pauliebanger

Ouch! That's potentially a lot worse than 'inconvenient'. Don't think I'll mention it again, don't want to lead anyone in the direction of a potential catastrophy. Thanks again for the insight. Best regards, Paul

Thanks Ron, Tech 6, that's the one I was thinking of I've never used one but someone on here gave them a glowing report. Interesting note about actual operation, not very convenient really, is it? Best regards, Paul

No, Keith, that's just not correct. It's perfectly possible to bring a DCC sound model which is operating on analogue to a stand whilst the sounds and lights remain active for as long as you wish. No external power is required, it's a normal feature of quality sound decoders. I've written about this before on RMweb and in Hornby Magazine. This is certainly true of ZIMO sound decoders and I'm pretty sure Loksound would be similar. Uniquely, (I believe), ZIMO sound decoders will also operate with Stay Alive capacitors when on DC, which can provide back-up power if your track is dirty or not prefectly laid. With a normal DC controller, you will get all the sounds except those which require the pressing of a button, for the simple reason that there are no such buttons to press on analogue controllers, normally. So you could expect to hear, randomly generated sounds like injectors and blowers for steam and compressors, exhausters, fans, rail clack plus other automatic sounds like brake squeal and wagon 'snatching' sounds. In addition to the main engine sounds, which will vary with road speed, the start-up sequences of diesel engines plus transitions through the power bands. Engine shut-down sounds can be played if the decoder is also equipped with a suitably sized Stay Alive capacitor. (ZIMO) There is a hybrid DC/DCC system available which, although of limited capability, is able to send messages over DC for things like sounding the horn or whistle blowing. Someone else will be able to identify this controller. Bear in mind that these DCC on DC solutions will still require a DC sound decoder, which the original post said is what he was trying to avoid due to the expense. There are a couple of sound solutions for DC users which does not use a DCC decoder and are therefore much less expensive. MyLocoSounds, here: http://www.mylocosound.com/ And UK based Train Tech http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/sound I mention them as DCC decoder-free solutions. I don't endorse either of them so the OP will need to undertake his own assessment of quality and suitability. Best regards, Paul

The question is straightforward, but the answer will, of necessity, be a little more involved. To simply diasable the Brake Key on any ZIMO decoder, make CV309 = 0. However, the momentum settings CV4 will probably be too high as it may have been set for sustained coasting. (that's why there's a separate brake control to slow or stop the model). You will, therefore, probably also need to lower the CV4 value to something more comfortable for controlling deceleration with the throttle alone. Best regards, Paul

If you prefer to have the DMBS leading when your controller shows 'forward', read the value in CV29. if it's an odd number, subtract 1 and re-enter, if its an even number, add 1 and re-enter. But, as you say, does it matter? if you fit a sound decoder, I agree with other recommendations that it will benefit from improved installation of the speakers (there's one in each powered car). Best regards, Paul

Everything works as specified. Any mismatch between the written instructions and what appears to be happening is due to misunderstanding of what they say. The instructions are correct, but could have been made more clear. The numbers refer to Function Outputs (Aux), not the numbers of the buttons on your DCC controller. YesTor It's all to do with the function mapping. I've offered to help setting up for ZIMO equipped models, Bachmann by ZIMO included. Your questions: 1. That is correct. No forward cab light, train manager's rear cab light only. 2. Day and night mode are switchable by function key on DCC (F key 14 in the sound fitted model). 3. F5 can be for whatever you map to it. In the sound fitted version it's to change the acceleration and deceleration rates making it react to throttle changes more rapidly and engine sounds operate differently to match. Best regards Paul

Charlie, I've no idea who designed the circuit boards. I imagine it was the resident designer or design team in Kader's China factory. If so, he or she probably has never been to the UK let alone have personal knowledge of the inner workings of vintage UK DMUs lighting. Their design for the circuit board, therefore, can only be informed by the specification handed down to them. If it performs what has been specified, it is, by definition, good design. Could more features have been specified? Yes they probably could. But then we come into the cost/value area, decisions on which as you will know from your own experience, only the manufacturer can make. Would you or I have specified a different arrangement for the lighting functions? I think that's very likely if we were targetting DCC only, where the high functionality of top quality decoders could shine. But not everyone will wish to pay for high end decoders, and it seems to me that the board is capable of providing much more functionality for DC analogue users than that to which they are accustomed. Perhaps Bachmann are looking at a wider picture? If things aren't exactly 'correct' in our view, for many others they will be happy that Bachmann are raising the bar on functionality for them in the way they operate their models. We're not so far apart as it may seem, Charlie, but there is a big difference between providing a specification and designing product to meet those specifcations. Kind regards, Paul

I couldn't agree more, that's why for ZIMO I have individual sound projects for Class 101, 105, 108, 109, 117 and 121 which use different sound recordings appropriate to each class. Each of them allows either fully automatic gear changing or manual gear changing on the same decoder, so any user can decide how they wish to operate their DMU gear changing from minute to minute without being tied to one method or the other. Best regards, Paul

Any decoder with enough function outputs is capable of that. PluX22 is irrelevant. It could have been specified to do this, yes. It's sad that is was not. But the circuit board achieves what was intended, what is stated in the instructions. The design of the circuit board, therefore, is correct. The issue is whether what was intended could have been improved if the designer had been given a different specification by whoever decided only the rear cab light should be illuminated. You can call it a design error as often as you wish, but that doesn't make it any truer than the first time you said it. It's clearly the case that you do not agree with the specification, the parameters which were given to the designer. If the design functions according to these, then there's no fault in the design. There's room to argue that the parameters, the specifications, which were laid out initially have turned out to be less than what could have been achieved. What are the other 'issues' and 'limitations' you have had to work around. Are you saying that the sound project you mention does not operate all the model's features as described in the instructions? What does not work? Best regards, Paul

Hi Chris, That's what happens when you post a question then not come back to see if you have had a response. LOL. I created the Class 15 sound project for Digitrains, so the basic sounds and operations will be the same, but the current version I have is much enhanced with additional features I've designed since. I'm glad you got fixed up. Best regards, Paul

There's no design error, the circuit board works as specified. i.e rear cab light is for train manager's use, can be on or off whether travelling or not. As Charlie says, this is controlled by the additional components on the PCB, no decoder can overcome this without changes to the PCB, so it's a specification decision that we probably have to live with. I would have liked to have the driver's cab light available and separately controlled too, but the specification prevents this, even though a decent decoder could have managed this quite easily on its own. But this is not the cause of aquilla's problem. The instructions give details of the Function Outputs which operate the described features. These are not the Key numbers on your handset (Function Keys) but numbers of the physical connections to the decoder. These are not necessarily the same number as the Function Outputs, so some of them are, coincidentally, the same and some are not. The instructions to which you refer could be clearer in this respect. To match the actual lighting features to the F keys you wish to operate them will, it seems, require some remapping. Not a problem to solve this if we know which decoder you have installed. If it's a Bachmann or ZIMO I can help, if it's some other brand, someone else will probably oblige. For DCC running, all dip switches should be left in the 'on' position (as delivered). The 'off' position is for turning lights off when on DC. Best regards, Paul

Dave, My project for ZIMO was recorded from Wimblebury, but I also have Whiston and some fab Stannier Hooter blasts from Foxfield Railway (coal mine end), courtesy of Nigel, (Avonside 1563) if you would prefer them to the normal whistle. Or, of course, I could put both whistle and Hooter on the same decoder and you can choose which AWD to use as it suits you. As you know, all my projects have long coasting and manual progressive brakes on F2. I've been expecting an email since I saw this the other day. LOL. Best regards, Paul

Since you prefer to use a ZIMO, here's one I prepared earlier (For Hornby Magazine Issue 153) This has my authentic J72 sound project recorded from the only existing real J72 and available only from Digitrains. This has a ZIMO MX659N18 (because that's what I had available at the time) but an MX658 will fit easily. The speaker is already included with the model and is fitted below the PCB, you can see it in the picture below. There are solder pads on the loco's PCB to which it's possible to connect a stay alive. The Kung Fu pictured will give up to about 8 seconds running and sound. This duration can be shortened with CV153.

You are correct. The decoder is intended to fit from the side not shown in your photo. That is, from the side labelled 'decoder side'. You should see that the Pin 11 position (index) is blocked to ensure correct orientation. The pins on ZIMO Plux decoders are normally long enought to fit 'though the board' like this but there have been some earlier batches which have come to light recently which have shorter pins. ZIMO are aware of the problem this may cause in these circumstances and all recent production have the correct specification pins. There is a work-around for the decoder you have, if you are brave enough. I'm not encouraging you to attempt this but it does work! Carefully remove/cut away the black plastic at the base of the decoder's plug, This will give the additional length required. Best regards, Paul

Well done Bif, this will fill a hole in many a sound-fitted fleet. Best regards, Paul

Welcome home Andy, we've missed you. Best regards, Paul

No, a PCB is not strictly necessary. Many early DCC models were hard wired in the way you propose. The PCB serves several function - physical location of components, compact 'wiring' solutions, insulation of electronics, provision of a socket which can be used for a decoder or a blanking plate for use on DC and so on. This is more about convenience, and most likely simplified production line processes, than necessity. The decoder's PCB will serve well enough. Best regards, Paul

The Z21 can update all ZIMO decoders (from any source) provided it is a type fitted to Roco models. Other types, especially but not exclusively the older designs, are not supported. It's also worth noting that, due to hardware, the software of some decoder types cannot be updated to the latest version number available for other types. e.g MX621 to which no software beyond V31.5 can be loaded by any interface, including ZIMO's own MXULFA. For a full description of what's possible, see this page: http://www.zimo.at/web2010/support/MX-Decoder-SW-Update.htm The dowload is a 'container' which has all the latest software for each decoder type, but that does not mean that all types are at the same version currently. For example, the latest for most types including sound is V39.0 (though I'm currently working with V39.2) but for MX621 it is V31.5 and for MX821 it's V30.0 The header in the ,zsu file denotes which decoder types and software versions are included in the release. There are sometimes two or more different software versions for the same outwardly similar decoder types, depending upon hardware revisions. Obviously, the earlier revisions still deserve support if the hardware is suitable. So, although there might be a more recent (datewise) container download, the version it holds for any particular decoder type may not be any advance on the software currently loaded on the decoder in question. The English Language versions of the decoder manuals always lag behind the corresponding German versions so it's always worth having a look there to check if there's more up to date info available. CV250 = 117 is listed there as an MX617. Der Typ (ID) des Decoders kann bei Bedarf aus CV #250 ausgelesen werden:130=MX630 (2020)133=MX633 (2020)134=MX634 (2020)135=MX635 136=MX636137=MX637142=MDS442160=MX660165=REE_DU65166=MX600171=MX671175=MX675 176=R72016177=MX617181=MX618182=MX682186=MX605N187=MX605FL 188=MX605SL189=MX605190=MX659192=MX622 (2020)193=MX638195=MX616196=MXKISS 197=MX617198=FLM_E69199=MX600200=MX82 200=MX82 201=MX620202=MX62 203=MX63 204=MX64 205=MX64H206=MX64D207=MX680208=MX690209=MX69 210=MX640211=MX630-P2520 212=MX632213=MX631214=MX642215=MX643216=MX647217=MX646 218=MX630 (2011)219=MX631 (2011)220=MX632 (2011)221=MX645222=MX644223=MX621224=MX695 RevB225=MX648226=MX685227=MX695 RevC228=MX681229=MX695N230=MX696231=MX696N232=MX686233=MX622234=MX623235=MX687 236=MX621-FLM237=MX633238=MX820 RevA240=MX634241=MX686B242=MX820 RevB243=MX618244=Roco NextG245=MX697 RevA246=MX658247=MX688248=MX821249=MX648 RevC,D250=MX699251=Roco 2067252=Roco ICE253=MX649254=MX697 RevB Sorry, the formatting was lost on posting. Best regards, Paul

Great video, thanks for posting the link. I've only tested this on pure DC so I can only vouch for that from experience, but the ZIMO manual says that PWM feedback contollers are OK too. If you already own such a controller, then it would be worth a try. If not, then pure DC with be fine. The main purpose (I believe, never used one) of feedback DC controllers is to provide fine regulation of the motor so that, for instance, constant speed can be maintained on tight curves, gradients and so on. The Simplex sound project, like all my projects, is already set up to include the same (adjustable) BEMF regulation on DC as would be available on DCC so feedback controllers are unnecessary from this perspective. Inertia and momentum settings are usually disabled in DC in my projects as I use a high momentum for sustained coasting and a brake key to provide retardation. No access to the brake key, as on DC, would make the model difficult to stop precisely. However, it is straightforward to set modest values in CV3 (inertia/acceleration) and CV4 (momentum/deceleration) and it is equally simple to set the decoder to use CV3 and CV4 to provide these features when in DC mode. These changes could be made before loading the sound project to a decoder, in which case they would become 'custom defaults' or if you have access to a DCC controller the existing values in these CVs may be changed 'in situ'. Best regards, Paul

Hi Phil, No, there are no special set-up requirements. If there's a stay alive fitted correctly and the decoder is set up to run on DC it should work as shown. However, I've noticed that even though the decoder will respond normally to control inputs, if you change from DCC to DC immediately, the stay alive will not work as expected since it is already charged it will retain the decoder's settings, i.e. it believes it is on DCC. This creates an anomaly when there's another form of power. It's almost as if you need the decoder to 'switch off and switch on again' which it will do automatically once the stay alive has fully discharged. Try your test again when the stay alive has been fully discharged (it retains some charge long after the motor and sounds stop). The same effect would probably happen if you temporarily disconnected the stay alive from the decoder, since it's the decoder's memory which needs to be cleared. Give it time for the stay alive capacitors to recharge fully on DC (this will vary with the capacitance of the pack fitted) before testing and you should find you will get a similar duration. Best regards, Paul

Is this the model you're talking about? This has a ZIMO MX648 sound decoder fitted, plus a speaker so I should imagine the much smaller MX617 non-sound decoder would be a doddle to fit. Best regards, Paul

Hi Chris, There's this one: This is an 0 gauge of course, but the sound project, produced in conjunction with Class 15 Preservation Society and recorded from D8233, is also available for 00 gauge. PM me if this is of interest to you. Best regards, Paul

Doh! That's what happens when a) you are concentrating more on your bacon butty than what you type and b) not reading what you've written before posting. Sorry. Alternatively: Congratulations on passing the tutorial's in-built comprehension test. In any event, thank you for your kind words regarding my sound project. I'm glad that it's giving you such pleasure. Best regards, Paul

Sometimes, the obvious is only obvious in hindsight, so don't beat yourself up about this. Your symptoms could have been replicated if, for instance, the value in CV155 had somehow been changed to 26. My questions were intended to reveal any such inadvertant changes which may have given a clue to a solution. I know that you stated you had not made changes, but, for diagnostic purposes, that's not the same as knowing what was actually on the decoder. I'm glad that you have resolved the issue and can continue to enjoy your new model. 'Fancy a brew?' Best regards, Paul

In the SLW Class 24 sound project there is no connection between Shunt Mode (F Key 21) which are functions affecting speed, CV155, and reduction of (CV3) inertia and (CV4) momentum , CV156, and the power lever positions at F keys 23 - 26 which are 'sound only' features. What is it about the performance which gives you the impression that F21 is engaged by engaging F26? If you can read CVs 155 and 156 you should find that they each have the value 21. If not, please confirm the actual values you read. Best regards, Paul