buffalo

Maybe it was his research that led to Kernow not offering one with GREAT WESTERN, though a plain green one would be possible. Yes, I know those photos, but most of the others I've seen with the short chimney are undated or poorly dated. As I said, it was the norm up to about 1930 for all saddle tank classes not to carry any lettering. Nick

Surely, it would only take a few minutes to remove the shirtbutton and apply GREAT WESTERN transfers? However, before everyone gets too excited, perhaps we should be looking for evidence that any of the class actually carried this lettering? Few, if any, GWR saddle tanks carried it before 1930 and only some thereafter, although it is not a class I know well, I don't recall seeing an example. Does anyone have a photo? Nick

I think they probably are! I'm doing one of each in 4mm, the pannier an early conversion around 1910 and the saddle in c1900 condition. I'll have to get the saw out for the latter... Nick ps. If you ever need to do a saddle, there's an excellent John Copsey article on them with many photos in GWRJ 25.

See pE45, first para under "Details--Saddle Tanks": All the drawings in Russell show a 6'3" overhang from rear axle to buffer beam, but this is the extended form. Several photos show the older short form, but most are extended. The two clearest examples are the works grey photos of 1941 as a saddle tank in 1896 (figure 298) and 1923 as a pannier in 1924 (figure 317). The differences in the length of bunker and shape behind the steps is very clear. 1923 also has an extra vertical row of rivets that probably indicate the original length. These can be seen on many other examples. The difference is not confined to pannier conversions as figure 310 shows 1961 with extended frames whilst still carrying a saddle tank. On the other hand, the great survivor 2007 seems to have retained the short frames to the end. Nick ps. the extensions appear to have started well before the fitting of Collett bunkers. Photo E84 in the RCTS volume shows 2012 when converted to pannier tanks in 1910 with the extension.

Not having seen the Branchlines kit, I wouldn't know. It wouldn't be the first time there were errors in a kit. However, my post refered almost entirely to the Dapol parts and I assume the Branchlines parts take account of the running plate differences as mentioned by Horsetan, as well as several others not mentioned by either of us. At the Dapol end, you'll also need to take account of the lower boiler pitch (7'9") of the Bulldog compared with 8'61/4" on the City. The Bulldog running plate is, of course, much lower because of the smaller driving wheels but the cab itself is also lower and shorters (not sure what Horsetan meant about making them longer). btw all except the first Martin Finney example in Horsetan's links are 'Birds', the last form of Bulldog to be build. They have much deeper outer frames than the previous straight framed type. Rather than us drip feeding you different dimensions, you would be much better off getting your hands on a copy of Jim Russell's A Pictorial Record of GW Engines, vol 2. It has many photos and drawings of the two classes at different stages of their lives. Nick ps. don't Branchlines provide any information about modifying the Dapol parts?

Maybe, I think I have one at the bottom of a cupboard but haven't looked at it for more than ten years Nick

A Bulldog is hardly a "version" of a City! There are many detail differences and there was much more variation amongst the Bulldogs. Perhaps the most obvious difference is in the boilers. Whilst most Bulldogs went through parallel, short and long cone boilers, most were eventually fitted with Standard No 2 boilers which are about 6" smaller in diameter at all points than the No 4 boilers on Cities. The fireboxes were similarly about 6" lower. Both classes had shorter smokeboxes prior to superheating, though in the 1930s some Bulldogs were fitted with the shorter No 3 boilers, so had longer smokeboxes, extended backwards to make up the difference. If you want to model a Bulldog, you really need to choose a specific engine at a specific date, preferably one with some good photos. Nick

I rather think that Emily welcomed the railway as a reliable means of getting coal away from her pits. The Somerset Coal Canal, which passed through both pits, was in decline and road transport was expensive. Strictly speaking, it was her older sister Anna who inherited the pits and signed the colliery siding agreement with the railway in 1882, but it appears that Emily was always more directly involved with the day-to-day management, even before Anna's death in 1893. Emily took her role as lady of the manor very seriously, apart from acting as church organist, she is said to have been a good employer and to have taken the welfare of the local people very seriously. Yes, I'm sure a few horseboxes will be needed and perhaps the occasional family saloon, though I've not seen photos of either on the line. I have some of Andrew's figures, as yet unpainted, so maybe I'll have several Emily figures for different occasions. Nick

Thanks, Mikkel. If you only had to look twice then some filler is definitely needed The autotrailer has been progressing well though I'm now in the middle of the rather tedious task of adding thirty-four bolection mouldings... I'd not looked at Shire Scenes since that original topic so was surprised to find that Dart Castings were now doing the T49. Unlike several of their other kits it includes ends and other parts so is almost a complete body kit. I was quite pleased with it as it is dimensionally very close. The only problem is the non-brake end is a little wide and it is difficult to fold the tabs that attach to the sides tightly enough. As a result, the non-brake end is fractionally wider than the brake end, though it doesn't really show without measuring. I really hope someone picks up the Mainly Trains etches and castings as my supply is dwindling rapidly. The lamp irons may have been a bit of a joke, but most of the 4-wheel coach parts were very good. Unlike many coal mining districts, much of the Somerset Coalfield is set in rural farming country. The area has not always been prosperous but a proportion of the population might be described as 'comfortable'. There are certainly a small number of quite substantial houses of the 19th and early 20th centuries dotted about the Cam Valley. Then there was the Jarrett family, in particular Emily Jarrett who owned and managed the collieries from 1863 until her death in 1911, after which they were bought by Sir Frank Beauchamp in 1914. The Jarretts lived at Camerton Court, rebuilt on the site of the old manor house in 1848-40, situated next to the church and overlooking the pits and railway from the south side of the valley. She was, however, described in a newspaper obituary as a fine horsewoman who never used motor cars. Whether she used the train I don't know, but there certainly was the potential for first class passengers to arrive at Camerton station. Nick

As you say, it's very unlikely the halt had a blue sign, but they do look nice. Given that these were enamel, I wonder if a thin coat of satin or gloss varnish might improve it? On the lighting, the halt probably had the three lights shown on the plan on p66 of Maggs & Beale when built. Compare the photo on p45 of Radford and Timsbury that opened only a year earlier. Despite the clean appearance in the photo on p63, the date given was more than six months before the line re-opened to passengers so the halt was not in use. Perhaps the lights had been taken away during the war after the end of passenger services in 1915? Nick

Unfortunately, we're in the realms of gravity and all those other forces that do no scale. There should be very little friction between a steel pinpoint and a brass cup bearing. If you want a more true-to-prototype form, there's always the Exactoscale parallel 1mm axle and matching bearing, a similar shape to a prototype wagon journal if a little underscale for most. I've not found these to be more free-running that a pinpoint bearing. Nick

Duller, certainly, as the coking process removes the oily and gas components of the coal. It has a porous surface, tends to be quite rounded and has little of the shiny surfaces seen in coal. See, for example, this photo. Smaller than what? The screens at a colliery separated coal into several different sizes depending on its intended purpose. Look at some photos of loaded mineral wagons. These range from near dust through small domestic sizes, typically three to six inches, to larger industrial coals that could be a foot or two across. Coke sizes typically are in the medium to large range, say three to nine inches, though I've seen larger examples. Nick

After more than four years on the back burner the Camerton branch coach project has been resurrected. The story of how I found out that it was really a U25 and how I made one from a Shire Scenes T49 kit is covered in this blog entry. Nick

Thanks, Miss P. For the cutting I clamped the flat sides between a small engineers' square and a thin piece of plywood. Using the square as a guide, the first few strokes were flat to establish a line then it was finished by cutting at a very shallow angle. No Ratio parts involved, though I'm hovering between using one of their roof pieces and trying to roll a three-arc out of brass. The springs and axleboxes are, IIRC, from Mainly Trains, probably no longer available but alternatives may be available from Dart Castings who also supplied the buffers. As yet, there are no door ventilators but I intend to use some of the IKB castings from the BGS as these are much beefier than the etched ones in the kit. On the underside, the brake parts below the guard's handle were included with the Shire Scenes etch, the A frames from the Bill Bedford axleguard etch, the vacuum cylinder and V hangers are old Mainly Trains parts, and the gas cylinder was turned from a piece of brass rod. Nick

Hi Adrian, Sorry I missed your comment earlier, but I'm glad hear that almost everything fits with the narrower frames. What sort of pickups are you using? I used the Gibson plungers as allowed for in the kit. I refitted the springs with a little backing plate behind the spring hangers, but left them until all else was done. I then just stuck them on with a spot of superglue with the intention that they could easily be snapped off and re-glued if/when I need to take it apart again. Nick

We've seen several GWR 4-wheel coaches on the blogs in recent weeks so I thought I would add one that I've been working on. The origins of this project go back more than four years to this topic in the early days of the current incarnation of RMweb and long before I started on the current incarnation of my Camerton layout. I'd almost forgotten it until I was reminded by a post by Miss Prism in this topic. The original intention had been to identiy the unusual brake coach used on passenger and mixed trains between Hallatrow and Camerton before the opening of the extension to Limpley Stoke. The topic ended with me assuming that the coach was a T49, much like the one recently restored at Didcot. Since then, a few things have happened. Firstly, I came accross a mention of the branch coach being a brake composite. This probably makes more sense than a brake third as there were a few folk in Camerton at the time who would not have travelled third class. Then I found a figure caption in an article by Richard Kelham on the Cam valley collieries in BRJ No9 (1985) which said that the coach was a U25, and closer inspection of the photo in the Maggs & Beale book showed that there was indeed a larger gap between the ventilators of the third and fourth compartments. This is poor reproduction of the photo in question (ignore the date, it's certainly no later than 1907, probably earlier). In the original topic, Mikkel had suggested using some Shire Scenes parts to make the end ducket. Well since then, Shire Scenes faded away and was resurrected by Dart Castings. After I was reminded of the old topic I found that Dart Castings were now selling a T49 kit so I began to think about whether this could be converted to a U25. All that was needed was to chop out a 3mm wide section in the panelling between the fourth compartment and guards van and insert it between the third and fourth compartments, thus creating the wider first class compartment. So, out with the razor saw. The first picture below shows the Shire Scenes T49 sides and ends, but the second side has been cut and re-arranged (don't worry about the alignment, its not soldered yet). The next photo shows the same side with all parts soldered together, but before forming the tumblehome. The ends were formed and added, together with a brass floor, solebars made from brass channel and Bill Bedford axleguards. The Shire Scenes kit only covers the body and a few detail parts and is intended to be assembled on a Ration kit underframe. I went with brass because it is my preferred medium Footboards were made up from brass angle, various underframe details came from a variety of sources or were made by hand. Having just said I prefer brass, you'll notice the partitions are made of plasticard... So to bring us up to date, I sprayed it with primer today and will need to use a little bit of filler to paper over some of the cracks. I'll probably spray the underframe black tomorrow, but it will then have to wait until I finish the current project (a David Geen Diagram L autrotrailer for use when the Limpley Stoke extension is opened) so that they can be painted together... Finally, I've added an underneath view as I noticed I hadn't taken any earlier. Nick

I've no idea if they do a suitable gauge, I just meant ordinary spark plug or similar feeler gauges from Halfords, etc. Nick

You really don't need a jig to make the V. If you're worried about filing the angles correctly, try the Brian Harrap approach. As for the wing rails, just bend to match the Templot output and adjust using a piece of suitably sized flat metal sheet or feeler gauge set to the required gap. Nick

Try posting in the Prototype Questions forum, you're far more likely to get an answer there. Blogs really aren't for asking questions. Nick

I can appreciate the points made by Miss P and Martin, but I think they ignore what Nick is trying to achieve. I may be wrong, but I think that is to capture the essence of Horrabridge and, to me, the curve through the platforms is an essential characteristic of the station. I spent about three years fiddling with alternative plans for Camerton where there is a similar curve around the colliery spoil tip, but I needed a reverse curve to lead into an L shape quite unlike the prototype. After trying to build two versions of this I gave up and went back to a linear layout simply because the reverse curve was not in tune with the spirit of the place. However, I don't think anything so drastic is needed here. I'm not convinced that contrived excuses are needed if the line is running along the edge of a hillside, reverse curves are hardly unknown on the Devon brances. If anything, I might try to amend the curve at the left hand end of the plan so as to straighten the section between the bridge and level crossing and so reduce the effect of the reverse curve so close to the station. At the other end of the station, the tracks between the goods shed and the start of the retaining wall might be pushed back and the top of the slope behind the quarry moved towards the edge of the board. Nick

Yes, but let's not forget that standardisation on the GWR began with Gooch's Fire Fly class and developed long after Churchward. The 1366 is, and bears all the hallmarks of, a late Collett era pannier tank. Interestingly, Churchward's only contribution to dock tanks was to give Holcroft the task of designing the 1361 class. His remit was to take all the existing patterns and templates for the old ex-Cornwall Mineral Railway 1392s and bring the details into line with current Swindon practice. The result was perhaps the most anachronistic design of the Churchward era. The different routes taken by injector overflow pipes have been mentioned. The pipe through the running plate was the norm from the earliest use of injectors until at least WW2. Even 1600s were built like this under BR, although early photos of 94XX show some with an outside pipe, at least on the left hand side. All 1366s were probably built like with the pipe through the running plate though, like many surviving panniers, were probably changed in BR days. Nick edit to correct my spelling of 'pannier' as 'saddle'

The nearest chimney would be that on the 54XX and 64XX. The dimensions (about 3'3" high, 1'41/2" diameter and 2'0" across the widest point at the top) are prety much the same as those on later 2021 and small boilered 1076 classes (in pannier form) and are common to almost all panniers with flat tank tops, i.e. where the smokebox does not protrude through the top of the tanks. Metros and 517s in later form and 48XX all have the same dimensions, but you would need to flatten the base because they fit directly on the swokebox. Nick ps. I believe the 16XX chimney is somewhat shorter.

So is the To Carry script above the number and several other features. How long has that link to the large image been there? I'd not noticed it before. I wonder if it brings us any closer to identifying the wooden ended tilt wagon? Nick

Rivetting: I have a posh (not the poshest) press but rarely use it. Mostly, I use a blunted scriber and move the handle through a two to three inch diameter circle about three or four times, depending on the thickness of the material. It can be a bit hard on the fingers, so sometimes I use a drop hammer type as described by Simon. As he says, you can make them quite easily, but mine came from London Road Models and only cost a few quid. I usually use lead sheet or hardwood backing. Nick

Yes, though it might be better to click on the "Manufacturers" red button, then find "MSE" in the list, rather than "Product types" then one of the "Signal..." categories. These will give you all MSE products at all scales. Alternatively, try the red Search button then in the form select your scale and select "MSE" under manufacturer. That will reduce the size of the list considerably. You can add further constraints if you like to reduce it further. Nick