GoingUnderground

Almost. Stabling lights were not part of the original equipment as delivered on both '59 and '62 Stock so is useless as an indicator before the very early 1970s when they were fitted to all rolling stock both Tube and Sub-Surface. '62 Stock had "....a motor alternator rectifier set for the auxiliary supply with static regulation, instead of the motor generator alternator with moving carbon regulation" (source tube Trains Under London". Did A Stock have a whine? I know that R Stock on the District did and there was a medium-pitch sort of whistling sound on A Stock.. A Stock trailer cars had a "rattly vibration" from the air compressors which tended to drown out everything else when they were running, usually when at rest in stations, and it was a pleasure when the stopped.

It's wrong to think of the NDMs being reused. They were always intended to run with the '62 Stock on the Central line. As J Graeme Bruce puts in in "Tube Trains Under London" "These 57 non-driving motor cars were, in fact, the first of the 1962 Tube Stock.....". They were ordered specifically for the Central line and arrived before the rest of the '62 stock with which they were always intended, from new, to run with. They were numbered in sequence for the '62 Stock, as evidenced by the last '59 Stock 8 car train to be delivered 1213-2312-9313-1313+1314-2314-9735-1315, where 9735 was the NDM specifically for the Central Line. The '62 Stock was numbered from 1400 upwards for DMs - even numbers for the A car and odd numbers for the D car; 2400 upwards for the trailers even numbers only as they were permanently coupled to the adjoining A DM. The NDM's were numbered from 9401 upwards, odd numbers only, as they were permanently coupled to the adjoining D DM. thus a set would be 1400-2400-9401-1401, the running numbers indicating the type and position of the car in the 4 car set. This was the same numbering system as used for the' 59 Stock on the Piccadilly line where the sequence started at 1000 for A DMs, 2000 for trailers, 9001 for NDMs and 1001 for D DMs. I have vague memories of seeing '59 Stock with a blue/green moquette, and of being surprised when I started using the Central line in 1971 at seeing the same grey/red/black moquette there as used on the A60 & A62 Stock with which I was only too familiar on a daily basis from 1962 onwards. I can't find independent confirmation of this as the only pictures that I can find of 'the interior of '59 Stock early in its life are black & white, but the design shape does not match contemporaneous black & white photos of the A60/62 stock moquette. So that might have been another way to tell '59 from '62 Stock, but what moquette was used in the extra NDMs is anybody's guess.

Here's a name "Tri-ang", which, strangely enough, used to apply to a certain range of very successful, very rugged (they've survived me for the lat 60+ years), and very competitively priced model railway products which just happened to be made in a certain well-known factory in Margate. The other reason that they don't try to repair stuff is the lack of spares.

Indeed, covering all ECoS models, except that for this upgrade there is an exception for the original ECoS 1 50000 and the the CS1 Reloaded as they are excluded from the WiThrottle functionality. But they do get the rest of the improvements and bug fixes in 4.2.14.

To the best of my knowledge, the LokProgrammer hardware will work with any decoder as it is just an interface between computer and decoder. However, to use the LokProgrammer hardware effectively you really need the LokProgrammer software, and the software is designed to integrate with, and exploit the capabilities of, ESU's LokSound and LokPilot loco decoders and its SignalPilot static decoder. The hardware/software combo also lets you upgrade the firmware on SwitchPilot 2 & 3 series static decoders as and when ESU release such updates, and, if you still have one, update the firmware on the old ECoSControl Radio which, incidentally, is primarily why I bought my LokProgrammer years ago. You can use the Lokprogrammer hardware and software to read and write new values to individual CVs on any make of decoder one CV at a time because the software only "knows" about ESU decoders. Thus, using a generic programming tool like DecoderPro will be much easier and quicker when working with non-ESU decoders.

Easy, the difference being about 51' 2", or you realised which line you were using. '59 Stock was formed into 4+3 car trains, (DM-T-NDM-DM+DM-T-DM), and was ordered for, and ran on the Piccadilly line. It was displaced by the '73 Stock, moving to the Northern, and then on to the Bakerloo when the Northern got its new trains of '96 stock in the mid 1990s. These 3 lines could only take 7 car trains. The Northern did, however, experiment with 9 car trains of Standard Stock back in the late 1930s, and the '38 Stock order back then included cars specifically to form a number of 9 car trains for the Northern. '62 Stock was formed into 4+4, (DM-T-NDM-DM+DM-T-NDM-DM), car trains and ran on the Central line only, the Central platforms having been extended to take 8 car trains back in the 1930s at the same time as the running tunnels were enlarged to take the Standard Stock as used on the Northern, Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines. That allowed the Standard Stock being replaced by the '38 Stock on the other 3 lines to move to the Central to replace its original gate stock, where it was mainly formed into 8 car trains to exploit the newly extended platforms. The only exception to the 4+3 formation for '59 Stock was when new '59 Stock was diverted to the Central on delivery. There it was formed into 4+4 trains, the additional car in each train being an NDM. LT amended the order for the '59 Stock to include additional NDMs for the sets being diverted to the Central, pending the order for the '62 Stock, so they could be formed into 4+4 trains. When these diverted sets were eventually returned to the Piccadilly, the extra NDMs stayed on the Central where they were incorporated into the '62 Stock sets. That also tells you how interchangeable the cars were in the two Series. When the time came for the '62 Stock to be replaced with the '95 stock on the Central, the '62 Stock was scrapped as by that stage it was not needed elsewhere as the Northern was about to get its new '96 Stock and the Bakerloo would then receive the much younger '72 Stock displaced from the Northern.

Thanks for the correction. I knew there was a difference, having come across a reference to it many years ago, but I couldn't remember the details nor where I had seen it.

Glad that things are working for you. I don't know if you have the spec or the D&H user manual for their sound decoders, but according to the manual the SD21-A4 is rated at 2A and has a maximum permissible voltage of 30V. So you should be able to increase the voltage without worrying about the decoder. But I would check whether the NCE kit can safely handle the increased voltage before doing so. If I've understood your comments correctly, you're a relative newcomer ro DCC. So plesse may I suggest that you're careful when using trail and error to change CVs. Whilst you can always reset a decoder to its default settings there is a risk that a reset will take the decoder back to its manufacturer's ex-works CV values, not the values written to the decoder by the sound file originator. Some decoders do allow a sound file provider to overwrite the manufacturer's default settings with their defaults for the sound project so that the decoder will still work as intended with their sound project. I'm not familiar with D&H decoders so I don't know if that is possible with them, and if it is whether your sound project provider did that. Hence, if it were me, I'd check with the company who supplied the decoder what a reset would do before I started making too many trial and error changes to CVs.

Sadly, for me anyway, it stands out too much, unlike the "ghostly, shadowy" look of the original. If they were going to go that far, then they should also have weathered the cab doors which, as the stock got older looked less and less like the aluminium car bodies as you can see in the pictures above. I can't remember now what material was used for the cab doors, but it wasn't aluminium. The same went for the cab doors on the A60/62 Stock. That's why they always looked slightly different to the bodyshells even when new and as they weathered the difference in appearance only increased.

D&H (Doehler & Haass) are very well known in mainland Europe, being the original developers of the Selectrix digital system. Continental european manufacturers tend to recommend higher voltages than N. American companies. Out of curiosity I looked at the D&H User manual for loco decoders. Their smaller decoders seem to have a maximum current of about 0.5 amps or therabouts, and a maximum voltage of 18V. These are probaly the ones intended for N and TT, where I'm given to understand D&H are very popular due to the historically smaller size of their decoders compared to the opposition. Most of their other decoders seem to have a max current of 1 amp and a max voltage of 30V. So perhaps you have the wrong decoder in your loco if the mech in the loco that stalls is a bit stiff and hence it momentarily draws more than the max current and the decoder cuts out to protect itself, or the voltage out from the PowerCab is too low. For what it's worth, ESU recommend the following voltages in their most recent version of the ECoS manual: N: 15-16V H0 2 rail (and by implication OO: 16-18V H0 3 rail (i.e. Maerklin kit): 18-20V Gauge 1: 18-20V Gauge 2: 18-21V. Which model of D&H decoder are you using?

Mine arrived today. Nice model, as usual, but unfortunately when held at certain angles on the DM cars the words "London transporT" can be seen underneath the roundel despite having been painted over. Not what I expect from Bachmann, nor the original Gilbow company either. Is it just my set that has this problem, or is it present on the entire run? A mistake in manufacture and an attempt to correct it by overspraying, or a hangover from the LT Museum run of "Piccadilly Heathrow" '59 stock?

I think you said that your layout is 0 gauge. 13 volts would seem to me to be unreasonably low for 0 gauge, and whilst I'll readily admit that I'm no expert on 0 gauge, I wonder whether the low voltage is part of the problem. Also, I was wondering whether the fact that the problem is at baseboard joints might suggest that the track not being totally flat across the join is causing the loco to pivot on the middle wheelset making the leading or trailing wheelset briefly lose contact with the track. This shouldn't cause a problem, but might be worth checking.

Which model of the ECoS does your pal have as there are 3 going on 4? Monochrome 50000 or ECoS 1, which was replaced by the ... Colour 50200 or ECoS 2, which was replaced by the..... Colour 50210 or ECoS 2.1, which was replaced by the... Colour 50220 or ECoS 2.5, the latest incarnation of the ECoS, but it is currently in short supply. What version of the ECoS firmware is installed in the ECoS? Has your pal ever updated the firmware? There are 3 generations of firmware: 1.x.x which was only used on the ECoS 1 3.x.x which has one version for the ECoS 1 and another for the ECoS 2 4.x.x which has one version for the ECoS 1 and another for the ECoS 2 models. I've not heard of the ECoS firmware becoming corrupted in this way. But if that is the cause, then it is very easy to fix. Boot the ECoS into Rescue Mode and then reinstall the firmware. If your pal doesn't have a copy of his version of the firmware, then he can download a copy relating to the relevant generation from the ESU website provided he has become a member of the ESU users forum and registered his ECoS with ESU on the forum..This is all covered in the ECoS user manual. It would be worth making a backup of the ECoS configuration before he tries to reinstall the firmware. It is possible that the ECoS has developed an electrical fault, not firmware corruption, which could be due to old age if your friend uses LS3.5s which date back to the time of the ECoS 1.

There are 4 models in the Rapido E Class series, 2 of which, L.44 and L.48, use the Johnson typeface, which is protected, for the running number and the "London transporT" lettering. And I can't see any manufacturer in their right mind having separate box lids just for those models. The reproduction of all graphics and logos depends entirely on whether they are currently subject to copyright or trade mark protection and, more importantly, whether the holders of those rights enforce them. Does anyone hold the rights to the logos etc of the pre-nationalisation railway companies and if they do, do they bother to enforce them? Or have all rights lapsed and they've passed into the public domain? Unlike copyright, trade marks do not expire after a set period of time, provided they are renewed every 10 years. It would seem sensible, at least to me, for anyone seeking to reproduce graphics etc commercially to make enquiries first to avoid a lot of grief later. TfL does, as I understand it, enforce its rights. IIRC, the Metropolitan coat of arms was used on A60 stock DMs in, I think it was, the late 1990s just prior to their refurbishment and repainting in the corporate RWB livery. Whether the coat of arms is the subject of copyright or trade mark protection I don't know, but as it has been used as recently as the 1990s by LU/TfL then it may well be protected. On the subject of the packaging, when Modelmaster Jackson Evans used to produce transfers for LT/LU stock their PoS materials always said that they had permission. Gilbow/EFE did not make any mention of whether they had permission to use the roundel etc on the packaging of their static models of the '38 and '59 Tube stock or on their models of LT buses. Neither did Hornby on the packaging of their 0-6-0 Sentinel DL.81 nor on their relatively recent "Corgi" release of a Feltham Tram in LT livery. However the Bachmann/EFE Rail motorised models of the '38 & '59 Stock do have the "permission" wording.

Yes,I believe that is the situation. TfL as the latest successors to LPTB and before that UERL and the Metropolitan Railway will own the copyright and trade marks to all graphics, logos, and lettering used by the original companies from 1863 through to the present day.

ESU LLC in the USA have recently announced via youTube that the next firmware update for the CabControl will allow the use of user created loco icons, a feature that's been available to ECoS owners for many years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzhVn5GF4Z0

Back when the LS3.5 was ESU's pride and joy, they recommended 16-18V for use with H0/OO, and the PSU that they supplied with my first ECoS had a fixed output of around 17V. So I wouldn't have expected you to have overheating problems with an LS3.5 from what you've described unless the LS was faulty. However as the overheating seems to affect many of your decoders that suggests that the fault lies outside of the decoders. However, has it occcurred to you that the PSU might be faulty? I don't have a Multimaus but if you cannot adjust the output voltage using the Multimaus because it lacks the functionaility to adjust the voltage, then all it is doing is passing through the input voltage from your power brick, bar a slight voltage drop due to the power being taken by the Multimaus itself. Therefore it makes me wonder if your problem is a faulty PSU that for some reason is putting out too high a voltage. PSU's do fail from time to time, but I don't know whether that can include going over-voltage. I'd look at replacing the PSU.

And the name Triang wasn't dropped, it was sold on by the Receiver of Lines Bros to a company other than DCM, DCM having bought Rovex, which owned the Hornby name, from the Receiver. So it could no longer be used by Rovex/DCM as they didn't own it. I would take issue with the statement that the body was "..not Triang in any sense...". Rovex was very much alive and well and successful in the 1970s designing and producing models in the Margate factory which were being sold under the Hornby Railways brand. It was a Margate product and the models produced in the 1970s were Rovex products, just read the packaging from that era. The only connection that any of the models of the Hornby Railways era had with Hornby and Hornby Dublo was the Hornby name. As a proud owner of Triang Railways models from 1959 it really hurt to see Rovex products called Hornby, it felt like a betrayal. I still get annoyed even today with the way that the company seems to be slightly ashamed of its Rovex origins. So, to be truly accurate, the coach body was never a Triang Railways nor a Triang Hornby branded item as it was only produced after the name change to Hornby Railways.

Comment by German speaking users of ESU's own forum suggests that the new ECoS has been released as components used in the current version are no longer readily obtainable, forcing a redesign of the board to suit alternative components. Early reports say that the input and output connections are the same. So you may be disappointed if you were hoping that the new version would have a USB socket for updating the firmware, same as the CabControl. Despite calling it the 2.5, the ESU part number is currently being shown as 50220, plenty of scope for confusion in the future here. At least when ESU updated the ECoS 2 to the 2.1 they gave it a consistent part number 50210.

Thank you for the correction. I'm not at home at the moment so I was working off my memory of events over 10 years ago so I couldn't refer to the original models and their packaging to check my facts. But it remains that there have been models commissioned by the LTM over the past 20 years many of which have not been publicised. They commissioned a rerun of the OOC Feltham Tram to celebrate (if that's the right word) the last Feltham to run in London No. 2079 in 1951. That's probably another relatively unknown/unpublicised LT model as it's only available through the LT Museum.

I found out about it in the LTM Friends quarterly magazine that arrived this week. I was in London this weekend and took the opportunity to go up to town to buy mine in the shop in Covent Garden. Does anyone know the Bachmann/EFE part number as so far I can't find it on the packaging? Previously they used the 999xx series when sold in 4 car or 2 car IoW sets. Or is it the bar code number 471169? As it was commissioned by the LT Museum Bachmann may well be leaving the marketing to the Museum. It's many years ago now, but I think I'm right in saying that they've done that before in Gilbow days with 3 previous LT Museum specials: <> a '38 Stock 4 car Whitechapel set (identifiable by an A suffix on the boxes and a "step" warning sign on the windows) Ref 99931, <> a '38 Stock 4 car Amersham set with the running numbers of the actual 4 car heritage set, identifiable by the mislabelling of the A numbered DM as the "D" end and vice versa, Ref (9)9931/A and <> a '59 Stock 4 car set in unpainted aluminium finish Edgware. (not to be confused with the corporate liveried RWB set with the same destination) Ref 99937. The A stock was well publicised being the first serious 4mm scale RTR LT/LU model when it was released, (the Ever Ready 1950s Standard Stock has too many errors even for it's day to be considered a serious model IMHO). I think that the the 3 renumbered A Stock subsequent releases for the LT Museum are much less well known. The first 2 were renumbered versions of the full 8 cars (to move excess stock) whilst the most recent being a rerun 4 car set at £595 (ouch) without the option of adding the additional cars to create a 7 or 8 car set. I don't know if Bachmann publicised them at the time of have left that task to the Museum. There has also been 57xx pannier model commissioned by the Museum of L94, Ref 31-903, not to be confused with the other L94 commissioned by Kernow I think it was, 32-217Z. The Museum commissioned model is virtually unknown which probably explains why it was duplicated by another commissioned model.

I don't normally spread unsubstantiated rumours, but there has been a passing mention on the ESU website forum of an ECoS "50220". This isn't too surprising as the availability of components must be pusing ESU towards internal changes to the ECoS even if they feel that the design concept of a twin "Duette" style full colour console is still valid. The model shop listing it calls it the "ECoS 2.5" and the illustration shows what looks like an externally unchanged ECoS, but that could, of course, just be because the shop doesn't have an ilustration of the potential new model itself and is using a stock photo of the current ECoS 2.1. If there is an updated ECoS on the way I wouldn't let it discourage me from buying an existing ECoS 2.1 as when ESU launched the colour ECoS 2 over 13 years ago they gave a commitment to existing owners of the original monochrome ECoS 50000 to keep developing the firmware for the monochrome ECoS. So far they have kept their word, and judging by this past precedent one's investment in an ECoS 2.1 looks to be secure. However, there will obviously come a point when it is not commercially viable to keep supporting the older monochrome model 50000 simply because of a declining user base.

I wasn't initially interested in the 4mm Cravens 1960 Tube stock, and missed it whilst Phil was still around. I did ask him sometime last year if he was going to rerun it at all. So I'd be interested in a set if that were to reappear. I also have one of Phil's 7mm MetroVic bodies, nothing else, just the body. I was intending to try to scratch build the bogies, footplate, etc and source buffers, couplings and wheelsets myself with the aim of producing a static model, another unstarted project. But if anyone is going to restart making the MetroVic Bo-Bo in 7mm I'd be interested in getting the kit, but without the body, to complete it as a fully running model.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, I had a look but couldn't find a reference to it. Whilst at the Warley show last month I came across a 3D printed "tender" for the 0-6-0 Sentinels on the London Transport Traction Group stand. The tender is made by CDC design, well known for the Street Level Models card kits. So if you want to run one of Hornby's 0-6-0 LT Sentinels or one of the old Knightwing kit ones but don't fancy making one from scrratch you now have a solution.. It is called a"kit" but it comples complete with the buffer beam painted and the wheelsets in situ. The handrails are printed in white and all you have to do is insert them into the holes provided on the model. It is modelled with the folding buffers in a fixed position, so comes in 3 "flavours", buffers down, buffers folded, and one up one down. For the record, I have no connection with LTTG or CDC Design.

Thank you for the update Arun.