Knuckles

Yo yo! I haven't posted here in a while. Been busy with oodles of stuff. Anyway, for my 18ft x 11ft 00 NWR loft layout (See my Sparkshot YouTube channel) I'm building I needed some track settas at radius's I couldn't find online as they were at the time of looking either sold out or only sizes that were different were on offer. So, I've 3D printed my own. 20, 22 & 24" radius in ABS plastic at a rough 200 microns. Just the ticket. 20" radius in the track is just a concept picture, it isn't going there or being set thus.

An enjoyable recap and read. Cool to see the S1 TVS props too.

I use HMRS Pressfix as water slide Decals, technically wrong but works perfectly, prefer to spend longer positioning. Am I the only one?

Regarding the countersunk heads I did make it clear to you we countersunk the 1st heads on the 1st wagon and after they were printed it was decided by the client for the next 3 to make them stick out a little to at least have some representation of them for paint to grab too. People can always nick them off, 2 second job. For the few slightly thick details it's a matter of pandering to Shapeways' printing tolerances and seeing detail rather than it being undetectable. Could always obtain one and complete it (nick the heads off if needed) then you could judge it more accurately.

Ok thanks, will look into it. Only the 1st was programmed as a vehicle but it was reprogrammed correctly after. Odd how the pacific with Hornby 8 pin decoder stops point 7 working just by being on the track. Green icons in the app move yet point doesn't fire, even after changing point motor and it's address. Other loco doesn't cause a bother. Will figure it in time. --- Edit: Now it's working. Didn't do anything, just tried on a different day. Gremlins.

Had plenty of courtesy until was repeatedly accused wrongly and spoke down to. Yep, I sure do have different ideas about the world. 'On ya go,' funny. I'll wind my neck in if people prove a consistent, logical truthfull argument. 4 pages (p11 onwards) people can read and quote if they're bothered. Probably not.

"Probably not the best" Why? They pis5ed me off multiple times. Tether ended. I'm not 'most' people, neither do I pander to herd mentality so forget 'band wagon' arguments. I care about what is actually real, regardless of if others see me as a prick in the process. I never once went off topic, yet several times was accused of it, also repeatedly I apparently said the app was faulty several times - I didn't, that was another. Apparently I'm wrong about some loco's shorting out the new turnouts n slips...even though it's a known issue on SOME locomotives, but that gets put to me condescendingly. Shorting was a passing remark in the bulk of the post that very much was in context of the Z21 app. Then when I reply to a comment about the shorting, apparently that again qualifies as me 'not keeping on z21' topic, even though it was a reply. Both of them clearly have a major issue with basic comprehension and logic. As I said before. I'm greatful for the help recieved. The rest of this crap I'm not. - Figured half of it out. One of the loco's when placed on the rails anywhere stops point 7 working, only point 7 including a replaced Smail as a test So it's likely an issue with loco chip or a partial incompatability with Z21 language or whatever.

No & no. If you have a problem with my text, tough. I'm done being civil with the both of you. Will figure it myself.

"Feel free to keep posting your issues in the z/Z21 app thread but be equally prepared not get resolutions to your issues as they are nothing to do with the app - as I said, all you gripes and complaints about the app not doing x or y have all been down to issues external to the app and the app has performed correctly." Its easy to say that if you know what the issue is - I don't. Z21 and Smail communication is a related subject. If you indeed do know what the issue is why didn't you just say so instead of being an awkward bugga. Never mind. Will figure it out myself. Can't be arsed bouncing this 5shit with you all the time. If anyone wants to chime in after reading the previous page - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/154348-circuitron-smail-point-motors-help-request/&tab=comments#comment-3956731

This latest issue I don't yet know what the fault is whether it is a duff Smail, wiring or a communication issue with Z21. I haven't once said the Z21 app has a fault, although other people have several times if you go back and read through. You yourself mentioned the DS workaround of single points for programming. This likely isn't an app fault but could have been designed better to not have to need a work around. As for the shirt circuit being a sin to mention. I mentioned it with two sentences out of ten in that post - not a big deal, and it wasn't a question. I also mentioned it above as a reply to Melmerby, also not a question. I'm well within Z21 conversational context. I'm greatfull for the help you've gave me thus far but this speech control nonsense is fruitless. I wouldn't mind if your argument had a tight consistent logic yet all I'm seeing is a colander. The Circuitron Smail thread has been created anyway.

Hello. I'm a new user of the Roco Z21 and Circuitron Smails. Have had a bit of bother here n there but most of it's sorted. Guys at the New Z21 App have been helpfull for which I'm greatful. Upon latest post however it is thought that the question is no longer relavent to the Z21 app. I disagree but have trawled through 35 pages here anyway looking for another suitable thread and not found one, so here we are. I've got 6 programmed and working with the Z21 app so far but the 7th doesn't want to. Below is mostly a cut n paste job from the other thread. If anyone can help thanks in advance. - The tandem I've added 2 motors to and joined the 2 frog wires like instructions say, ran an engine through it slowly and no shorts so seems correct polarity. Programed one of the motors fine, the other......it's ignorant. (Programming on 2 standard point icons 1st then will go to tandem icon after, like Double Slip workaround.) Issue: The programming light on the Smail often goes out and even when it doesn't pressing the green point iconon the Z21 app is like prodding a bored bear. The icon moves but the motor rarely fires. It'll eventually do the registration wiggle then after that it goes back to sleep. Too much honey. Any ideas here? :-/

If I'm pressing the green point on the Z21 app and the point motor isn't firing every time then the Z21 app is part of the puzzle. Unless the issue is with the motor or wiring (unsure yet) then I don't see how this isn't contextually tied to the app as a subject. The Z21 has to communicate with the Smail. If I went to or started a Smail thread and explained the same problem I'd get someone say the same thing but backwards, that I should ask it in the Z21 thread instead. Edit: Have made a Circuitron Smail thread anyway, just seem pointless when for several days we've been talking about the Z21 app' and Smails in conjunction the whole time.

No. It's a known fact some loco's don't like the new Peco Unifrog Bullhead turnouts and the older electrofrog DS as the back of the flanges on fat wheels can bridge the gap between the closure rails. Anticipated the possibility before I brought them due to research. (Edit: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140920-Hornby-locos-shorting-on-points/ ) It's only some locos. Can fix it. Any idea on the Smail issue?

Since the DS fiasco I've rewired the original point so the frog tip works ok and also wired two more standard points with the Smails and they are ok too. The Pacific stalls n sometimes trips system due to those insulators being too close together - nice one Peco. So it's the nail varnish or cutter and solder bodge. The tandem I've added 2 motors to and joined the 2 frog wires like instructions say, ran an engine through it slowly and no shorts so seems correct polarity. Programed one of the motors fine, the other......it's ignorant. (Programming on 2 standard point icons 1st then will go to tandem icon after, like DS workaround.) Issue: The programming light often goes out and even when it doesn't pressing the green point icon is like prodding a bored bear. The icon moves but the motor rarely fires. It'll eventually do the registration wiggle then after that it goes back to sleep. Too much honey. Any ideas here? :-/

Worked! Many thanks for all the help. Will do a shout out in the vid concerning the whole ordeal. Rather than feeling all fuzzy I'm just relieved it's out the way. The pacific still stalls there a fair bit but I've put that down to the slip not being 100% flat and the loco requiring more pick ups ideally, only has them on the drivers. can sort that later. But the slip logic, movement and electrics all seem to be working at last. Wiring looks a dogs dinner but it works now so not touching unless have to. Logic included also. Beer time. EDIT: Thought I'd do a neater version partially hand drawn. 1st pic is the wiring I was using before minus the physical toggle switches and that I was adding power from 1 & 8. Next after that is what I've done and last picture is the alternate. As I understand it red n black may need switching too but either way, hopefully it'll help some one. Took me 3 days to install 2 motors! Bad init!

Ok brill. Will give it a go now and report back. Will end up being a video this.

So does 1 need to be joined to 2 and 3 to 8? And if its backwards join 1 to 3 and 2 to 8 instead. 1 and 8 to my knowledge (lol!) need power to move the points physically.

These single points have their stock rails n closure rails wired together so it isn't blade contact that switches frogs. It might be on the H0 DS though, unsure off my head. So for example, for Smails are you saying wire a red track to pin 2, the black track to pin 3 and the frog to pin 4? Also if I do that does pin 1 and 2 need to be wired together and pin 3 and 8 wired together? I ask as pins 1 and 8 need power to move. Note: the red n black wires to the Smail are joined to the same bus as joined to the same track.

Didn't trip the system, loco just stops on frogs unless you go fast and the other loco will glide through slowly rarely stopping. Continuity tester has nothing when you touch frog to any other rail or wire below board. Instead of insulating fishplates on the frogs there are just 1mm gaps so DS can easily be lifted later for Bullhead. DS has 4 connections. A black to 1 stock rail and a red to the other stock rail. A frog joined to opposite point motor and same for the other frog n motor. The Smail wiring I don't think is wrong as it worked before on Tortoises. I know there are multiple ways of wiring frogs but this has always worked. Frogs are dead, they don't make the continuity meter move when joined to another rail.

Didn't work. FFS. Frogs seem dead still. Tried touching frog under board to either black or red as well as over on tracks and no biscuit. Any ideas? I've showed ye how they were wired. Worked on single points and single slip on a P4 layout with Tortoises no bother. This is no fun, just angering the 5hit out of me.

I thought that initially but after getting the continuity tester out, touching the frog to either stock or closure rail has no continuity...so the frogs seem dead, I did try n move the logic settings but that just seemed to move the point blades which I didn't want so reverted them...UNLESS......they all need to be swapped around 100% so mechanically they still go where we want but then the frogs have the opposite state (I.E power), then maybe that is what is needed. I'm unsure currently if that is what it is or if it's a wiring issue.

Ya I don't think there is a short anymore. The frogs are dead it seems. Continuity tester when touched to either stock rail and a frog shows nothing happening. So trying to figure why now. The frog droppers are joined to the frogs, tested that continuity and all fine. Dunno.

Ok it appears after using continuity tester the frogs are still dead. Didn't realise. Moving the logic 1s n 0s hasn't solved it as the blades move unwantingly so reverted it. Hmm, unsure what the fix is. I've wired the frog wire to the opposite motor like I did on the older DC layout so wired the DCC Smails same as the older Tortoises minus the physical switch. Pins 1 & 8 to track, 2&7 joined and to frogs. This has worked on single point but seems not the slips. Have added pic of wiring for single point as access is easier although slips are same. Plus added pic of current slip logic.

Good idea, will try that now and report back.

Alan Kettlewell: Me: No indeedy, got some morning gusto thankfully. Alan Kettlewell: jpendle ----Ahem...Yep. Found the issue at last. Seems when tapping on the DS icon in programming it can't tell the difference between the 1st and 2nd tap...which is pretty dodgy designing in my opinion. I'd say a mix of design oversight with me being a dun-cough. No instructions force you to figure it all out though. So the fix is as WIMorrison suggested: So, once I had blades moving one at a time in the logic section like they were supposed to I figured it out in less than 5 minutes as I said I likely would. Many thanks to you all for putting up with me, it's appreciated. You will all be getting a collective thank you shout out in the next layout update (or the one after) for anyone who follows my content, will also document this conflab in there so others can hopefully not contract Alopecia through it. ---------------- There is another issue however, one I anticipated. As I'm using Peco Code 75 Live Frog H0 Double Slips....out of the two chipped loco's the Pacific is shorting out around the frogs, no doubt where the two insulating breaks are for the closure rails. I'll be replacing them with Bullhead ones at the earliest opportunity once Peco release them but for now gotta get this sorted before can move on. The issue might be at the frog where the plastic bits are so that might need tweaking instead. Now I usually modify my points to be 'DCC Friendly' or electrically operate like hand built points. I've hand built P4 points before and a single slip and got them working fine so I'm not a complete n00b here, however I doubt bonding the closure rails to the stock rails will do the trick here. If I increase the insulation where I've circled would that sort it? I believe so but if not please advise me, if so I'll likely cut into the metal next to the plastic to keep the Wing rails further apart then if it's dead bond closures to the stocks. Either way what ye think is best? The DMU goes across it slowly with no bother 8 or 9 out of 10 times but the pacific is useless unless it is in rocket mode.