't just go quiet. If you are open and explain details I find people are generally tolerant . Of course , we also need to give Dave a bit of a break . Let's not underestimate the scale of what Daves trying to do here . As a one man band he has succeeded in producing some very fine models, while others have a company around them to do all various different features , including customer relations, invoicing etc, which Dave has to do all by himself.Really a one man band! No outsourcing of the warehouse here! Let's recognise issues of dealing with supply chain in China. Through experience, I can tell you it's not easy getting confirmed production dates. And he is not alone with these problems . Hornby have had problems , although generally seem to be better at moment. Bachmann , of course have models that are taking an eternity to arrive , which given their vertical integration with Kader you really would have expected better. So it's not just Dave!