Porfuera

Surely the original roadmap was the catalogue? My reading of the catalogue is that the J94 and the 5700 were not in Phases 3 and 4 originally, the Class 60 and the 9F were instead - the 0-6-0s were in the bit after Phase 4 that read " Plus, BR Britannia, LMS/BR Black 5, J94,GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier and much more!" - although even that is open to interpretation as to whether or not that is Phase 4! That is interesting - AFAIR the first anyone knew of that page was when @Les1952 posted about it last July. It is hard to believe that it was around for eight months from November to July before anyone noticed it. I know that others have looked for it on the Wayback Machine and not found any reference to it before last autumn so you've done well to find that reference. I don't remember reading those items so I probably missed them. From those quotes it certainly looks like there will be three more 0-6-0s, contrary to what I was thinking. So now the question is: when? I still find it hard to believe we will see any of them this year - especially as the Class 66 has been delayed yet again until Autumn and the Class 50 has also recently gone from Spring to Summer I think. Also I can't remember much information lately about the Duchesses even though the website says Spring/Summer (the dates for these are currently showing as 30th May and 5th June, depending on the version). But maybe an 0-6-0 will be a 'surprise' - they are sorely needed, even though I won't be buying one - I'm waiting for the diesels. It will be very interesting to see what is said in April. Not long to go now!

Maybe I'm mis-remembering but to be honest I didn't think there was a mystery 0-6-0 in addition to the J94 and 5700 - I thought that unnamed steam 0-6-0s were mentioned in one of the livestreams about a year ago (something like "one in tooling and one about to go to tooling"). Then later, in the July 'Future of TT:220' announcement, the J94 and 5700 were brought forward into Phase 4, replacing the previous Class 60 and 9F that were originally in Phases 3 and 4. So to me those are the two previously-unnamed 0-6-0s. I do seem to remember Jintys and Terriers being mentioned but then SK would never say 'no' to any suggestion brought up in a livestream. And three steam 0-6-0s seems like overkill when there is still so much to do. I guess the only reason would be if they could bring it out imminently (say in the Summer) and then they could keep the J94 and 5700 in Phase 4, which is likely to be 2026 (with Phase 3 being 2025). Roll on the 2nd April!

The Hornby store shows the TT:120 sound-fitted steam locos at £222.99 (the Scotsman is £231.99) while analogue are £167.99. The Next18 decoder is £69.99, so cheaper to buy them DCC fitted than it is to fit them yourself. But I think you can get around 10% off at retailers although there are DCC fitted locos on a certain auction site for around £180 - or possibly less if you make an offer and it is accepted. But obviously there is less selection. On the website the TT:120 HST packs look to be cheaper than the 00 ones (especially the DCC ones) but you can probably get large enough retailer discounts that the difference is wiped out. In any event I don't think they were saying that TT:120 would be cheaper - IIRC someone asked that on one of the livestreams and SK and Carl went through a lengthy reply explaining why they weren't cheaper just because they are smaller. And I was looking at Z Scale on a German retailer the other day and pretty much everything seemed to be about the same price as TT:120 and that's almost half the size.

And as I said I know that - it is in the public domain. Do you feel you can stop now?

Well there is an item called stock levels which I wouldn't have thought they'd want known but as I say it is in the public domain so maybe they're not bothered. But why don't you just leave it now and let people get on and talk about the topic of TT:120 HSTs rather than continually trying to pick me up on insignificant little details?

And as I said it is in the public domain I'm just not sure that Hornby want it pointed out that it can be accessed, given that there is also other (possibly more sensitive data) available as well.

I never said he had inside secret knowledge - I said that he reported using data from the Hornby website so I decided to try to find it and now I'm sharing it with others since there was some discussion of when the blue/grey Mk3s would be available given that the GWR versions are mostly scheduled to be here in Spring. Why would you think I'm getting stressed by it? I'm just sharing what I've found - you seem to be the one getting stressed by what I've posted here.

Yes I understand all that but as I said above, someone on Facebook correctly 'predicted' the date on which the TT:120 GWR and blue/grey HST sets became available on the Hornby webshop this past week so presumably any near dates have some sort of validity. Obviously further dates are subject to any number of internal and external pressures and are less reliable. I also had an exchange on Facebook with someone who said he was a dealer and he said that they receive lists of forthcoming releases covering the next two or three months (I can't remember which) and he said that these are generally reliable so I am guessing that these dates and also the ones in the metadata in the webshop are from some kind of database (presumably the same database as there's no point on duplicating data if you don't have to since duplicating data can lead to errors being made). The date of the Class 66 I looked at is interesting in that 30th November is the last day of meteorological autumn so Hornby would appear to be going as late into Autumn as they can for the availability date for the Class 66s - one day more and the availability would be Winter rather than Autumn - so this date is presumably a guestimate, which is why I caveated the dates by saying that I assumed that they could change either way.

Cross-post from the HST thread - someone on Facebook was saying that the were able to look at the metadata on the Hornby web site to see the expected arrival dates of forthcoming items so I had a dig around the shop pages and I found the following: This is for one of the TT:120 Blue/Grey Mk3 TSOs - availability date 2nd June (I haven't checked any others): And for the Colas Class 66 it is 30th November (again, this is the only one I checked): However I guess they are not set in stone and subject to change in either direction. I also found an item that gives the stock levels for anyone that wants to have a dig around, but Hornby might not want that one publicised(!)

Sorry I don't understand what you're trying to say there - can you rephrase that? They don't show expected availability dates as such, just a season. Presumably the page works out the season from the availability date (I don't know for sure - I don't speak JavaScript or HTML - possibly the season is hardcoded elsewhere) but I assume the date is 'correct' rather than just being a placeholder given that the date was different for the Colas Class 66 I looked at: I guessed it was OK to post it (which is why I did) because it is in the public domain and anyone can find it and in any case the approximate date is shown on the page but Hornby might not want it pointed out. And as I said I assume they can change.

I'm not even sure I'm allowed to post this but having spent a while digging through the JavaScript on one of the shop pages I managed to find the following, which I guess is what the guy on Facebook was posting about - it gives the product availability date of one of the Blue/Grey TSOs as 2nd June, although I haven't checked any others. But I guess it isn't set in stone and it can change. Also, I checked the arrival date of the Colas Class 66 and that was 30th November, although again I didn't check the others.

There's someone who posts on Facebook who says he can access some metadata somewhere to find the delivery dates (I don't know where the metadata is or how he accesses it so I have no way of checking) but he predicted the arrival of the blue/grey HST pack correctly as the 14th March (although to be fair he only posted that on the 12th, but even so it was correct). He has also said that the blue/grey Mk3 coaches will be here on the 2nd June so it will be interesting to see! The only thing I would say is that any metadata would only be as accurate as the source data it is based on and that even if it is accurate I would imagine it is still subject to change. Some other dates he has 'shared' (this post from Monday 11th March): "GWR & BR Blue HST this week, Phase 2 buildings mid April, LMS Princess Coronation + Coaches + BR Mk2f coaches (Blue & Exec Livery) end of May, Class 50 + Class 66 + Hopper wagons end of June & Green Shunter November." But from last Friday: "class 66 is now showing 30 November" We shall see...!

Looking at the webstore, the Class 66s have been put back to Autumn so the KFAs now won't be needed until then at the very earliest, or more likely next year. The 66s keep getting delayed - maybe they've decided to concentrate more on earlier eras rather than have a very small selection of Era 11 locos and wagons. I'm sure we'll find out more in April!

The blue/grey and GWR HST packs were all showing as 'Order Now' this morning (that's both the analogue and digital HST packs for both liveries) but the sound fitted blue/grey have currently gone back to 'Create Stock Alert', which I guess means they're being processed. However the associated Mk3 carriages for these liveries look like they're still showing as Spring/Summer arrival - generally Summer for the blue/grey and a mixture of Spring/Summer for the GWR, I think.

I've just checked the Hornby webshop and all four of the HST packs appear to be available to buy now (so both analogue and sound-fitted blue/grey and GWR). I've checked one of each of the Mk3s for these packs and they're still showing as pre-order but fingers crossed for those too rather than the Spring/Summer dates they're currently showing.

But there doesn't seem to be much new stuff high up in that list - it seems to be mostly reliveries of existing items with the new locos and coaches being medium to low priority at the bottom. Surely if they're going to continue with TT:120 then shouldn't their priority be growing the range significantly rather than producing reliveries? I believe they're ditching the Phases but I would've thought they'd more or less stick with what's in the catalogue (i.e. Phases 3 and 4), plus the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 (both were in the announcement made last July) and a third steam 0-6-0 if there is one (I'm still not 100% convinced) and then the delayed Class 60 and 9F to follow after all those. They have a number of wagons listed in the catalogue and the range is currently a bit short of wagons. These are: Conflat with container; Mk1 Horse Box; VEA Van; KFA (Container and Tanktainer); Seacow; VGA Van. Perhaps there are some odd choices there but then they haven't shown much joined-up thinking to date - the horse box especially seems an odd choice (maybe it is one of their past favourites in 00) but I'd have thought something like a cattle wagon would be more useful. There are also other coaches in the catalogue: LNER Gresley Coaches and GWR & BR Collett Coaches (as well as more Mk1s, including a parcels coach). I would think there will also be some mention of what's to come after Phase 4 with any CAD or 3D prints that are available and maybe one or two surprises but I'd have thought they'd continue as planned - unless, of course, the new management wants to stamp its own mark on the range, in which case everything may well be up in the air. EDIT: I'm not saying all that will come this year - at current rates of production I'd expect Phases 3 and 4 to take 2 years at least, if not more - but I'd have thought that they'll stick with what's been announced so far.

An HST set is in the catalogue: TT1004M LNER East Coast Mainline HST Electric Train Set - Era 11 However there is no phase/date for this - @GenericRMWebUsername mentioned April, although given that the HSTs are being released later than initially scheduled I'd guess the date for the set will slip as well. A Class 08 shunting set was mentioned in passing about a year ago in one of the TT Talk livestreams at the same time as the green 08s but as has been mentioned already there isn't currently a great variety of rolling stock for them to shunt. I'm sure it will come but obviously they can't produce a whole range overnight and given the slippage we've seen with the delivery dates so far then who knows when we will see more rolling stock, although a vent van, a 21T mineral and a brake van would probably be sufficient (plus maybe a 7-plank wagon). Arnold also listed a couple of diesel sets at the start of last year: HN9900 Train Set "Colas Rail", 4-axle diesel locomotive Vossloh DE 18 with 2 x 4-axle silowagons "Transcéréales", ep. VI HINT HN9901 Train Set Class 66 + 3 Container Wagons

A new "Train Terminal" has been released on the Hornby website. It is mostly about the HSTs and Mk3 coaches (not much new there really), plus advertising for a Key Publishing event at the NEC and also the above-mentioned April 2nd announcement: https://uk.Hornby.com/community/hornbytt120-club/members-area/blog-and-news/class-43-hst-and-mk3-coaches-zooming-ahead

Oops! I hadn't spotted that! Although I did wonder why he didn't have to cut the inside of the 08 body and about the Class 66 and 37! It was wishful thinking, I guess - plus I'd just watched the Wotton Tor TT:120 video but I must pay more attention in future! 😳

This guy has fitted an 8-pin TXS decoder into a Class 08 (not what you were asking, I know) but he managed put the stayalive on the floor of the cab without any surgery, I think. A previous 8-pin conversion I saw (This Way Works) did the same but he had do some surgery to the chassis to get the stayalive to fit in the cab so I wonder if more recently manufactured stayalives are slightly smaller than the original ones. However, the two conversions have the stayalives in different orientations within the cab so maybe that's why. Having said that, the This Way Works conversion also included lights so there was extra wiring to fit in as well so perhaps he had to do the surgery because of that (I can't remember now but a link to the This Way Works video in one of my posts up above). Other people (e.g. Youtube channels: Wotton Tor, modeloco) seem to be able to fit a Zimo 6-pin MS490N sound decoder in OK - at least, if they had to do any surgery then I can't remember them mentioning it. I have no idea whether the 6-pin Zimo decoder is physically smaller than any other 6-pin decoders (i.e. non sound ones) and I'm not suggesting you use a Zimo (because IIRC the Zimo sound decoder plus speaker cost more than the actual loco!) but maybe you can find out what size they are vs other decoders and work from there.

In case anyone is thinking of ordering directly from Hornby, I received an email saying that they are offering double rewards points on in-stock items: "Double Hobby Rewards points are back, helping you to get more from your hobby! From today until the 11th March, you’ll get double Rewards points on all in-stock items. You can then put these towards your next purchase or one of our enticing Hobby-based experiences. Hurry! Double points are only available on all in-stock items until on Monday 11th March!" However, there are probably dealer discounts that are at least as good if not better than this and with those you get the discount immediately rather than against your next purchase.

Also the wagon has the UIC code Sggmrss - I assume the following would need to be included for UK loading gauge: f - Great Britain loading gauge, suitable for ferries and channel tunnel ff - Great Britain loading gauge, suitable for channel tunnel only fff - Great Britain loading gauge, suitable for ferries only For example, the Arnold container wagons are given as: Sffgmss Therefore the model might be too wide for for a UK-based layout, but if it does fit then Rule 1 applies! There is some information on UIC codes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_classification_of_goods_wagons Also, while looking around I found the InnoFreight website for Innowagons - they have a nice little gallery of short videos of their wagons: https://www.innofreight.com/videogalerie/

The Mk3 InterCity coaches are showing as In Stock

My main reason for posting that video was not to show "every possible loco and item of rolling stock available" but to show what could be done in the way of conversions to produce a 'serious' layout (whatever that may mean) and the fact that a very good layout can be built in spite of people claiming that TT:120 is only any good for train sets. I still say that a 'creditable' layout (again, whatever that means) could be produced in TT:120 right now even with the current range, especially with a bit of converting and scratch building as in the video. As I said before not everything is available RTR in any scale and compromises of many types have to be made, even in 00 or N. But I guess what you are saying is that such a TT:120 layout would not be what you personally want to build. That's fair enough but I think we all knew TT:120 would be pretty slow to develop even if Hornby had managed to keep to their original plans, which they obviously haven't, and so people developing layouts in TT:120 will be compromising more than most. And as has been said before, 'creditable'/'serious' layouts/modellers probably aren't are the target for this scale at the moment although some people are managing to build such layouts with what is currently available or planning them with an eye to what will be available shortly.

I think you're splitting hairs - ignore any 3MM stuff, Garry has done plenty of conversions of TT:120 locos, both steam and diesel using Hornby and 3MM society chassis and 3d printed bodies, also repaints of locos and coaches into other liveries and has built and is running 3d printed wagons that are not available as RTR so it can be done. The original criticism was that the range isn't big enough to build a 'serious' model railway but there is always going to be something missing from RTR to stop someone making an exact replica of some place and time and compromises always have to be made except by a very few people. How many people here could do better? And if you don't think what he's done is good enough then why not try to do better yourself?