Invicta

The last few shows I've been to, the going rate for them on secondhand stalls seems to be about £30-35 per coach, which is crazy money for what's basically a toy trainset-quality coach. I think I paid about 50 quid for a set of 4 a couple of years back, but have never been tempted to add to them at current prices.

This one seems to be a bit of a recurring theme right through the thread, and I'd agree it's a bit of a no-brainer for Hornby-with the Coronation redone in both unstreamlined and 'bathtub' versions, I'd be amazed if the Princess doesn't follow sometimes in the next year or two- it holds a pretty iconic place in the history of the Hornby range, right back to Horny O-gauge in the 30's, and the roots of Triang in OO, and Hornby do like their big express locos. 'Turbo' as well would just be the icing on the cake, and presumably a bit of clever tooling design could make both possible. IIRC (and without the benefit of digging out reference books) there's a fair bit of detail variation across a small class of a dozen locos which could give Hornby's designers some fun - wasn't the boiler on the 'prototype' batch (Princess Royal, Elizabeth and 'Turbo') different to those on the later build?

My '560' arrived from Hattons earlier in the week, but with a busy week and my test track currently packed away hadn't had an opportunity to test run it, so had been reading the reports of jerky running earlier in the thread with a degree of concern. Finally resorted to a powering up a yard of flexitrack on a window sill this afternoon and spent a while shunting an ICI hopper up and down quite happily so looks as if I have a good one. I'll give it a proper run in next week. I missed out on the earlier releases, so this is my first Peckett, and it really is a lovely little thing.

The use of 3-plank wagons for containers may not have been recommended, but certainly happened- Some of the earlier ex-Midland 3-plankers (D305) were converted for use as container wagons in about 1930, becoming D1823, although as the Essery book comments, it's unclear exactly what alterations were made for them to become 'official' container wagons Parkside Dundas also offered a kit for D1927, although I believe it was discontinued and hasn't reappeared since the range shifted under the Peco wing, logically enough with the Ratio version already in-house

It's definitely part of Bachmann's Mainline inheritance, possibly via Dapol,- I've got an LMS bauxite one stashed away in the loft which I think came in Dapol boxing- and IIRC it has holes moulded in the underside of the buffer beam for vac pipes, and a set of pipes included in the packaging LMS D1927, several thousand of them built in both fitted (8-shoe) and unfitted flavours from 1935 to nationalisation - and looking at photos in the Essery books, then it looks like disc wheels are OK. Unidentified lumps under tarps sound like a pretty logical load for these, but the Essery LMS wagon books also mention their use for crated loads, as improvised container wagons and as runners for overhanging loads on bolster wagons

Withdrawn from Coalville I believe, having been transferred there from Derby some months earlier. Coalville was a late stronghold for 2Fs, a handful being retained for the Leicester West Bridge branch duties until about the beginning of 1964. Without wading through a load of West Bridge pics, I think most of Coalville's late survivors were Deeley-cab variants though, and a bit off-target geographically for the West Midlands location Covkid is looking for

There's an H.C. Casserley photo of 030TW27, aka LMS 7589/WD No14, complete with GWR chimney at Derby in September 1948, which appears in Brian Haresnape's 'Fowler Locomotives' book. It's hard to tell any significant livery details, as the loco is in a fairly shabby state, as you'd expect, and the tanksides carry a fair amount of graffiti (a cartoon face and the name 'Charlie something I can't quite decipher'), and I can't see any obvious trace of the WD identity. The French number appears to be carried in small lettering on the bunker. The word 'London' is also clearly stencilled on the tankside ahead of the cab doorway, maybe part of a shipping instruction from it's return to the UK? There's also some small writing below this, but I can't make out whether that's more graffiti or anything 'official'.

I worked in libraries for about 20 years and early in my career encountered one of those- he insisted on waiting for ages to direct an enquiry to me, rather than my female colleague, on the basis that he'd rather talk to a man as it was a technical/scientific enquiry. The fact that not only had I'd been there about 3 weeks, while my colleague was much more senior and experienced than I was, but my educational background was purely arts/humanities, and her background was science/maths didn't seem to cut much ice with him....

- A thought occurs about the Fowler 2-6-4Ts- not only would they be the only LMS standard tanks to carry Crimson Lake, but they also had the later version of the livery with 'LMS' lettering on the tankside, and the number on the bunker, rather than the earlier Midland-style version with numbers on the tank and the circular LMS 'coat of arms' (or sometimes small 'LMS' lettering) on the bunker- the introduction of the Fowlers roughly coinciding with both the change in livery style and the end of painting passenger tanks in Crimson Lake. So are they the only LMS tank locos to carry the post-'28 version of Crimson Lake, or did any examples of pre-grouping locos get the later livery as well? Logically there shouldn't be, and I'm pretty sure I've never seen a photo of one, but did any odd examples just happen to be going through works on the cusp of the livery changes and get the full later-style Crimson Lake treatment? Vol 1 of the Essery and Jenkinson LMS Locomotives book does include the statement that the definition of passenger locomotive was 'often liberally interpreted' in the early days. An example we can add to the list Jason posted earlier in the thread are the big LNWR 0-8-4Ts, which didn't enter service until after Grouping - half-a-dozen of these (7943-9) were delivered in Crimson Lake. Were they ever used in passenger service, or was this just Crewe works exercising their independence...?

IIRC Piccolino were around from the mid/late 80's and mainly specialised in F1, Le Mans, Land Speed Record and general sports cars in 1/76 white metal- I definitely remember them being pretty expensive at the time, and the quality being very variable. The range does seem to have included a few vans, including a VW and Trojan. http://www.87thscale.info/piccolino.htm https://modelcars.mbeck.ch/model.php?lang=e&mode=search&herst=Piccolino&info=herst

Jeroen Booij also has a 'Maximum Minis' blog which is always worth a look, for regular updates both on recent oddball Mini discoveries, and progress on his own project- He's restoring the actual Le Mans Marcos, which he tracked down a couple of years ago, as little more than a bare bodyshell.- I'm just slightly envious! There's quite a bit of detailed analysis of the shell of the Le Mans car, to confirm it's identity and the changes made through it's history which is fascinating if you share my addiction to old racing cars... http://maximummini.blogspot.com/ (Sorry, more Minis! )

I certainly wouldn't regard myself as a connoisseur, but a model of '123' in preserved condition (to say nothing of LMS-condition versions reflecting it's final years in service) would be perfectly fine with me. I'm not that au fait with the prototype, but how much difference is there between original and 1924 condition? The museum locos used on specials in the 60's were 'Truro', the Compound, the Jones Goods, '123' and 'Gordon Highlander' IIRC? Hardwicke would be an obvious choice to add to that list- it's part of the NRM rather than Scottish collection, so would fit within Locomotion's remit, and saw the main line again in the late 70's- IIRC it ran double-headed with the Compound and 'Evening Star' amongst others: https://www.flickr.com/photos/54018467@N00/5338283675. The Midland Spinner might also be a pretty sound bet. Although if reboilered in 1924, '123' would still be accurate for the condition in which it last ran in service- IIRC to 1935 or thereabouts, so there's a choice of LMS Crimson Lake and lined black to go with the preserved condition CR versions... True- Not being within the NRM's orbit might make '123' a less-likely choice than something like Hardwicke or the Midland single, unless Glasgow Museum have been looking at the NRM/Locomotion venture and seeing potential for a foray into the same marketplace themselves...

I don't think it was based on anything that ever came out of Swindon- it looks like a GWR-liveried version of Triang's 'Caledonian' coaches. IIRC, I've read somewhere on Rmweb that these are supposed to represent early-1900's CR 'Grampian' stock, and although the sides aren't too bad, everything else on them is pure Triang BR Mk1- they lack the 6-wheel bogies of the prototype, and presumably the length was adjusted a bit to fit the Mk1 chassis & roof...

It started for me at Christmas of either 1970 or 71 aged (almost) 4/5 with a Triang-Hornby 'Steam Freight' set from the 1970 catalogue- Jinty, 'London Brick' bogie wagon, bogie bolster loaded with 3 Minic Thames 400E vans, bulk grain wagon and brake van. http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=560 I don't remember whether it was the same Christmas, or more likely some of this came spread across my birthday (early January) and the following Christmas, but this was added to with a Princess (impressive bit of joined-up London Midland thinking by my parents!), a Mk1 BSK and one of those short Triang Pullmans, a Freightliner wagon (slightly less-joined up thinking on the rolling stock front!) and a Triang Freightliner crane. Pinned down on a board with some extra track to add a siding for the crane, this became my first layout, although hardboard wasn't the best baseboard material to use... I've still got a lot of it- the grain wagon, brake van and Freightliner bits got lost/broken over the years, but the Princess (albeit very play-worn and hasn't been run in at least 30 years) is still lurking in a drawer, along with a couple more acquired in my teens, and the Jinty- repainted several times from it's original BR lined black '47606' guise- it's currently LMS black- remained a stalwart of all my teenage layouts and awaits an overhaul. It certainly had an influence on me- although I've come and gone from the hobby several times, I always seem to have kept an LMS/LMR flavour to my modelling activities

Certainly unusual, but not totally unknown elsewhere- I definitely remember as a kid growing up in N.W. Leicestershire in the early 70's, a near-ish neighbour having a mid/late 60's Rambler estate/station wagon. I don't recall them having any US military connections, but they ran a small nursery/garden centre so maybe the usefulness of a big estate car outweighed the complications in terms of service/parts availability of running an American car in the UK at that time. It certainly stood out amongst the assortment of late 60's/early 70's Ford/BL/Vauxhall products that occupied most driveways locally!

Point taken- Personally I'd much rather see time and money going into restoring and preserving what pre-grouping/'Big Four' stock still does exist, as well as doing quality restorations of Mk1 stock than see resources diverted into cannibalising Mk1s to build pastiches of original pre-48 stock of dubious authenticity. Those Toplights at Llangollen might soak up the £££s if restoration commenced, but if it doesn't, they'll deteriorate to the point that sooner or later someone will have to bite the bullet, decide they're beyond saving and scrap them. I'm probably going to sound horribly purist about this (and I'm very aware here of the fact that I don't put any time or money in of my own, other than as a paying customer), but if the preservation movement would rather spend money on replicas and pastiches than saving the few examples of the genuine article that do survive, then it's in danger of seriously losing it's way...

Yes, I was just thinking it would make a very nice sight on the Mountsorrel branch....Maybe once the signalling is sorted to enable passenger trains to work between the branch and the GCR main line, a guest appearance for a Rothley-Mountsorrel branch shuttle at a GCR gala would be just the ticket...

In an ideal world, someone involved in the project ought to have had the thought that at least a representative piece of this ought to be donated to one of the local museums, rather than being weighed in for scrap, but I don't suppose that's the case....

Although I'd certainly like to see more pre-nationalisation stock in use, I wonder whether spending money on converting Mk1's to create not-particularly-authentic replicas really is the way ahead, in comparison to putting money into restoring both original grouping-era coaches, and Mk1s. Let's not forget that Mk1's are now around 60 years old and arguably 'historic' in their own right, and to my mind equally deserving of seeing effort going into their preservation and restoration. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that most preserved lines are branches, and so never saw Mk1s in period- the same arguably applies to much of the motive power seen on them. I probably get to the Great Central at least 2-3 times a year at present, so have experienced a fair number of their Mk1's (maroon, blood & custard and WR choc/cream), and they've never struck me as looking anything but appropriate in the GCR's 'main line' context behind BR-liveried steam. On the other hand, when I was there for the winter steam gala a few months back, they probably did stick out like a sore thumb behind the visiting grouping-liveried B12 and Crab, especially when you compare the combination of B12 and the SVR's LNER teaks when 8572 visited the Severn Valley for their spring gala a couple of months later!

There's also a stretch of surviving track and pointwork still in situ on the station approach at Ashby I hadn't realised about the surviving tram until recently though!

Utterly off-topic, but GM South Africa did put a V8 in a (Chevrolet-badged) Firenza, known as a Firenza Can-Am- Only built in tiny numbers (100 iirc) to qualify it under the local saloon car racing rulebook. Ford did the same thing in the 80's with the XR8 which was a 5-door Sierra with a 5-litre V8 Nova Sport was a 500-off (or thereabouts) limited edition with twin Webers, for 1300cc class rallying- As I recall, Vauxhall got caught playing silly devils with the homologation paperwork at some point, and quite a few of the rally boys had to re-badge their Nova Sports as Opel Corsas and swap the Webers for injection until it was sorted out Going back on topic, I'd echo what a few people have said about there still being a fair bit of 60's stuff around- I was learning to drive in '84 (Dad's Talbot Alpine & Solara, and the driving school had Toyota Corollas), and thinking of mates' first cars, I can remember a mid-60's Imp, early Mk1 Escort (estate, rather than saloon though) and a Morris Minor amongst others.

Yes, I'm surprised they've not done a Midland or LMS version as well- I gave a couple the LMS treatment a few years back as a placeholder when I was putting together a batch of Slaters D305s as an ED set. Are the Hornby 3/4/6-planks based on any specific prototype, or are they just generic 19th-century POs? I've got a very vague memory of someone telling me the 3-plank - generic toy chassis apart- was based on a PO design (Gloucester perhaps?), although as Compound said, above the solebar, there's a definite resemblance to a Midland D305.

I've always liked Hornby's little 3 & 4-plank wagons, despite the crude toy chassis, and I've accumulated quite a number over the years, especially as they did a couple of local quarry liveries on them. That side-by-side comparison with the 90's version really does show how much of an improvement the new chassis makes- Combined with Hornby's present-day printing standards, it really doesn't look out-of-place alongside the more recent 'state-of-the-art' RTR wagons available.

Andersons were a well-established Whitstable coal merchant, founded by Absalom Anderson in the late 19th century. Photos of Whitstable harbour in the 20's/30's often show Anderson wagons much in evidence. There are useful pieces on them in both Vol 7 of the Keith Turton PO wagon books, and John Arkell's book on PO wagons in the South East, including photos of wagon no 76, presumably the livery reference for the Bachmann model and definitely side-door only. Oddly enough, Andersons did have some end-door wagons- their last batch of PO wagons, Gloucester-built and purchased as late as 1944, were half-a-dozen 13-tonners with side and end door- Presumably by that date, and with wagon pooling in force, were manufacturers supplying end door wagons only in the name of standardisation? Both the Turton and Arkell books illustrate one of Anderson's end-door wagons, with comments to the effect that the company probably saw very little of them. Photos of Whitstable harbour suggest coal-handling facilities were fairly basic- harbour cranes etc., and the archaic practice of 'whipping'- hoisting baskets of coal from ship to quay using ropes and pulleys slung from the ship's spars, lifted by 'whippers' who jumped off an elevated trestle, using their body weight to hoist the load - was apparently still in use in the 1920s

Yes, it was there from the early days of preservation until the late 70's/early 80's- I had at least one run behind it when I was a kid