andyrush

Cascamite it was. Needed to be used in generous quantities and wouldn't work if the ballast was dusty. Guess how I know?

At 28 minutes into Episode 2 of the Ken Burns series on Jazz being aired on PBS, there is a superb sequence from the footbridge at Hatfield showing a Pacific hauled down express passing. Quite what this is doing in a piece about Louis Armstrong going to Chicago, the Lord alone knows!

Sorry, I don't think I explained that very well. Here is a quick crude mock up of what I mean, with apologies for the butchery of your photo.

How about photographing a line of mineral wagons in front of the houses (at scale) and then tinkering around with the size/brightness/contrast in Photoshop?

7/10 for the backscene - it definitely makes a difference. (0/10 for the direction of the light engine, though!)

So long as it all helps the ply being cut in the right shapes..... Andy

A triumph for historical accuracy! Andy

And finally, for today anyway , a few more references: Midland Railway Study Centre 12373 24 February 1888 Architect's Office drawing of Proposed Alteration to Drainage at Leeds Station. Shows plan and utilisation of rooms on platform building and location of adjacent Queens Hotel. National Archives RAIL 1135/105 1938 London and North Eastern and London Midland and Scottish Railways. Leeds City Station West and East Boxes RAIL 431/38 1933-6 Queen's Hotel Leeds, Wellington Station: proposed re-building RAIL 1057/2738 1936 Laying of Foundation Stones of Office and Hotel Buildings at Leeds (Wellington) Station, 7 Oct. 1936. Site plan enclosed Off to listen to Jim Connor talk about the North London Railway now.... Andy

A few more references from the database, this time from the Ken Hoole Study Centre at Darlington: Perspective East Yorkshire: Journal Of The York And East Yorkshire Architectural Society. May, June 1966. Railways: Sunderland; North East Region; Leeds City; Wakefield Westgate; Gateshead; Selby; Harrogate; Durham; Billingham; Berwick. KH.219 Ministry Of Transport. Railway Accident. Report On The Collision Which Occurred On 10th August 1961 At Leeds City Station In The North Eastern Region British Railways. KH.3447 Railway Views. Leeds (East - West). KH.937 British Railways - North Eastern Operating Area. Carriage Working From 18th June, To 9th September, 1962. Br. 31261/1. KH.2673 British Railways - North Eastern Operating Area. Hours Of Opening Of Signal Boxes; Leeds Operating District. 4th. April, 1960 Until Further Notice. X. KH.2643 British Railways - North Eastern Region. Working Timetable Of Passenger Trains. Llth. September 1961 To 17th. June 1962. KH.2189 Westinghouse Brake & Sig. Co. Electro-pneumatic points and colour signal operation, Leeds New. 1937 JFM/5837 Leeds Wellington Goods Yard. Diagram 53, altered to 240, April 1919, revised December 1938. Diagram only JFM/7000/209 Leeds Wellington Goods Yard. Diagram 53A, altered to 240, December 1925, revised December 1938. Table only JFM/7000/210 Front Sheet of 'Leeds New Station. Extension and Enlargement of Station, New Approach Road, Stopping up of Existing Road. Plans & Sections.' 1873 - 1874 NERA 1418-34-02 Digital format only Plan and Sections of Leeds New Station. Scales: Horizontal, ? Chains to one inch. Vertical, ? Feet to an inch. '1873 – 1874 NERA 1418-34-03 Digital format only Plan of Wellington Station. Scale: ? Chains to one inch. 1873 - 1874 NERA 1418-34-04 Digital format only Plan and Section of Wellington Station. Scales: Horizontal. ? Chains to one inch. Vertical. ? Feet to one inch. 1873 - 1874 NERA 1418-34-05 Digital format only Andy

Manchester County Record Office has the following: LMS - Leeds Wellington Station - Demolition of existing buildings and making up new deck A/LNW/1/156 1935 LMS - Leeds Wellington Station - Re-inforcing concrete decking A/LNW/1/157 1936 LMS - Leeds Wellington /City Station - Roof details - Parcels Office A/LNW/1/158 1934-46 LMS - Leeds Wellington - Plans showing new building line to existing buildings A/LNW/1/159 1936-7 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Parcels office - New doors A/LNW/1/160 1935-6 LMS - Leeds City - Station - New concourse - details A/LNW/1/161 1935 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Waiting and refreshment rooms Details A/LNW/1/162 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Ironmongery and door furniture A/LNW/1/163 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/164 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/165 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/166 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/167 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building details A/LNW/1/168 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse - Showcases etc. A/LNW/1/169 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - layout A/LNW/1/170 1937 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - windows A/LNW/1/171 1937-8 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse & platform details A/LNW/1/172 1937-8 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse and station offices - details and layout A/LNW/1/173 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Concourse and entrance A/LNW/1/174 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Offices A/LNW/1/175 1936-8 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - details A/LNW/1/176 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - details A/LNW/1/177 1938 LMS - Leeds City - Station - Office building - details A/LNW/1/178 1937-8 Sounds like some of these may be what you are looking for Andy

The National Archives has a plan of Leeds Wellington under reference RAIL 491/640, but I imagine it will be a little early for your purposes, being dated 1868. Also to be found at the NA is 'West Riding of the County of York. City & County Borough of Leeds. Holbeck widening and Whitehall Junction. Sheet No. 2': plan covering an area from Aire Street to the Leeds and Liverpool Canal and showing stations and railway lines. Scale: plan and horizontal sections 1 inch to 2 chains; vertical sections 1 inch to 40 feet. This is dated 1901. Probably of rather more use would be the large scale track plans from the former BR/OPC collection, now held by the NRM under reference 21159 (3 plans). Good luck with Son of Bradfield, and let me know if you are ever short of exhibition operators! (assuming it is destined to be exhibited) Andy

Caption from the Geograph site: Up iron ore empties passing Killamarsh Central station. View northward, towards Sheffield (Victoria) etc.; ex-GC Sheffield - Nottingham and the South main line. The locomotive is Thompson Class O1 2-8-0 No. 63786, rebuilt 2/49 from ex-GC Class O4 No. 6515 (built 6/18 under Government order). There used to be three stations in Killamarsh on three busy lines, before the obliteration of heavy industry and closure of the productive coal mines in the area. Killamarsh Central station was closed to passengers on 4/3/63 when the ex-GC main Sheffield - Nottingham line was closed as a through route - to Goods in 6/65.

The tablet worn by 63786 is for the loco that is going to work 1E75 0930 Yarmouth - Chesterfield forward from March West via Stamford, probably the March B1 standing behind it. The incoming working from Norwich would have been diagrammed to a diesel by this date. When I was working in the Control Office at Cambridge, I remember a March shed foremen telling me that one of the green carded shed prep and disposal drivers used to wind up photographers at the shed in this fashion. He also used to chalk 'scrap' on perfectly serviceable engines and then rub it off when the cameraman had left! The other 'mystery lamp' in this thread, on 63901 at Annesley, is probably the result of some fireman nicking the convenient one from over the nearest buffer (Class F headcode), for use on his own train..... Andy

Certainly could be, possibly at Biggleswade with the front utility van, where the train was booked to stand for 8 minutes in the only timetable I have (1953). The other major place for fruit and veg south of St Neots was Sandy, I think, where the train is shown with a 5 minute call. Not long enough to stop and attach pre loaded vans as well as doing parcels work in the platform, I wouldn't have thought. Other than these suggestions, if the vans are loaded they would have originated from Kings Cross passenger station (in the 'milk dock' area?) or, if empty, been consigned there with 'passenger rated' traffic. I agree that there were lots of relatively recently built cattle wagons in other traffic by 1962, not least for fruit in East Anglia, as evidenced by shots on the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway. I remember being told that at one time Whitemoor Down Yard had separate roads for 'clean' and 'dirty' cattle wagons (no longer the case by 1965) Andy

Right, back from the wilds of France to near the GN main line courtesy of TGV 6232, Eurostar 9047 and a 10 minute connection to the 1840 from Kings Cross. As promised, I have had a look at what marshalling details I can find for parcels trains from Kings Cross at the time of the Ken Fairey photo so ably reproduced by TW in model form. The first question was, what train is it? As far as I know, both from train watching days at Hitchin in 1959 and 1960, and later working on the line in 1963, there was only one regular daytime down long distance parcels train, No.842 12.35 Kings Cross - York which later became 3N09 1225 Kings Cross - York. The only marshalling details I have for this train are courtesy of Robert Carroll's excellent Dropbox site accessed via the BR Coaching Stock Yahoo Group and neatly bracket the date in question. Here are the formations of the train as it would have been seen at St Neots: Summer 1954 842 12.35 Kings Cross – York Vanfit St Albans – Doncaster (WO) Salvation Army News BG Kings Cross – Edinburgh Parcels Post B Kings Cross – Newcastle Parcels B Kings Cross – Darlington Parcels BG Kings Cross – York (Stove) Laundry and parcels B Kings Cross – Doncaster Intermediate station parcels B Kings Cross – Leeds Cen Parcels and Parcels Post B Kings Cross – Bradford Ex Parcels and Parcels Post BZ Kings Cross – Lincoln Parcels and Parcels Post B Kings Cross – Grimsby Parcels and Parcels Post B Kings Cross – Peterborough Parcels and Parcels Post Winter 1964 3N09 12.25 Kings Cross – York BG Biggleswade – Glasgow Flowers in season BG Kings Cross – Edinburgh Parcels Post BG Kings Cross – Newcastle Parcels BG Kings Cross – York Laundry and parcels BG Kings Cross – Newcastle Intermediate station parcels BG Kings Cross – Doncaster Parcels and Parcels Post B Kings Cross – Leeds Cen Parcels and Parcels Post BG Kings Cross – Bradford Ex Parcels and Parcels Post PMV Kings Cross – Lincoln Parcels and Parcels Post B Kings Cross – Grimsby Parcels and Parcels Post PMV Kings Cross – Peterborough Parcels and Parcels Post TSO Hitchin – Peterborough ECS for 3.07 Grimsby BCK Hitchin – Peterborough ECS for 3.07 Grimsby At first sight, there doesn't appear to be much correlation between the 1962 picture and either of the above, but if you ignore the two cattle wagons, there are 5 'big' vans followed by an assortment of vanfits which nearly matches the earlier formation with the stove BG for the guard to ride in (although he probably could manage without a stove in July!). My recollection of the train when I saw it was that it had an even more heterogeneous appearance, with fewer vanfits and more exotica such as bogie siphons and ex LMS 6 wheel and bogie vans. So. we still can't explain the cattle wagons and I'm going to stick to my guess until somebody can prove me wrong (with a circular amending the formation, perhaps!). And if anybody knows of actual marshalling details of the train for 1962 (and 1959 for Gilbert), it would be most interesting (to me, at least..... ) Andy

And here are some pictures to go with the green diesel! All taken on 5 February 1967

That's pretty close. Brilliant! Pedant mode suggests that the up and down formations would have been different, but I'm not near any references to prove it. Pedant mode off! I'm sure a similar formation on Peterborough North would look just as good, but whether it could be photographed or not is a different matter

By the mid 60's the 'grading' system for deciding whether/where wagons would be/should be repaired appeared to have fallen into disuse. Whitemoor used to get wagons labelled for repair at Tuxford, for example, only to find when they were offered on a train to Lincoln they would be declined as Tuxford were no longer dealing with that grade of cripple. They would then clutter up several roads in the down yard until the C&W people 'regraded' them which inevitably meant they needed shunting out for several different destinations. Made the shunting figures look good though.... . Then there were all the various types of surplus mineral wagons, which were a story unto themselves! Andy PS Have you got enough different types of parcels van to replicate the Ken Fairey shot? If so, can we have a suitable 'Picture of the Day?

Gilbert Brake van payment orders were made (on the Eastern Region at least) by the Regional Control Office at Liverpool Street (York after 1969) and were based on 'declared surpluses and shortages' that were phoned over to Control Offices as part of the morning wagon reports. Sometimes Whitemoor had enough brake vans on hand to be able to supply the 20 ordered to Mansfield Con on one train! A watch on brake vans being moved around as 'payments' would give you a clue as to the relative popularity of types of van with the guards at any particular place! Andy

In addition to the Peterborough shots noted by Michael, Ken Fairey took a number of pictures around St Neots, both at the station and at Rowley's Lane bridge (133) to the north. Some of these can be seen in the same Flickr collection, and give useful information on trains (as opposed to the chuffing things on the front!) http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/7845416924/in/photostream/ shows one of the wonderfully mixed parcels trains that used to entertain us (including a couple of cattle wagons, presumably empty after vegetable traffic use). Using 'Ken Fairey St Neots' in Google Images will find some more pictures. Andy

Perhaps a bit early for you? 22 September 1909 But I do have some late 1960's views - I can put them on the scanning pile if you are interested. Andy

The roof certainly adds a real wow factor to the whole visible layout and gives balance to what the eyes could otherwise see as a train dominated scene. Talking of trains, a perusal of the April 1957 copy of the Railway Observer seems to offer the opportunity of more tender first working in the down direction (in addition to the empties from Little Barford): 'Daily coal trains are now running from the Peterborough area to the new power station at Goldington, Bedford. WD 2-8-0's are normally used and the trip involves a rather complicated engine reversal at Sandy in both directions, which would be unnecessary if the wartime Sandy North Curve could be used. 90683 was on this duty on 16th March'. A further snippet from the March 1957 RO details the locos used on the ten football excursions from Peterborough to Huddersfield via Retford for the fourth round of the FA Cup on 26 January. (And these were in addition to the ten from Peterborough East via the LM route) Regards Andy

Hello Ron It is good to see the pictures. I have the following information recorded: Exhibition Station Wembley opened 28.04.1923 at 0m 40ch approx on the up side (outside) of what was known as the Wembley Stadium Circular Railway. It was renamed Wembley Exhibition station at an unknown date and again renamed Wembley Stadium station by February 1928. It officially closed to passengers on 01.09.1969, although it was last used on 18.05.1968. I hope this is of interest. Andy Rush The Ruschbahnfuhrer

Enderby branch, Joint LNW/MR, 2m 31ch long Andy

There were 6 BR tracks at this point at Stratford in 1988, named, from the north, Down and Up Cambridge, Down and Up Main, Down Electric (serving Platform 8 upon which the photographer is standing) and Up Electric. The two 31's are on the Down Main, probably on the Mile End - Marks Tey sand empties [? type of wagon correct for this?] with Channelsea curve in the background. The 47 is on a loaded train from Ripple Lane coming through platform 9 onto the Up Cambridge line which diverges immediately for the Channelsea curve, giving the train the choice of turning right via High Meads for the Temple Mills direction or (more likely) carrying straight on for Lea Junction, Victoria Park and the North London line.