Terminus acting as both a Marine and a General station ?

[puck]

Littlehampton? Todays station is pretty much Minories but in times past had goods facilities along river Arun

[Engineer_London]

Ramsden Dock station, Barrow Island.  Long gone [1915].  Fascinating rail network in the vicinity [Furness + industrial] and a few traces remain of this.

 

Some background and pictures via:  http://cumbrianrailways.org.uk/index.php

[Pacific231G]

PS: would Ramsgate Harbour qualify? It certainly served a 'general' function, but I'm less sure about whether it provided a connection to shipping services.

 

Gosport? I think so.

 

And, Cowes, although very badly sited for the ferries.

Despite its location and name I think Ramsgate Harbour was a conventional terminus- though its design certainlly wasn't. Passengers may well have used it to get to shipping services but I don't think the railway was involved in that by running boat trains and I can see no sign of any harbour sidings.  

I've looked at the detailed OS maps for this station

 

There were a fair number of termini near shipping services that passengers may well have gone on to use. Fort William and the McBrayne's steamer pier is a very obvious example but AFAIK trains there never ran in conjunction with the ships even though the platform 1 line carried on across the approach to the steamer pier and on to a smallish quay with a couple of sidings on it (fish?). I'm sure McBrayne timed their services with a close eye on the railway timetable but I've never heard of any direct involvement in that by the WHR or its successors. .  

 

I think Gosport, opened in 1841,  was originally a bit like Kingswear and the main station for Portsmouth - connected by a ferry though that was actually some distance from the station- until it got its own railway in 1847 with a direct line to London a bit later. Gosport was quite a grand station that was soon eclipsed though it was the extension to a private station in the Navy's Royal Clarence Victualling Yard that was used by Queen Victoria and family to travel to and from Osbourne House on the Isle of Wight. 

[Fat Controller]

Despite its location and name I think Ramsgate Harbour was a conventional terminus- though its design certainlly wasn't. Passengers may well have used it to get to shipping services but I don't think the railway was involved in that by running boat trains and I can see no sign of any harbour sidings.  

Ramsgate+Sea+front+train+turntable.jpg

1864station.jpg

I've looked at the detailed OS maps for this station

 

There were a fair number of termini near shipping services that passengers may well have gone on to use. Fort William and the McBrayne's steamer pier is a very obvious example but AFAIK trains there never ran in conjunction with the ships even though the platform 1 line carried on across the approach to the steamer pier and on to a smallish quay with a couple of sidings on it (fish?). I'm sure McBrayne timed their services with a close eye on the railway timetable but I've never heard of any direct involvement in that by the WHR or its successors. .  

 

I think Gosport, opened in 1841,  was originally a bit like Kingswear and the main station for Portsmouth - connected by a ferry though that was actually some distance from the station- until it got its own railway in 1847 with a direct line to London a bit later. Gosport was quite a grand station that was soon eclipsed though it was the extension to a private station in the Navy's Royal Clarence Victualling Yard that was used by Queen Victoria and family to travel to and from Osbourne House on the Isle of Wight. 

That first photo looks like a pre-WW2 '0' gauge train set, the building appearing to have been fretted out of thin wood. I don't think it ever served as a 'harbour' station, as commercial shipping services weren't particularly important at Ramsgate. Indeed, were there any (apart from fish) before the 1970s ferries started?

Pembroke Dock served only a naval dockyard; indeed, the Grey Funnel line objected sharing the southern side of the Cleddau estuary with any form of commercial operations. 

Mallaig has been mentioned; however, a plan of the station I have seen on here suggests that there was a separate platform, beyond the still-existing one, serving ferry traffic.

[Steamport Southport]

Whitehaven. I've been there today (class 37 there and back). I didn't realise that it used to be an important port for both freight and passenger. There was a board by the harbour giving the passenger boat times to Liverpool in times gone by.

 

Whitehaven has quite a history to it.

 

Including the raid by the Americans in the War Of Independence led by a John Paul Jones (not the one in Led Zeppelin)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones#Ranger_attacks_the_British

 

 

 

Jason

[Bon Accord]

Despite its location and name I think Ramsgate Harbour was a conventional terminus- though its design certainlly wasn't. Passengers may well have used it to get to shipping services but I don't think the railway was involved in that by running boat trains and I can see no sign of any harbour sidings.  

Ramsgate+Sea+front+train+turntable.jpg

1864station.jpg

I've looked at the detailed OS maps for this station

 

There were a fair number of termini near shipping services that passengers may well have gone on to use. Fort William and the McBrayne's steamer pier is a very obvious example but AFAIK trains there never ran in conjunction with the ships even though the platform 1 line carried on across the approach to the steamer pier and on to a smallish quay with a couple of sidings on it (fish?). I'm sure McBrayne timed their services with a close eye on the railway timetable but I've never heard of any direct involvement in that by the WHR or its successors. .  

 

I think Gosport, opened in 1841,  was originally a bit like Kingswear and the main station for Portsmouth - connected by a ferry though that was actually some distance from the station- until it got its own railway in 1847 with a direct line to London a bit later. Gosport was quite a grand station that was soon eclipsed though it was the extension to a private station in the Navy's Royal Clarence Victualling Yard that was used by Queen Victoria and family to travel to and from Osbourne House on the Isle of Wight. 

 

MacBrayne's steamers linked with the railway timetable for the most part because they had the Royal Mail contract for almost all the west coast islands. It's also worth remembering that from 1928 they were also 50% owned by the LMS which no doubt had an influence on the timetables of ships operating from Oban.

Integrated transport is nothing new of course.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Hoek Van Holland (Hook of Holland) fits I think. Passenger ferries dock one side of the station, the town is on the other. It's almost a terminus as there is terminating platforms there, but 2 lines continue through to the simple Hoek Van Holland Strand station a little further up the line (this is separate to the main town and looks like a modern addition to me). Google Earth is your friend for that one.

[melmerby]

What about Fort William?

 

The original station was right alongside the Loch.

Todays station is further up nearer the junction leaving the old trackbed to allow the A82 to by-pass the High Street.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82887615

Current terminus is where plots 445a & 446 are.

 

Keith

 

Even the course of the River Nevis has changed as it heads straight to the Lochy from Ram Pool rather than meander alongside the railway infrastructure!

Edited April 20, 2017 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Whitehaven has quite a history to it.

Jason

Including an extensive harbour railway system and a street running section from the Goods Station via Preston St, James St. and Market Place.

Coal mines with an incline, Coal Staithes, Shipbuilding, extensive import-export business etc. etc.

The current place is a shadow of it's former glory!

 

Keith

[Pacific231G]

What about Fort William?

 

The original station was right alongside the Loch.

Todays station is further up nearer the junction leaving the old trackbed to allow the A82 to by-pass the High Street.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82887615

Current terminus is where plots 445a & 446 are.

 

Keith

 

Even the course of the River Nevis has changed as it heads straight to the Lochy from Ram Pool rather than meander alongside the railway infrastructure!

I mentioned it in #53 but your map does show its most extensive layout very well .

 

Fort William has the distinction for me of being the first place where- after the end of steam in my neck of the woods- I actually found  the hated diesels interesting to watch.  I was staying there during a family holiday and had never known the fort in steam days but when two trains converged from Mallaig and Glasgow and restaurant car, sleepers, observation car were added or subtracted before the trains continued their journeys, the flurry of activity was fascinating. At the time I didn't realise that the station was effectively a passenger version of Inglenook Sidings * as it only had two points The releasing crossover betweeen the two "bay" platforms had gone by then but it apparently hadn't been used for year and the track that extended beyond the station to two sidings with a run round tracks at the far end of the quay was down to just a single track.

 

Had the station been built a few yards further on with the quayside line alongside rather than beyond the platforms it would have fulfilled my criteria to a tee and "La Bastide Guillaume" is an idea I'm still mulling over. 

 

*(N.B; that's not very surprising given that it was  over a decade later that Alan Wright actually built the original Inglenook layout)

Edited April 25, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Joseph_Pestell]

MacBrayne's steamers linked with the railway timetable for the most part because they had the Royal Mail contract for almost all the west coast islands. It's also worth remembering that from 1928 they were also 50% owned by the LMS which no doubt had an influence on the timetables of ships operating from Oban.

Integrated transport is nothing new of course.

The world, we know, belongs to God,

And all that it contains.

Except the Western Isles and piers,

For they are all MacBraynes'.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Joseph_Pestell

[melmerby]

I mentioned it in #53 but your map does show it very well with its most extensive layout. .

 

Fort William has the distinction for me of being the first place where- after the end of steam in my neck of the woods- I actually found  the hated diesels interesting to watch.  I was staying there during a family holiday and had never known the fort in steam days but when two trains converged from Mallaig and Glasgow and restaurant car, sleepers, observation car were added or subtracted before the trains continued their journeys, the flurry of activity was fascinating. At the time I didn't realise that the station was efffectively a passenger version of Inglenook Sidings as it only had two points.The releasing crossover betweeen the two "bay" platforms had gone by then but it apparently hadn't been used for year and the track that extended beyond the station to two sidings with a run round tracks at the far end of the quay was down to just a single track.

 

Had the station been built a few yards further on with the quayside line alongside rather than beyond the platforms it would have fulfilled my criteria to a tee and "La Bastide Guillaume" is an idea I'm still mulling over. 

A nice picture here of the perils of being by the sea during a high tide:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/fort_william/fort_william(1970skenny_macraild)old17.jpg

 

Also a train extending past the end of the station buildings & platform alongside the bus station:

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=50662

 

Keith

Edited April 21, 2017 by melmerby

[ejstubbs]

Fort William has the distinction for me of being the first place where- after the end of steam in my neck of the woods- I actually found  the hated diesels interesting to watch.

 

To be fair...OK, maybe not...I can't think of much that wouldn't be more interesting to look at than Fort William's town centre.

 

Building the bypass for the A82 was a major step forward for mankind, and is one of the few instances I can think of when truncating the railway was entirely justified.  Being forced to drive through the centre of Fort William was tantamount to a breach of people's human rights.

 

Whitehaven has quite a history to it.

 

Including the raid by the Americans in the War Of Independence led by a John Paul Jones (not the one in Led Zeppelin)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones#Ranger_attacks_the_British 

 

So, thirty guys show up in town with only a vague plan of what to do, get p!shed, manage to set fire to a boat and then leg it.  Sounds like a fairly normal Saturday night in Whitehaven!

Edited April 21, 2017 by ejstubbs

[Joseph_Pestell]

A nice picture here of the perils of being by the sea during a high tide:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/fort_william/fort_william(1970skenny_macraild)old17.jpg

 

 

Saves all that messing about with ballast.

[The Stationmaster]

Saves all that messing about with ballast.

 

... or track

[melmerby]

... or track

Yes

 

Everyone arrives by boat!

 

Keith

[ColinK]

But does the sea melt the pva so the ballast gets washed away?

[tynewydd]

Neyland and Holyhead, perhaps?

Definitely Holyhead. Originally there was a separate station at the Mail Pier reached via a long siding from the main station, but that had long gone by the 1950/60s, remembered only in the name of a siding.

 

The main station is constructed as a V with the middle being the ferry dock with one side as arrivals and the other departures. Near to the apex of the V was for passenger boats, further out on both sides were customs sheds, cattle lairage, and coaling wharves. Passengers could walk directly from trains to the dock side and onto ferries and vice versa. Cattle had a longer trip from the dockside up a ramp and over one set of sidings via a long dedicated bridge and then down again to the cattle pens for loading into wagons this "live meat" traffic persisted until the 70s. Race horses had a dedicated horse dock - while "horseless carriages" were lifted onto and off the mail boats in slings.  With the advent of containers in the late 60s, the ocean freight operations all moved over to one dockside with container cranes. There was an extra large crane installed to move heavy parts from ships for building and servicing Wylfa nuclear powerstation.

 

The station was quite centrally located in the town as it grew up and so it also served as a destination for local passengers and freight with quite large (covered because of the climate) goods sheds, coal drops, and so on and tracks to a combined gas works and power plant and also a marine superintendents yard. 

 

The tight coupling of ferries to trains all changed with the advent of RoRo ferries, which are mostly about the vehicles, but Holyhead station soldiers on in both a Marine and Town capacity.    

[brushman47544]

Has Heysham been mentioned, although the station is in the port and some way from the town centre.

[Pacific231G]

Thanks for all the interesting responses to my original query.

Ferry terminals can justify some prestigious trains in very compact locations but the catch is that in the days of "railway ferries" you might only get a flurry of activity maybe four times a day and little else the rest of the time. Adding local and non ferry-traffic to that would obviously make for more interesting operations hence my desire to find  a few to justify it.