Rivercider

Many thanks for all the replies, very interesting. I guess I was aware of the existence of diesel hydraulic shunting locos, but had never given them much thought before. I now realise there were several different types. North British 0-4-0dh D2700 - D2707 200hp from 1953 North British 0-4-0dh D2708 - D2780 225hp from 1957 North British 0-4-0dh D2900 - D2910 330hp from 1958 Yorkshire Class 02 0-4-0dh D2850 - D2869 from 1960. The class 14 D9500 - D9555 entered service from 1964, but none of them worked in the West Country as far as I know, despite the WR having taken over former SR lines west of Salisbury which brought many hydraulics onto former SR territory. By early 1960 the Western Region dieselisation of the West Country was proceeding with 34 main line diesels in traffic at Laira by the end of January 1960. These were the 14 pilot scheme locos, and 20 more from the production series, numbers being D600-D604, D800-D815, and D6300-D6312. At that date there was still plenty of traditional railway shunting work required, Penzance Truro St Blazey and Laira sheds would have had quite a few shunting duties between them, but no diesel hydraulic shunters despite there being several classes that could have been used. cheers

You have joined two sentences together there, one where I agreed that I was not considering class 14s as shunting locos in the traditional sense. I then postulated that there would not have been much requirement for the small diesel hydraulic shunters in the early days of dieselisation, as built by North British in 1957. The class 14s did not appear until seven years later, in 1964, by which time they were already obsolete, and in any case were never expected to shunt in yards or locations with tight curves. cheers

The map section that covers Exeter and the Exmouth branch does not show the halts at Mount Pleasant Road, Whipton Bridge, and Lions Holt, which all opened in January 1906, so it must have been drawn earlier than that. Edit - and the same section of map shows that the Budleigh Salterton Railway had been extended to Exmouth, the extension opened in June 1903. So the map appears to date from between June 1903 and January 1906. Any other offers? Second edit! - The map shows Bere Alston to Callington branch, which opened in March 1908. I now wonder if the halts in the Exeter area opened in 1906, (and others in 1907 and 1908) are not shown on the map, which must date after March 1908. cheers

Yes, I did think about the Class 14s, but you are right that I was really thinking about shunting locos in the traditional sense. There would not have been a requirement for very many small shunters in the early stages of the dieselisation, but Laira could perhaps have found work for a few in the docks rather than Class 03s. cheers

When the decision was taken to trial diesel hydraulics on the Western Region as part of the Modernisation Plan were there ever any diesel hydraulic shunting locomotives allocated to the Western Region? North British built 0-4-0dh shunting locos in 1957, later numbered D2708-D2780. They seem to have been mostly in Scotland, which is logical keeping them near where they were constructed. I am not aware that any came to the Western Region, but why not? On the other hand since diesel electric shunting locos had already proved themselves why build a diesel hydraulic shunter? cheers

Todays lunchtime arrival at Teignmouth was FRISIAN RIVER. FRISIAN RIVER alongside at Teignmouth shortly after arrival from Erith. Unloading had already commenced, though I do not know what the load was, (another forum suggested meal from ADM Erith). cheers

We completed a house move to Teignmouth before Christmas, since then I have kept a look out for shipping arrivals. BOTHNIA FIN arrived on 30/12/2023 from Ijmuiden and has spent new year at Teignmouth. BOTHNIA FIN at Teignmouth 31/12/2023 cheers

I was born a bit too late for that. If the SR plan to dieselise the Western District had come to fruition this might have become an everyday sight in the 1960s Okehampton looking west 27/8/2017 cheers

How it should look Okehampton station 21/7/2019 cheers

Indeed. I have ventured under the Severn several times for what is always an enjoyable friendly show. I will await a future announcement. cheers

The GWR and SR did adopt a 'non aggression' pact regarding services to North Devon, which subsequently hindered both of them. On the SR route from Exeter to Barnstaple the double line only extended north as far as Copplestone, and then from Umberleigh to Barnstaple Junction, and at most stations on the single line section the loops were not long enough to cross two lengthy services when the summer timetable was in operation. I do not think there was a regular exchange working of GWR and SR locos over the opposing company route (as occurred between Exeter and Plymouth for decades). I have seen a photo of a T9 and SR stock at Taunton, which I believe was a regular working, possibly for a season or two in the 1950s? cheers

One way to update a wagon that had arrived in your area without it being reported on TOPS was to ask TOC (TOPS Operations Control?) to do the update, but they would ask questions why the reports were missed. The other way to do it once TOPS offices were no longer permitted to create their own train schedule was to find an unused schedule for on-track plant that had arrived from the area where the misreported wagon had come from. We would 'depart' the train on behalf of the sending TRA, then after arrival use the DB work performed procedure to report the wagon arriving in our area. We did use the AE claim wagon procedure. In the early days this was apparently used a lot especially when only part of the network had been cut-over to TOPS. Later on I think the AE procedure was withdrawn? cheers

Jack Jones! He told us he had hollow legs in a challenge for us to get him drunk. I did my 2 week TOPS basic course at Webb House in the 2 weeks leading up to xmas 1978. Then returned for the TOPS advanced course in the week leading up to Xmas 1981. Edit - and I remember the simplification amendment to the BM arrival input. cheers

Yes, that was my understanding. A 'train' was required to update records when a wagon moved from one TOPS Responsibility Area (TRA) to another. Each train on TOPS required three inputs, the wagon consist (AS input), power consist (A7 input), departure time (BN? input). All three computer entries are required in order to generate a consist at the 'receiving' yard. On arrival at the next yard the TOPS office responsible also makes three inputs, arrival time (BM), work performed input - which confirms all wagons have arrived, and power work performed (TF) which confirms the loco(s) have arrived OK, cheers

Here is a 'dropped catch' taking place at Blue Anchor. The dropped token fell between the train and platform, and took some time to be recovered. Then a signal failure further along the line meant delay at Crowcombe Heathfield until well after dark. 29/10/2017 cheers

My impression was that loco coal for the large MPD at Exmouth Junction was indeed sent in train loads. I seem to recall that in one of my books there was an extract from the Working Timetable showing freight trains, and that the loco coal service from Fremington Quay ran as required, quite possibly with a call a Barnstaple Junction to detach coal for the shed there, before continuing to Exmouth Junction. Having just moved house my book collection is not yet fully accessible to check, so I cannot confirm details cheers

The last part of my railway career was in traincrew rostering (for a freight company), and although I retired in 2007 I suspect that similar problems remain. Throughout the eight years I was in rosters (1999-2007) I do not think there was one week where we were not asking for drivers to work rest days, or move start times. Sure some weeks were better than others, with only a few odd turns to cover here or there, but quite often at busy times if a driver on a rest week put his hand up to work I could easily find him a full week of work, cheers

I had held off replying before, as I don't know the SR London area very well. Locomotive coal for SR depots in the West Country was unloaded at the railway owned Fremington Quay on the River Taw. I believe that the loco coal for the large MPD at Exmouth Junction ran as train loads, possibly run as required. cheers

I suppose if it is a Syphon then it could either be in parcels use, or on an empty news van train to Old Oak. It might also be a van heading for Swindon Works either a parcels Syphon, or one in the Enparts fleet, so part of a freight service. I remember some days in the late 1970s the mid morning Kingsland Road to Swindon freight service often contained several npccs vehicles in the formation both Enparts and vans heading for works, cheers

I attended the first Modellers Show held at the Library back in 2021. I subsequently returned to the library to visit the very extensive railway book collection which occupies much of the first floor. I have also recently joined the Friends of the Railway Studies Collection, and attended some of the interesting monthly talks. As I have just completed a house move to nearby Teignmouth this is now a local event which I look forward to see. cheers

I do not see a thread for this. although full details are listed on the Events Calendar. The show is being held today Saturday 9th December 2023 from 10.00 to 16.00 at Newton Abbot Library in the Passmore Edwards Centre in Market St. cheers

Sorry I have not been on RMweb for over a week, we have just moved house. I joined Bristol TOPS in 1978, about 4 years after the office opened so much of the early pain was over. Most yard staff seemed quite accepting by then, as I mentioned earlier we had three local freight supervisors who worked both in our office, and also in the local yards. They were very helpful to us in getting information as they could see what we needed and why. There was sometimes frustration from the ground if shunt and train lists were not received in a timely manner, perhaps because of computer outage - but not too bad. Most of the TOPS clerks I worked with were good, some very good. In a couple of locations the TOPS clerk became a de facto supervisor who organised a lot of the yard working. cheers

Might that have been an ATI office at Stoke Gifford? I have a copy of the TOPS implementation team survey into the prospective site for TOPS offices in Bristol. West Depot was looked at for a Bristol West office, but never implemented, though there was an ATI office there, Harry Berry one of the clerks became a shift leader in Bristol TOPS. The former Bristol East signal box had apparently been thought of for the other Bristol (East) TOPS office, but in the event Bristol TOPS was located in the Bristol Panel Signal Box building. Avonmouth Royal Edward Yard had a TOPS office until yard closure in 1977 or early 1978, two of the TOPS clerks transferred to Bristol, and the Portacabin was relocated to Hallen Marsh for the use of the shunters. cheers

Hi Neil. I came to TOPS a few years after it was first introduced. I joined BR in 1977 in the civil engineers and used TOPS for wagon enquiries. Initially the terminal down the corridor was shared with another department, and worse than that it had a shared line with another terminal I think in another building. We had to press a button to 'poll' the machine, if the other terminal was in use we had to wait, when the bell rang we had about 30 seconds to get an enquiry in, then we had use of the terminal. In 1978 I transferred to Bristol TOPS office. We had 4 terminals, 2 terminals on line. The 2 terminals off line where we used the cards to produce shunt lists and train lists. By 1978 we were using the smaller punch cards though I was told the office originally used the larger punch cards. Within a couple of years TOPS started to go cardless, the Bristol office was the last in the West of England Division to go cardless, possibly in late 1980. By 1978 TOPS had been accepted by most outdoor staff, though there were some problems when we had outages and staff had to wait for lists. We were helped as some of the local supervisors who worked in the Bristol yards also covered shifts as Area Freight Assistant in the TOPS office, so they could see our problems, and be useful to us when they were working outside in the yard. Bristol TOPS Office in 1980. Cards are still in use at this date. The rack on the wall had the trainlist header cards as I recall. There were 4 terminals, the two nearest the camera were the two on line machines operating at 200 Baud I think. The nearest Y1 machine was the one that received the incoming train consists. The machine by the window, and another out of sight to the left were the off line machines we used to produce the yard shunt lists and train lists. Out of sight to the right was a block of 7 tables, three on the far side of the room occupied by the Area Freight Assistant and two freight clerks. The nearest 3 tables had the wooden card racks that represented the different yard files, the chair on the right is facing those desks. By the window was the desk with the yard file for Bristol Kingsland Road the busiest yard and one where a full yard file was kept, ie each pack of cards represented an individual siding. 24/5/80 cheers

Leisure travel patterns have evolved since the beginning of railways. Excursion trains ran from very early on for daytrippers. I would think that the idea of travelling by train for a prolonged holiday was originally mostly the preserve of relatively wealthy folk. The 1938 Holidays with Pay Act then gave many more people the chance for a week away, though of course WWII then intervened and it would not be until the late 1940s and early 1950s that the numbers travelling for a week away really increased. We moved to Weston-super-Mare in 1971 and my mum then ran a B&B guest house for the next 30 years. In the early 1970s she had many regular guests many would book for a whole week (or sometimes two), and she also served evening meals. Very quickly though in the 1970s the number staying for a full week soon dwindled, the trend became very much more towards people staying for just a night or two, or perhaps a long weekend. She also gave up serving evening meals after a few years as less people wanted them. Me and Mrs Rivercider have used trains extensively for leisure travel over the last 25 years, mostly in the West Country. We tend to have several 3/4 night breaks a year, often travelling by train. We have taken breaks from January to November and locations we have travelled to by train include Shanklin, Weymouth, Barnstaple, Dawlish Warren, Looe, Falmouth, Camborne, Hayle, and St Ives. We have often been surprised by the amount of leisure travel at odd times of the year, for example the number of folk travelling to and from Dawlish Warren mid morning on a Tuesday in February. Indeed the South Devon Metro service Exmouth to Paignton is normally well used along its length when I make my visits. St Ives station may be a basic version of the original, and the Cornish Riviera no longer arrives double-headed by 45XX tanks, but the half hourly service to St Erth is very well used even in winter. cheers