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Depedning on the build date, the local archives may have the architects drawings from when the pub was built. Leeds City Archives have planning documents for almost everything built in Lededs from about 1880 until 1950 or so. I found it very useful when researching some of my builds. Other archives may not be complete, Birmingham City Archives in the central library are fairly appaling as an old City Architect decided no one would be interested in old plans and threw aload of them away. Old architects drawings are often done to 8ft to the inch or 1:96 scale and whilst this may seem small given how big most city buildings are I have often found that all I need to do is to stretch ground floors to increase door heights and I still get a fairly large building without it overpowering the layout. Might be worth speaking to Salford's archivist

I must say that I am beginning to think £50 billion (plus all the inevitable cost overruns by the time it is finally built/abandoned) too high a price to pay. For that kind of money you could probably electrify the whole network, provide extra capacity and reopen a lot of closed/mothballed lines Dean

Thanks Peter, a really interesting site, I can see that I am going to have order more black ink for the printer. Dean

Thanks Kevin I keep an eye on ebay, but so far haven't seen any working timetables for the Birmingham area. Dean

Thanks guys the light begins to dawn. What didn't help in trying to interpret the timetable is that except for the usual letter key at the bottom of each page/timetable, there is no "users guide" printed in either this or the 1947 timetable. As an aside, further interesting points shown on the timetables (not either of the above though) is slip workings, that certain trains were made up of only one class and some are specifically referred to as being a streamlined railcar. thanks again Dean

Hi, I was wondering if the group could put its collective heads together and help me out with interpreting old timetables. When I finally start running trains on my very longwinded model (please don't hold your breath), I'd like to run them to some kind of timetable rather than just play trains. To this end I invested in a copy of the 1947 GWR timetable and started pulling the information out for Birmingham Snow Hill - not an easy task given that it is spread throughout the book. I'm at four pages and counting so far. It's very unlikely that I will run trains to the result but it's a source of inspiration Recently I purchased a copy of the 1939 winter timetable for the Birmingham and Worcester Districts on a certain auction website. I thought this might be a bit easier to digest. However, whilst I know some people have problems understanding train timetables until now I've never been one of them, but then my experience of trains starts at a period when trains were no longer split or amalgamated on route. So reading the timetable was relatively easy; you started at the station at the top and passed through each station listed below, the time passing as you did so. So you will understand my confusion when time appears to run backwards when considering certain routes in the old timetable. Example 1 If you consider the 1:30 am departure from Paddington (first column), This arrives at Leamington at 3:26. then takes three hours to get to the next station on the line (Warwick) before proceeding to Stratford at 7:47, and then arriving in Birmingham at 4 am (almost four hours earlier!) Now I think the explanation for this is that one train leaves Paddington at 1:30, at Leamington it splits, with part of it presumably sitting around at Leamington for several hours before proceeding to Warwick and then leaving the mainline to go to Stratford. The rest of the train proceeds direct from Leamington to Birmingham arriving at 4am. Best to make sure you're sitting in the right part of the train. Now in this second example lets consider the 7:02 from Worcester Shrub Hill to Shrewsbury. A simple scan down the third column on the top of the timetable shows the clock wander back and forth as you go down the column. Again I think this is the sequence of events: Train A leaves Worcester at 7:02 travelling towards Wolvrhampton on the mainline before leaving it at Hartlebury to travel via Stourport on Severn and arriving at Bewdley (I still can't explain Cutnall Green at 6:53?) Train B leaves Wolverhampton LL at 5:35, arrives at Birmingham and then reverses out of Birmingham travelling to Kidderminster before arriving at Bewdley at 7:48. Train A and Train B are then joined together and travel on towards Buildwas. Next mystery the Much Wenlock (MW) train appears to arrive (9.08) 40 minutes after is have departed (8.34)? Now MW is not on the direct route to Shrewsbury so again I am assuming that either this is two connecting services (but this offends my sense of logic as I would expect this to have its own timetable entry or at least a note to tell passengers to change trains) or a coach is taken off the train at Buildwas and proceeds forward to MW arriving at the same time as a coach from train C which left MW at 8:34 is attached. Now while this seems logical to me it does seem unnecessarily complicated. Leaving Buildwas the train proceeds to its final destination. Now that is my interpretation of these timetable entries but it is only an educated (?) guess. Someone on here must know more about interpreting these old timetables and can I am sure enlighten me to the correct interpretation. Over to you guys Dean

Normanton - colliery town (former) in the west riding

Ely - the cathedral of the fens

YORK, home of the NRM

I shall be giving it trial and reporting back regards Dean

I assume its accurate as its taken from official sources. But the dates given are the dates for completing a batch, so some may well have emerged prior to the dates given

According to Micheal Harris's book "Great Western Coaches" the build dates were as follows A23 - all first - 19/11/1949, 28/1/1950 and 1/7/1950 C82 - all third - 12/6/1948, 27/11/1948 30/4/1949 C82 - All third - 16/4/1949, 22/4/1950 D131 - brake third - 27/12/1947 D133 - brake third - 2/7/1949, 4/11/1950, 20/1/1951 E163 - comp - 23/10/1948 E164 - brake comp - 25/12/1948,30/7/1948, 30/12/50 E165 - comp - 5/11/1949, 9/9/1950 K45 - pass. brake van 3/12/1949, 25/11/1950 K46 - pas. brake van 7/7/1951 The dates given are the lot completion dates. So you can see that batches of the same diagram were ordered at different times, but the vast majority after nationalisation. Dean

I don't know that I agree, the coaches may not have been flushglazed but the coach sides were not 6 inches think. The benefit of SEF glazing, especiallym if used with a darkened edge to the plastic, is that it helps to mask the very thick coach sides. Dean

When I modified the ends of my colletts, I made such a mess of my fingers trying to cut off the gangways, that in the end I abandoned the original ends altogether. The results once painted, and with a new gangway were a marked improvement. steps and gangway yet to be added on this one and completed - not the best pf photos (sorry) Good luck with yours. PS replacing the roof vents and the handrails really makes a difference

Alright I know nothing about costings but I had presumed that a line to Sheffield and then branching to Manchester and Leeds would have been more cost effective (using the old Woodhead line for a start) then building two lines up each side of the Pennines. I'm also not convinced by the "bridge link" between the two Leeds stations. I would have thought it made more sense to continue the line along the Woodlesford line and bring it along the Northern side of the station.

Yes when we moved to Redditch a few years ago, it was a nightmare, roundabout after roundabout, one wrong turn and your in Bromsgrove. I bobbed into the show but didn't stop long as I had a busy day ahead of me for a change. Glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks for the update Duncan Dean

Has anyone seen any photos or designs for the planned improvements at Bridgnorth - new station building, refurbishment of the exisitng one and extension of the pub?

Whenever I'm selling some of my old stock on ebay I always keep a weather eye on this column, in the hope that someone is about to pay well over the odds for my unwanted items. Alas I am always disappointed.

I'll try and load some photos showing the joins

I couldn't help myself - I had to upload a few photos of my latest ebay purchase. This is a model of GWr railcars 35 and 36 made from three Hornby railcars. Not my work I have to admit. Very well made and needs only a little bit of fillering and sanding to complete the bodies. I intend to replace the plastic handrails and install flushglazing and other details. I can now sell the Westward kit I bought of this train many years ago. So now my Brackhampton has a suitable train for its express service to Cardiff.

wow - either thats a very large 20p or a very small building - amazing work

It may not be like any house style, but then lost of stations aren't in the house style. Slough is a good example. I bought three of these as kist to make a large junction station building. Regrettably I had to move house before the station was finished and so this is as far as I got. I was going to run the Airfix (now Dapol) canopy along the front and have a footbridge come out of the first tower (thus the missing door) to a similar tower on the adjacent island platform.

Hi Just been catching up on your thread - sorry to hear you've not been so well - but glad that everything seems OK now. keep up the good work. Dean