Legend

Or Model Rail should have deferred it to next month. Presumably they knew the embargo date and everyone knows subscription copies land before the official on sale date. But regardless, well done Kernow!

Given the furore over the last major rolling stock order going to Siemens, I can't see it being poltically acceptable that more Desiros or versions of them would be ordered for Transpennine. But then again, the ineptitude of our politicians , whatever party, never fails to astound

If I remember correctly Hornby also considered acquiring Sandakan in which case the position may well have been reversed. Whatever, its still no excuse for the contempt in which Hornby management seem to be treating what was their target enthusiast market (it may have reverted to more generalist toys now) and no excuse for incorporating poorly designed low cost engineering (Limby power unit) in a premium priced product. Might I suggest that what you see here is what I suggested in post 1121. Hornby have proved good at sorting out the concerns of an individual modeller (SAC Martin) but have failed to do anything to sort the wider problem. Not even acknowledging there is a problem , dismissing it as a rant by a few people on a forum per Pauls post 1110. Possibly they hope if they turn a deaf ear these pesky enthusiasts will just go away.

I can't say I'm surprised at this. With Hornby there is a lot of spin (the Corporate I love working for Hornby DVD as an example) also small things that are easily sorted , get sorted out, requests for spares, individual models requiring repair etc all creating positive PR. However when it comes to something of substance that really needs sorting out they stick their heads in the sand. What contempt for their customer base and I think further underlines the attitude of Mr Martin in the Hornby to make cheap toys thread on this forum. I'll take bets now that the 5Bel has a Limby power unit. In the more positive conversation did Simon Kohler say otherwise?

I congratulate SAC Martin on the way he has objectively pursued this. Having said that, I have some doubts that he will receive any feedback from Hornby whose PR seem to be good promoting new goods but are less conspicuous when there is an issue. Sorry but three weeks and several pages on this thread I think should at least have resulted in some acknowledgement of the issue at least along the lines of "we are working through the issues you raised" . The issue is not just with Hornby. I note you say you haven't had a reply from 2 model railway mag editors (was it Ben Jones that forwarded your concerns to Hornby). Maybe we will see an update in the forthcoming Britains Model Trains which brings "ready to run models together in one place AND compares and rates them" It mentions specifically the models launched in 2011. I look forward with interest to how they've got on with the 4VEP although I do note that in the original Model Rail review it did only score 76%, which is pretty low for a new model. This score did seem to reflect the solid corridor positions and positioning of the motor bogie as it went onto say"it looks the part and runs well". Surely ,given the design defects highlighted by SAC Martin , there will be some comment

They probably wouldn't read it or Mr Martin would dismiss it as one of the chuffer nutters. My suggestion is send it to Simon Kohler and await response. If none then Olddudders has the right idea about the facebook page I would also be inclined to major on the running qualities as it is this that makes it unfit for purpose. The aesthetics while still important could be regarded as an interpretation . To me the show stopper is it fails to run round curves. Just a suggestion. I applaud you for taking this up.

Doesn't it come back to the Schizophrenic nature of Hornby ie one foot in the toy and one foot in the modellers market? The IC225 and Pendolino were pretty good for the toy market. They are built to a certain price point, necessary to sell in trainsets. For that reason they have molded detail and standard limby motors with traction tyres. In some cases that standard is pretty good and will also satisfy the more serious railway modeller, although I do seem to recall there being some debate with derailments on the Pendolino and whether the motor was strong enough to cope with 8/9 car trains. The problem then is that the VEP is for the enthusiast/modeller market yet it looks like it was built to trainset market specs. For that reason you have a Limby motor and solid corridor positions. I really find this last point indefensible. I mean who could have considered this adaquate for an enthusiasts model? You would have thought someone would have questioned this at the design stage. I think its just too tempting for Hornby to take shortcuts and cut the specification of the model because of their trainset background. Why bother with a specific drive train for the VEP when they can get away with their standard Limby power unit. Its probably just too tempting at the project costing committee stage to go for the low cost/high margin option. This is where trainset confusion sets in. What is good enough for the trainset market isn't for the more discerning enthusiast. I think there are still functions in Hornby who don't get that. Bachmann being a model company first and formost don't have that conflict. Which brings us back to Mr Martin. Could it be that Hornby now realise that they can't achieve their margin expectations on these highly detailed models while keeping prices low enough for market acceptance(ie in line with Bachmann) That could lead to slightly lower spec models for the mass market or to them diversifying into what they perceive to be higher margin markets, Olympic taxis, keyrings etc.

Magners Cider. The one where the guys beard is made of bees. It makes my skin crawl and reach for the channel button every time I see it

Our stealth fighters are better. From 2016 we are going to have an aircraft carrier on which there appear to be no aircraft at all. Talk about Stealth! Damned cunning plan ....what?

But the essential truth is for a £140 model would you not expect something better than a Limby motor? It strikes me that Replica have a pretty good unit for MUs and if Bachmann can put an unobtrusive motor on their MPV (although their 150 is distinctly odd) then surely it could have been possible here. Hornby models do cost more than Bachmann so you would expect something a bit special , not just the same mass produced (and therefore presumably cheap) motor that they use for 156s. The solid first class compartment partitions are just amazing. Do you think its just miscommunication between factory and Margate? I can't see any reason for these to be solid. Would it work if you simply use compartments from a 1960s Triang Mk1 composite. You can get them pretty cheap at swapmeets. But then it really shouldn't be necessary. I reckon they'll still sell in droves, however, which I suspect will not motivate Hornby to up their game on this or subsequent models!

The latest Collectors mag had some CADs in them. Would have thought it might arrive for Warley.........2012 !!

Agreed! And it makes the model much more affordable for those who are not too bothered about the above, while those that are bothered can take matters into their own hands

Craig Glad to hear you have taken the layout on. I saw this at SECC and I think at Cathcart as well, where I spent a lot of time just watching the shunting operations. I think it was the sidings near the canal end that gave it a little more opearting interest, although I admit struggling to remember exact details. One thing I can say was that it was the name that drew my initial interest. I thought it was very clever, so I'd definitely keep it. Looking forward to seiing it around the shows again

She is an absolute stunner! Great modeling

In the past Harburns co operated with D&F in Glasgow on the SPT 156. I wonder if that would be poss if Harburn wouldn't go it alone. Or alternatively maybe some co-operation with SRPS on basis that it might be a Caley 439 or J36 I suppose also it doesn't need to be a northern model shop. I'm convinced it is a good business proposition , so it should appeal to others

Very nice. Set firmly in 1979 then?

A quick persusal of SRPS website , which has their accounts on it, shows membership level for 2009 as 1344. I am surprised as itis relatively low. I had thought it would be 10000+. I agree with what has been said about getting some big guns involved- the SRPS is the obvious one as it has both 439 and J36. Could be they need to raise funds . Maybe some sort of canvassing at Bo'ness would yield a better indication of numbers. From the same website, Market Development Manager is Mr John Mayes. The only thing I would say is I'm struck by the fact that they bought an actual 37/4 for £19,800. So financing a model is still going to be a big event for them How about the Glasgow Museum of Transport. Its shutting down in April and the whole thing moves to new premises which I think opens in 2011 or maybe 2012. I know none of the most likely subjects are preserved there - but it might be worth a whirl. Something Scottish could still be a seller for them- with a possible tie into model shops?

Pennine Didn't the Director appear in the LNER poll? If so its probably already well covered and indeed a manufacturer may already be working on it. We can all hope! While not a pre requisite the Director only appeared after the grouping in Scotland. And while I'd certainly have one were it produced, going for a 439, Jumbo or J36 would give pre grouping possibilities and enable CR Blue or NBR liveries , which I think is an important point for marketing

Oh no not the 123 again! Please don't give Hornby another excuse to bring this out in substitution for a 21st Century model. Fair point on the Jones Goods though I'd forgotten all about it!

I think the issue was that you had to report your faulty chassis to your retailer by a certain date (can't remember when- but could it have been 30th April?). If you did, you seem to have got a chassis. If you didn't or your retailer didn't then you are still waiting. I'm not sure this was well publicised at the time. It does seem that some people have lost out.

Other thing to consider is the 2010 Wish list which is about to kick off on MREmag. Might I suggest we vote with a common interest in this one too?

Yes looks very good. the tunnels scene reminds me pretty much of the area around Eglinton Street on the approaches to Glasgow. Looks good

Does look very nice. Happy for all you folks that wanted one. Just wonder if Bachmann going to play a blinder here and announce City of Truro through NRM with perhaps a Dukedog making it into their main range in March?