RandyWales

Hi again... When I built my 7mm micro Maenol Mine, I used three de-canvassed oil painting frames glued together. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14287-maenol-mine-an-update/?p=131012 They are extremely lightweight, sturdy and have stood the test of time. Randall

Hi... I need some advice please.... The images show St Nicholas Church (aka Swansea Seamen's Mission) which I have been constructing for the Swansea club's 7mm South Dock layout. The roof is laid with scribed strips of card. I jibbed out of laying individual slates on the curved Apse, my argument being it's in the process of being re-roofed...with a convenient ladder laid against the wall. Our group leader says I should grow a pair and crack on and finish it, but all my test pieces have looked rubbish. Can I ask the esteemed collective for suggestions, please. Randall

Why to is it, it is that I have missed this thread? I've been majorly dizzied watching these videos... Lovin' the soundtracks... Randall

Thanks Steve... I ask because I'm just about to repaint the first of my re-windowed Skytrex Mk1s. I will be spraying mine...I've bought the Railmatch acrylics myself too... I haven't sprayed acrylic before so touch wood it'll be straightforward. I've looked at those transfers...they look like the bees knees. Thanks for the heads up Randall

Hi Steve... Love the job you're doing on the Easybuilds....Can I ask which make of paint you've used, and is it enamel or acrylic? Randall

Hi again... Here's a demo of a new product from Bachmann and Bluerail Trains... The trains are controlled wirelessly from the App to a Bluerail chip in the locomotive. The tablet or phone is also paired with the Bluetooth speaker onboard the train. It's only a matter of time before the App is capable of transmitting specific locomotive sounds rather than the generic ones we hear in the video. Cheap and cheerful at the moment, but the potential is huge. I suggest those with a tablet or smartphone download the free App and have a play and assess the possibilities for themselves. There is a thread dedicated to this topic in the DCC Topics area with several videos. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95379-Bachmann-bluetooth-locomotive-control/ regards Randall

Hi again... Quick update...using Bluerail to control the trains and Bluetooth to send sounds to the loco or adjacent stock...a step up from the sounds being emitted from the tablet or phone. A very practical method for cheap onboard-the-locomotive sounds especially for 7mm and above. I reckon it's only a matter of time until the user can choose the sounds to be transmitted. regards Randall

Hi Andy....Using Bluetooth is a very cheap way to send authentic sounds to a speaker onboard a 7mm locomotive. As everyone will have undoubtedly noticed from my posts in this thread, I use the Soundbyte iPad app to do the deed. However, before I discovered the iPad version of Soundbyte, I was doing the same thing from my laptop. The Soundbyte program was originally written for MS Windows (free to download), and I did test it successfully at the time. I use two methods for my 7mm diesels..... For shunting and general milling about, I use short looped samples assigned to different buttons which are pressed to synchronise with separately controlled loco speed...very easy. You can use a program like Audacity to chop soundtracks into samples. However, I have also downloaded 'free for non-profit use' sounds from sites on the Web that were professionally recorded either from onboard the locomotive, or from the nearest coach. The recordings are many minutes long, and the authenticity when played back through an onboard Bluetooth speaker is striking. The quality is excellent because it's of much higher fidelity than can be achieved with DCC Soundchips and it's obviously eminently suited to DC or battery-powered layouts. I've used them on the Test Track at the club and they sound superb....but I would absolutely love to run my Class 52 Western on a garden layout with these sounds.....Drool..... One thing to remember with Bluetooth is battery charging. My Bluetooth units are onboard, and I've had to modify them to fit into the fuel tanks of my diesels, making sure that the charging socket is easily accessible. However, for a garden layout, a speaker could be located in the first wagon or coach with little loss of authenticity, leaving them much more accessible for easy charging. My Bluetooth speaker batteries generally last about 45 minutes depending on the volume. There are many generic sounds such as "shovelling coal" or "wheel squeal"...but the sound that most readily identifies a steam locomotive is the whistle. Get that right and you're over half way there. Please let us know how you get on.... Randall

In order that I can give a more factual appraisal/evaluation of this ALTERNATIVE method of sound production, I think it is essential to start by laying the cards on the table and talking about it in direct comparison with the current market leader - the DCC Soundchip. There are also several other alternatives available in the marketplace, but none that I am aware of can have the sounds of different locomotive types individually selected (customised or off the shelf) as with DCC Sound, or customised by the user in the way that will be demonstrated in this thread in forthcoming updates. I realise it may be construed that some of my comparisons may be borne of bias, but I will try to be objective and not (too) hostile. I don't have the power of veto in this thread, so unlike some on RMweb, I am unable to delete any responses I don't like. I will also try not to deliberately mislead. I still own two soundchipped locomotives, so I am able to speak from experience. Almost everyone will have heard DCC sound or alternatives at some time or other and will have formed their own individual opinion on the respective merits and faults. Others will have decided that sound would add nothing to their enjoyment of their model railway. Each to his own. The first comparison is that of cost. Aside from the cost of a tablet or smartphone, which are multipurpose devices so there can't be a direct comparison with DCC hardware on cost grounds, this thread advocates low-cost quality sound. DCC sound requires a relatively expensive investment in DCC hardware at the outset (I have a Lenz 100 of my own and I love DCC for controlling trains, so I am in no way biased against DCC). Anyone with a DCC or DC layout can use the methods espoused by this thread for next to nothing, but, as we all know, a soundchip costs around £100 per locomotive ( I will exclude TTS from this discussion). Soundchips: 0 Low-cost alternative: 1 The factor that this low-cost alternative receives most derision for is: quote: "...but none of them (the alternatives) have addressed that vital link between throttle movement and sounds played". Soundchips: 1 Low-cost alternative: 1 In almost every one of my posts in this thread, I have stated outright that there is no link between throttle movement and sounds played. To those who have never driven a soundchip-equipped locomotive (and those who have will know what I mean).... this is actually a most self-deriding and ridiculous accusation because (shock and awe) in any random circumstance, every soundchipped locomotive can also have a mind of it's own where the "vital link" is lost and the sound playback simply runs away uncontrollably. That and various other problems....such as poor synchronisation with engine speed and the speed of the locomotive along the track. Soundchips: 1 Low-cost alternative: 2 If I were to hit back against DCC sound with an accusation of my own it would be that of Constant Volume. A locomotive twenty feet away sounds as loud as a locomotive directly in front of the operator. Some soundchips have a Fade function but it only controls volume which is not the same in terms of authenticity. Soundchips: 1 Low-cost alternative: 3 Only joking.... I will be continuing with some comparisons, but only with the intention of highlighting how this alternative can excel over loco-centric sound in many ways. I am not so naive as to suggest that it's perfect and without doubt it requires some work to get it off the ground. If you already have a smart device, or if Santa brings you one, find a suitable Youtube video (enjoyable fun in itself) and run a train and see/hear for yourself. Most smart devices have high quality audio systems, so just hold the device in front of you at waist level as the train passes by. The synchronisation may not be perfect, but we'll see how that can be worked upon. Randall

The are several references to Bluerail being used to compliment DCC...maybe the topic should be left to develop to see what happens? Randall

To return to the topic after a period of reflection, I would like to thank Giles for putting forward his theatre analogy. I have no expertise in sound production, so I'm thankful to him and other early contributors to this thread who have helped paint the picture in words that I and others can relate-to. My motive is to help other modellers understand that alternatives DO exist and to outline the possibilities in the hope that they may be inspired to take things forward for themselves. Whilst my 7mm (Soundbyte samples to Bluetooth) outlook will remain unchanged, on my 4mm layout, things will be a little different. Rather than persue the goal of trying to mimic the loco-centric sample-based sounds produced by a DCC Soundchip, I am on a journey of discovery where the subject matter is a soundscape embracing the passage of trains through the stage (the layout), as per the HST video footage. This is becoming much more of an interest for me. I find that having the speaker adjacent to the viewing position most convincing. I find the buildup, crescendo and fade really convincing and it's easy to associate the sound with the movement....'the combined optical and aural illusion'. I intend to explain how a mobile speaker position, coupled with variable soundtrack trigger timings can be combined to ensure optimum effect. Finally for this update: Soundbyte (others are available) is obviously designed for playing songs.... I have now started using it for playing my favourite music tracks whilst having a relaxing modelling session (or catching up on RMweb). When I feel like running a train, the railway soundtrack associated with the move is started and the song fades out.....When the train arrives at it's destination and the move is complete, I just fade up the song again. It's like someone shouts "CUT" and I'm back in the room! A very enjoyable way of playing trains.... Randall

Hi... It's remiss of me to have taken so long to post views of my BR Corporate Blue layout(s) in this dedicated thread. My modelling progress is pedestrian due to work commitments, but I retire in six weeks. The original Costleigh was 4mm around the loft, but I dug out the fiddleyard and replaced it with 7mm layout of the same name. Development on the 7mm layout stalled while my wife recovered from illness. I'm currently refurbishing part of the 4mm side of the loft as a 'watching the trains go by' theme. Randall Here's a couple of views and a video: 7mm layout 4mm layout

Hi Giles....Apologies to everyone (well not everyone) if my remarks come across like that.... As in every walk of life, bitterness always stems from tit-for-tat arguments. There has been a steady build up of criticism and lack of respect shown towards members who are working on cheaper and higher quality alternatives to DCC sound. We try to SHARE things on this forum and it's wrong to be knocked back by those who think they occupy the higher ground. All my O gauge locomotives will be fitted with Bluetooth speakers that can play back sound of a far higher quality than DCC Soundchips are currently capable of. What is wrong with experimenting with a technology that costs £hundreds++ less than Soundchips. See....it raises my blood pressure every time!!! Randall

Hi again... Here's a short clip demonstrating what's possible using sounds downloaded from Youtube which are then played back through an app like Soundbyte running on an iPad or Android tablet. I would have preferred to have filmed the entire sequence with the HST starting off from a standstill, but I am limited to one pair of hands. That would have shown unequivocally that controlling the trains and the sounds separately is perfectly straightforward. I would also have preferred not to cut the video short and show the full sequence of the HST departing the scene through the tunnel, but SWMBO called out to ask if I wanted a cup of tea...I had to edit that bit out.... Randall

Hi CC...I would love to, but the site is commercial and if that's what people want to buy, then who am I to quibble? Anyhow, I don't want to be the perpetrator of even more friction.... Randall

Hi... Thanks for the update. There are many libraries there that could unearth something if you are prepared to "rummage".... However, most sounds from that source are still 'first generation'....things have moved on since. Randall

Hi Giles....Why am I so ready to knock it? Simply because certain exponents of DCC sound who are in a position of responsibility on RMweb have long been all too ready to ridicule and dismiss (low-cost, often superior) alternatives to DCC soundchips made by myself and others. The last time I questioned a misleading statement, my post was immediately deleted. I respectfully suggest you research the topic of sound on RMweb if you doubt what I am saying. With regard to my recent update, I can understand station announcements and platform noise, but CHURCH BELLS and BIRDSONG?...from a speaker onboard a locomotive?!? regards Randall

Hi again... Wow! I've just watched a video of professionally produced DCC Soundchips with 'latest developments'....station announcements, platform noise and BIRDSONG sounds etc that prototypically emanate from the locomotive speaker. This real added-value development is seriously making me reconsider my quest for cheaper sound. Randall

It's remarkable...it's as if 7mm is becoming the 'new black'... An announcement such as this would have been heralded in mainstream 4mm not so long ago.... Is there so much money sloshing around?.... OR.... Are the REAL production costs so low that the profits for 7mm make it foolish not to capitalise? Randall

Hi Andy... I politely disagree... It is far easier to synchronise sounds and motion when train movement is slower, as when shunting. Randall

Hi again...To follow on from this previous post of mine...here is another suggestion with regard to obtaining suitable sounds from Youtube.... The phenomenal advances in the quality of Train Simulator graphics has prompted consequential improvements in sound quality. Increasing numbers of TrainSim enthusiasts have been posting videos of their scenarios on Youtube. The sound quality of most of these HD videos is good enough for our purposes. A quick Google search will unearth absolute gems. Watch out for those whose creator doesn't give a running commentary.... External overhead 'close-proximity shots' of the simulated locos will provide the best sounds... If you are a TrainSim bod, you will be able to create your own recordings..... I am using this method to create my own library of sounds for my O gauge fleet. I use 'SoundByte-to-onboard-Bluetooth-speaker'...much superior sound quality to those of DCC chips... My objective was to find a cheaper way of equipping my 7mm fleet with sound..I am well on my way. Youtube Downloader can be used to extract the soundfiles for uploading into Audacity. I want to emphasise (again) that controlling the trains and the sounds separately is easy. Watch my DMU video again....you'll hear me pressing the controller buttons as the Class 105 soundtrack accelerates. Enough said? regards Randall

Hi PeterP...The program I use to edit sounds for uploading into Soundbyte is the world-reknowned Audacity, which is free (MS Windows). For our purposes, it is fairly straightforward...you load the soundfile, which is displayed as a graphical soundwave. You can set start and endpoints for playback, make adjustments to get it just right. You then save the result as a file, which is then loaded into Soundbyte using iTunes as described in an earlier posting. The DMU samples in the video were all extracted from a single file that was downloaded free for personal use. If enough interest were to be expressed on this thread, I'd consider delevoping a series of instructional videos for Youtube. regards Randall

Hi... This 7mm model of a Southern Railway Weedkilling Train came up for sale at the Swansea Railway Modellers Group meeting this evening.... We were keen that a model of this standard went to someone within the club who would appreciate the craftsmanship...and so it did... Not much is known of the provenance of the model which was bought at an exhibition by one of our members several years ago. The detail is phenomenal. The workmen's carriages appear to be modified Slater's We would very much appreciate any information on the prototype, or indeed the builder... Randall