Kenton

is that delivery by NG hoppers and departure by standard gauge?

Phil

Maybe the kit was built with glue rather than soldered - some folk do such mad things

If that is the case expect a lot more to fall off when the body is dipped (don't forget to strain the contents of the tray)

There is something that I don't understand about the prices of kits. I expect to pay more for 7mm than 4mm - there is more brass and more detail (in theory at least) Yet you can pay many ??100s for a 7mm kit compared to 4mm and still get less parts. Also it seems to bear no resemblance to the age and quality of the kit. I would expect a modern CAD produced kit where everything fits without extra work to be more expensive than an old kit first issued in the 80's that requires effort to build. Again not the case.

it sounds like you have taken on more work than it was worth with this one - but see it through as it will be worth the satisfaction.

28ten, truly lovely bit of work. So much more is possible in 7mm but makes it no less easy to accomplish. The small bits remain just as small.

Some very neat soldering - I'm impressed.

You mentioned that the brass was thin. I was once told that was a plus point of Falcon kits because it makes it easier to fold and bend.

It is so easy to criticise these kits (I know I'm as guilty) but it is always worth remembering that they are nearly all very old by todays standards, were drawn by hand and the instructions typed on an old portable typewriter (or something representing one)

The colour of the brass really is that red ? or is it just my PC playing up again

Must say Araldite is a bit like cheating though

BTW how much did you pay for the that delectable rivet machine if you don't mind me asking?

Hi Darren

No problem asking - I can't remember the exact price but I think it was about ??95 -so not exactly cheap - but it is a precision tool and is extremely well made. I used to use a copper "nail" and a hammer which sort of worked ok. London Road Models also produce a cheapish alternative which is along the lines of a sliding drop weight on a centre punch - works of course, but IMO not much better than a hammer and nail, and again I cannot remember how much it cost.

At the end of the day it is always a bit of a balancing act between spending on new fancy tools and spending on another kit (I could have bought 2 more NBL-MAN 040DH kits to practice on for the price of the rivet press). But I probably start a new brass kit about every fortnight and so there becomes a point when the ease of use and end result justifies the outlay on good tools.

BTW: G W Models is not on the web (the guy who runs it is a bit of a character, and can be found at most of the good expos, particularly in the south) contact details are: 11 Crosham Close, Lancing, BN15 9LE (01903) 767231 - I'm sure he can give you up to date prices.

There are smaller and larger models available but as I generally build 4mm and now 7mm kits this one does the business.

That answers my question, rsu and solder paste is definitely not the way to do this, most solder pastes have very active (and corrosive) flux in them. Phosphoric acid is much safer, also your rsu heats everything up, what you want is local heat (quickly) just around the nut.<br />Michael Edge

But Michael, as I said above:

I use an RSU for most kitbuilding soldering tasks with solder creams. Though here used my usual Antex 25W - sometimes it is just easier to wield what is at hand and i had just used that to run round the inner edges of the footplate.

Yes, used a 25W Antex - and in most things 4mm have never had any problems with heat output.

The solder cream (Carrs range) is actually far less corrosive than most phosphoric acid fluxes - it has an organic base.

The issue here was purely carelessness with the supplied nut and bolt followed by my own poor quality and brass replacements.

The RSU is superior for small items on larger items as it not only acts as a third hand (you can hold a part in place with the tip, apply heat, remove heat and then remove the RSU electrode) but also because the heating is very localised. It is also great for overlays and laminations. Its biggest downfall is in the ability to seam and patch/fill with solder.

So much more satisfying having done it yourself rather than bought in, in the end anyway. Springing an 0-4-0 ? the debate rages on

When I tried that, the brass 'flattened' a bit between the formers.

Ha that is a common complaint - me2 - I've even tried annealing the brass but that doesn't seem to help as it is pretty soft quality anyway.

I guess these days the washouts would be pre-etched to save all the potential of drilling out of alignment and to make the "kit" less of a scratch aid.

Anyway, you have made a pretty impressive job of it

You seem to be having a lot of trouble soldering the nuts to the footplate top

I hope I did not give the impression it was the fault of the kit - It most certainly was not.

All down to my hamfistedness I am afraid, that and trying to do things at the wrong time of day (for me).

I use an RSU for most kitbuilding soldering tasks with solder creams. Though here used my usual Antex 25W - sometimes it is just easier to wield what is at hand and i had just used that to run round the inner edges of the footplate.

Having made a mess of one of the nuts and cross-threaded one of the "expensive" bolts into it - I resorted to what I had in the spares box - some poor quality brass Obviously a mistake - and now need to stock up again with some of better quality. I have had similar problems with this in the past so it is not new. Hopefully with the other's in the kit I'll be more careful.

Congratulations on becoming a grandad Doesn't that make you feel really old

I built the Judith Edge North British/Paxman 0-4-0 a few years ago - this has a jackshaft as well, with articulated rods.

Another very good choice ... and I must say I was/will be tempted ... but hardly S&DJR running ... in fact very difficult prototype with only 3 built. A much older kit though so probably the swing arm compensation is a new addition to these new NBL-MAN kits.

Michael thank you very much for your comments - very much appreciated.

The beams are supposed to be fitted against the frames, no mention is made of adding bearings as in this kit they are doubled, this gives adequate bearing surface. If bearings are added they should be on the inner face.

I did indicate my addition of bearings was a personal deviation from your instructions, the outcome being "on my own head" whilst giving my reasons. But it is a point well worth repeating.

I have found that using screws for these pivots leads to greater wear from the screw thread turning in the frames, pins or rivets are better.

Nice to know that alternatives were looked at. My suggestion with using screws was more intended at getting around the problem I had with using pivots and not soldering them solid. I had not thought through the additional problem which they would introduce of wear or working loose.

Your unidentifiable frame spacer is in fact a scrap piece, the original drawing was modified to shorten one of the spacers, to preserve the tags this piece was left in.

:D you got me on that one

Given the wheelbase is held from the fixed front axle by the pitch of the coupling rods, and that hornblocks have been intentionally omitted on the rear axle, what function do the 'swinging arms' provide?

A distinct wobble

... sorry shouldn't be so flippant

The front axle is fixed but as you can see on the latest blog page the swing arms give an amazing amount of transverse movement. Far more than I envisaged, but that could be my construction at fault. I cannot see it being any other way. The coupling rods are not going to do anything to help or they will be so tight that no movement will be possible. There is no doubt that the suspension does work with about 2mm in either direction about that knife edge.

I first tried a wire across the frame for the rear pivot points as previously discussed. (going against the instructions) This was even worse, so I reverted to the instructions. The pin could perhaps be a bit tighter to the frames, but having soldered one solid... Perhaps a crankpin/16BA nut+bolt might have been better and to some extent adjustable.

I think the lack of a bearing face outside the frame only helps to exaggerate the transverse movement - hopefully this will be corrected by packing with washers - something that would also have been required with hornblocks - but I don't really like to do that.

I also experimented by soldering Exactoscale-style square faceplates onto the bearings.

The one thing I have found with using hornblocks is that lack of a bearing face/rim in contact with the wheels. The inevitable solution being addition of washers as spacers to prevent slop.

Yes Miss Prism,

Having battered this one about in my head and on here, I think I agree with you - the principle is just that. Made more complicated somewhat by the way that the swing arms operate.

I hope I have not confused things by describing the jackshaft axles. They are most definitely NOT part of the suspension system they are in fixed bearings in the frame and are only connected to it by the rods articulated on the rear axle crankpin. The problem with the drawings is not so much understanding them as their total practical absence in terms of construction detail.

The beam in your diagram is in the kit as a flat "knife edge" and is not horizontal across the chassis but in the longitudinal plane. It is, however, fixed to the frames by being soldered on the underside of one of the frame spacers. The "pin point" in the description is left up to the kitbuilder to interpret and may mean the addition of an actual pin soldered to this "knife edge" to correspond to the actual longitudinal axis of the knife, thereby minimizing the contact area with the axle. But I would have thought that the knife could have been designed to the exact dimension (height) to be sufficient. We shall see, if I take the decision to follow this mode of suspension.

I probably will defer my decision until Monday as modelling time is restricted over the next few days.

Miss Prism - thanks for your interest.

1 Is the rod coupling the coupled axles and the jackshaft a single piece etch or not?

constructed as separate overlays - will be mounted on same rear wheel crank pin.

3 Is the single-point ("knife edge") compensator on the front axle?

No, from what I can make out from the scale CAD drawing (with a strong magnifying glass) the "knife edge" rests on the frame spacer above the rear axle and a "pivot pin" presumably central to the "knife edge"/frame (but here a diagram would help the kitbuilder

4 Is the kit intended to be driven on the rear wheel?

Sorry thought i had stated that it is front axle driven - though that is only deduced from the drawings - I have not yet decided on the gearbox/motor combination - but do not expect it will change that fact.

5 From which transverse axis on the chassis are the (I assume two) 'swinging arms' pivoted? (And why do they need large cut outs to clear the jackshaft axle?)

Correct two (made up of 2 overlays each to give bearing purchase) pivot on a bar across the back of the frames. if there were no cut outs to freely clear the jackshaft axle the would interfere with the axle.

The following image should give you the idea of the jackshaft cranks/weights (note - probably not the correct term) that are made up from 4 overlays each and are push fit on the stepped end of the jackshaft axle. (correct quartering will be needed)

This 0-4-0 with a coupled jackshaft should be treated, in suspension terms, as an 0-4-0. Not an 0-6-0. The only way it would have to be treated as an 0-6-0 is if the coupling rod and jackshaft rod are a single rigid item, which I hope they are not! If the coupling rod and jackshaft rod are a single rigid item, you will have little alternative to building it all with rigid axles.

From the way I am reading the instructions and observing the parts (so I may be wrong)

The jackshaft is a supplied as a separate turned 1/8" axle with 2.65mm steps at each end. The axle is mounted in its own fixed bearings in the frames and eventually the cranks (made up of layered etches) are a inference push fit on the steps. Their rods being connected to the wheel crank pins in the usual way (16BA screws and nuts). The jackshaft itself is therefore fixed in its own vertical and longitudinal axis but the rods enable some potential semi-vertical movement through the rods. The compensation design is such that the swinging arms of the compensation have large cut-outs to clear the jackshaft axle. These arms are designed to take bearings for the rear axle and the rear axle frame bearings are left out. In this way the compensation is provided by the swinging arms that are pivoted on a rod at the back of the frame (2 points) and on the "knife edge" (third point)

I hope that is a bit clearer :shrug:

What have you opted for in the way of suspension at this stage?

Still very much "suspended"

My normal approach to kitbuilding is to build as the kit maker intended - not generally wishing to add what wasn't designed in.

But I'll wait a day or so to gauge forum opinion

... now where is that option to add a forum poll ?

I'm fairly comfortable building it any way.

Darren the footplate looks straight at the moment so it is looking good. But be aware that it is very easy to introduce a twist in them due to the rather feeble brass used and that big open space in the middle..

Falcon kits were never known for their comprehensive instructions (very few kit makers are IMO) and at one point there was a lot of talk about them being updated and re-written.

It is very easy to forget that these kits were nearly all designed many years ago and from hand drawings - none of this new fangled CAD stuff. The odd missing rivet point is the least of the kitbuilder's problems ... anyway who's counting them ?

Very useful and informative, Kenton. I haven't got to tackling hornblock yet but I'm sure I will refer back to this when I do.

Thanks. The kit is very good and the instructions supplied, very similar to those above, are complete with drawings. You don't have to use an RSU, a soldering iron will do.

The only thing I would emphasize is the use of lots of solder mask on and around the adjuster and on the inside of the guide. I wiped much of it off for that last photo. This is to prevent soldering the whole assembly solid when soldering into the frames.

The instruction to solder the hornguide into the frames before assembly is worth considering, but I find it even more fiddly to assemble that way. It is a personal preference - others may wish to add their experience?

A shame about the PDK kit being off the "fast track" but then find me a kitbuilder other than Metropolitan that doesn't have some unfinished kit lying around.

Interesting choice, the Barclay, and in 7mm as well - that's another scale you're working on (I forgot the 5") but a part built one is adventurous - taking on another builder's bag of nails.

Ah I see you are using big boy's tools - well beyond the scope and space limitations of the average kitbuilder - and with that, even using superior quality parts to supplement the build

.... isn't that cheating just a tiny bit

Hardly a case of built as intended in the instructions.

I want to be the first to wish you all the good luck in the world - you will need it

Post plenty of pics of the build please as I think I have a crushed one somewhere in a scrap metal box. When I finally lose my rag with a kit - it usually lends itself to a temper tantrum IIRC this was one of them.

Though having said that I also recall having seen one built on a layout - so it is possible with skillful metal work ... but am not sure about that time frame and your sanity

Wonderful - all that space to swing a cat in '

Nowhere enough unfinished kits - shows signs of determination to complete something started.

Do you find dusting a problem ?

Hi Phil,

I'll bother to look at it - if you keep it updated

Wasn't there a certain brass kit started on the old forum?

... and posts of your 1:1 scale work?

Mikel