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Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM


NFWEM57
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19 hours ago, robmanchester said:

Wayne,

When you have a moment can we have 16.2mm gauge flat bottom, 1mm flangeways, tie plates and spikes for my US HO stuff to run on. If you are not busy of course..........:)

 

Just the flex track and a few sizes of turnouts would be fine.

 

Rob

 

 

You should check with Martin Wynne. I think he requires a different BB setting from standard US RTR HO for his 16.2 mm track dimensions. 

 

256319169_wheelsend600.jpg.21f3c920b675f2ac0be695ebdd017ff1.jpg

 

US HO prototype cars do have their end wheels rather visible compared to UK ones, so I prefer HO scale wheels. The  model appearance difference can be quite dramatic.

 

Since the track gauge stays at 16.5 mm, conversion to true fine scale is rather easy for track. If you haven't already, I would suggest you take a look at the Central Valley track and turnout kit range.

 

Andy

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25 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

You should check with Martin Wynne. I think he requires a different BB setting from standard US RTR HO for his 16.2 mm track dimensions.

 

???

 

I do not require anything. 16.2mm track dimensions are not mine. As far as I know this stuff all belongs to Euclid.

 

For 00-SF the RTR wheels back-to-back is 14.3mm MIN, 14.4mm MAX.

 

Most UK RTR models comply with that out of the box. The back-to-back can be wider if the flanges are thinner than 0.8mm. I don't know anything about USA RTR models or H0.

 

Martin.

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1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

???

 

I do not require anything. 16.2mm track dimensions are not mine. As far as I know this stuff all belongs to Euclid.

 

For 00-SF the RTR wheels back-to-back is 14.3mm MIN, 14.4mm MAX.

 

Most UK RTR models comply with that out of the box. The back-to-back can be wider if the flanges are thinner than 0.8mm. I don't know anything about USA RTR models or H0.

 

Martin.

 

US HO Standard RTR BB range is 14.37 MIN - 14.60 MAX. So not compatible with those 00-16.2 mm gauge dimensions without considerable more accurate adjustment.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

US HO Standard RTR BB range is 14.37 MIN - 14.60 MAX. So not compatible with those 00-16.2 mm gauge dimensions without considerable more accurate adjustment.

 

 

Read my lips: "The back-to-back can be wider if the flanges are thinner than 0.8mm."

 

With 0.6mm flanges back-to-back on 00-SF can be 14.60mm max. i.e. 15.2mm check gauge minus 0.6mm flange. I believe some recent UK RTR models have such thin flanges.

 

We have been over this time and again for more than 15 years. Let's not start it again. Why you keep dragging USA H0 standards at 3.5mm/ft into UK 00 modelling at 4mm/ft has never been explained. The number of 00-SF modellers wishing to run USA H0 RTR models is vanishingly small. Most modellers wishing to run such a mixture stick to Standard 00.

 

Martin.

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15 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Read my lips: "The back-to-back can be wider if the flanges are thinner than 0.8mm."

 

With 0.6mm flanges back-to-back on 00-SF can be 14.60mm max. i.e. 15.2mm check gauge minus 0.6mm flange. I believe some recent UK RTR models have such thin flanges.

 

We have been over this time and again for more than 15 years. Let's not start it again. Why you keep dragging USA H0 standards at 3.5mm/ft into UK 00 modelling at 4mm/ft has never been explained. The number of 00-SF modellers wishing to run USA H0 RTR models is vanishingly small. Most modellers wishing to run such a mixture stick to Standard 00.

 

Martin.

 

 

Martin

 

Is not the clue is in the name 00-SF  not H0-SF.  Like many things when you start tinkering with specifications things go wrong. Nothing wrong with 00 gauge wheels that fall into the specification limits, anything outside this will probably cause issues.

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Robmanchester's  very recent post I quoted, would seem to assume that potential future 00-SF products automatically be completely compatible with US HO RTR.  So, since this is intended to be helpful to ALL members forum, I responded that you should be checked with first

 

Andy

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40 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

Robmanchester's  very recent post I quoted, would seem to assume that potential future 00-SF products automatically be completely compatible with US HO RTR.  So, since this is intended to be helpful to ALL members forum, I responded that you should be checked with first

 

Rob from Manchester was speaking tongue-in-cheek to tease Wayne. :) You might have guessed that from the number of "funnies" in the reactions.

 

I know the late Gordon S used to run some of his H0 models on his UK 00-SF layout just for the fun of it occasionally. With no problems as far as I know.

 

Martin.

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I have Athearn Genesis, Rapido, Intermountain, Bowser, Walthers Proto and Trix North American models running on my English layout sometimes. The scenic side is mostly my hand built OO-SF track with as much of Wayne’s that is available so far, with Peco and Fasttracks jig made turnouts in the fiddle yard. No problem. I occasionally have to ease out the back to backs on some Hornby models.

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In other news I have been building an N gauge double slip which was dispatched by the Boss last week! Great fun and a joy to assemble. I think the 4mm version of the points must just about build themselves.

 

Cheers Wayne for all work and midnight oil expended.

 

Robert  

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5 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

Oh Dear,

 

Not having visited RM WEB for some years previously, I didn't know that Gordon S had died. My sincere condolences.

 

Andy

 

Very sad event, Gordon rarely mentioned his illness, I think many of us were truly shocked and saddened by his death. A true gent

 

Brings things like this into perspective.

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How goes the cross over Wayne?

 

On a slightly related subject, turnouts, has anybody seen the turnout motor design that James over at Bexhill West has developed, absolutely brilliant idea.  Watch the two videos, S2 E10 and S2 E11 at the link https://www.youtube.com/c/BexhillWest/videos.

 

I am waiting to get my hands on some..!

 

Patrick

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44 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

How goes the cross over Wayne?

 

On a slightly related subject, turnouts, has anybody seen the design that James over at Bexhill West has developed, absolutely brilliant idea.  Watch the two videos, S2 E10 and S2 E11 at the link https://www.youtube.com/c/BexhillWest/videos.

 

I am waiting to get my hands on some..!

 

Patrick

 

I wonder who built his first turnout !!

 

What a great video he makes track building so simple

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1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

I wonder who built his first turnout !!

 

What a great video he makes track building so simple

It was you John, and how wonderful it is too, although I’m nervous to lay it in case I spoil it.  
I’m still summoning the courage to attempt the 3 way turnout. Might you have a build slot available in the near future?

 

Best,

James

 

 

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12 minutes ago, makeitminiature said:

It was you John, and how wonderful it is too, although I’m nervous to lay it in case I spoil it.  
I’m still summoning the courage to attempt the 3 way turnout. Might you have a build slot available in the near future?

 

Best,

James

 

 

 

 

James I think you are overtaking me, the 3 way would be fine if you need it. I don't know if you have altered the plan but I may still have the one you sent me

 

I do like the turnout servo holder it should be just the job for Wayne's turnouts 

 

 

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21 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

How goes the cross over Wayne?

 

On a slightly related subject, turnouts, has anybody seen the turnout motor design that James over at Bexhill West has developed, absolutely brilliant idea.  Watch the two videos, S2 E10 and S2 E11 at the link https://www.youtube.com/c/BexhillWest/videos.

 

I am waiting to get my hands on some..!

 

Patrick

 

Fantastic.

 

Dave

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On 10/02/2022 at 11:37, Wayne Kinney said:

I love reading you two bickering...LOL :D

 

Then you should really enjoy reading

 

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.models.railroad/c/fc8hjnn2o-w/m/eh_F3iHRFzgJ

 

It's way before my time, so nothing to do with me, but the issues are the same.  The reference to 16.2 mm first appears around Mar 15, 2006, 6:02:56 PM

 

There are several similar threads on uk.rec.models.rail. Just fewer Australians. :)

 

Cheers, Andy

 

 

 

 

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With the double slip, could you arrange the tiebars prototypically, i.e. 2 tiebars each end, working independently?

 

For those motorising the double slips, omega loops would make sure that the closure rails are tight to the stock rails.

 

Regards

 

Ian

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2 minutes ago, Ian Smeeton said:

With the double slip, could you arrange the tiebars prototypically, i.e. 2 tiebars each end, working independently?

Hi,

 

No I am using one tie bar each end, each operating 4 blades...

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56 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi,

 

No I am using one tie bar each end, each operating 4 blades...

 

I find the resistance of 4 blades is far more than twice the force used by 2 switch blades, it is especially noticeable as the switch blades are much shorter than most turnouts, with a single slip it does not seem to make as much difference. My solution is to make all 4 blades hinged  

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5 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

Hope everyone is doing well!

 

The British Finescale webstore will be reopening tomorrow (1st) so I can start taking orders of the 4mm kits again.

 

I've used most of February to catch up with N Gauge, 2FS and 3mm stuff.

 

I've also been looking into the design and I have made a change on the switch blades. After much thought into this, I have decided to change the design so that the kit builder solders the switch blades onto the tie bar pins themselves 'in situ'. I did propose this method back in October when I first announced the change to 'All Rail' design, but didn't actually change.

 

A few things have developed since then, and there are 2 main reasons why I am changing this. Firstly, it does take much of my time up soldering 100's of switch blades. But more importantly, I am now testing the double slip kit and it's not working out accurately enough.

 

The issue is, there are too many errors introduced with soldering switch blades to chair plates in a jig and then hoping that all 4 blades on the double slip will all line up where they should. It results in 1 blade being aligned but a gap still on the other, for example.

 

Changing to soldering 'in situ' completely solves this, as any inaccuracies are taken up when soldering.

 

I know many of you won't welcome the change, but I didn't make the decision lightly, believe me. Having said that, the process is actually very easy indeed! It's easier than soldering electrical feeds to the rail, in my honest opinion. It also looks better visually.

 

I have updated the instructions, so below is an extract of these showing the process of installing the switch blades and soldering them to the tie bar pins:

 

Tie Bar Assembly

The kit contains a small bag that includes the main Tie Bar, 2 metal ‘headed’ pins and a Switch Blade ‘Spacer’. The ‘Spacer’ is used to maintain the correct gap between Switch Blade and Stock Rail when soldering the Switch Blades to the pins.

DSC06294.JPG.cc1c18b8443fd7cdf62da5c753555668.JPGDSC06295.JPG.5cf90f0a3fdc02c4699837e54c9d484c.JPG

 

The 2 metal pins are inserted through the pre drilled 0.4mm holes in the tie base.

DSC06296.JPG.fd3800daec53de1a0e1bf90a57f5b0e6.JPGDSC06297.JPG.5979bbdbab22ebaff1d422d10e787818.JPG

Make sure that the headed 2 pins are pushed all the way through until the heads of the pins are flush with the bottom of the tie bar. Then bend both pins by 90 degrees so that they face forward as shown above.

 

DSC06298.JPG.9f881e17d05d83a1733c62cebcafc609.JPGDSC06299.JPG.4ea0e6826ff3c2af477146b32a0562fe.JPG

The pins can then be cut short leaving about 2 – 3mm of length as shown above.

 

 

Fitting Tie Bar and Stock Rails

The assembled Tie Bar can now be placed on the Turnout Base between the last 2 Slide Chairs. It will locate into the slots as shown in the picture below:

DSC06300.JPG.8592e1169fed05d6c2bff83e683f5080.JPG

Once the Tie Bar is in place, both Stock Rails can then be inserted from either end of the turnout. Care must be taken so each Stock Rail slides over the Tie Bar. The Tie Bar must be free to slide under the Stock Rails when operating the Switch Blades.

DSC06301.JPG.825933600c2cb649113a754bff61a2b0.JPGDSC06302.JPG.5f6b672633b7484d34ac591dc0b571a8.JPG

Fitting Switch Blades

The Switch Blades are packaged with a plastic protector fitted to the end to prevent damage to the fine edges at each tip. Carefully slide each Switch Blade out of the protective clip.

 

Each Switch Blade can be offered-up to the base and cut to length. When the tip of the Switch Blade is lined up over the last Slide Chair, there needs to be an ‘isolating gap’ between the Switch Blade Rail and the Closure Rail. Once cut to size and the rail end filed and chamfered, each Switch Blade can be slid into the chairs and into place.

DSC06303.JPG.04442760092d9a2f66657310bd2193f7.JPGDSC06304.JPG.aeea5c57b9519cd106142503bfff51f4.JPG

 

Soldering Switch Blades to Tie Bar Pins

A small Switch Blade ‘Spacer’ is provided. This ‘Spacer’ is used to maintain the correct gap between Switch Blade and Stock Rail when soldering the Switch Blades to the pins. It has a slot in the middle which clips onto the Stock Rail. One end is raised to give clearance for the Slide Chair (the ‘Spacer’ pictured is for EM/00-SF).

DSC06305.JPG.7ac5474efe972247e167e1b695250389.JPG

 

The Spacer can be clipped onto one stock rail while its adjacent Switch Blade is held open.

DSC06306.JPG.b5db4de140b6e2a6d726e353b6665c25.JPG

Once in position, the Spacer holds the Switch Blade open at the correct gap. The other Switch Blade remains against its Stock Rail.

DSC06307.JPG.0da85f832078d19d55c39e73eeb98401.JPG

Soldering is done while the Switch Blade sits flush against the Stock Rail as this ensures best alignment. If you notice a gap between Switch Blade and Stock Rail, this can be taken up by squeezing them together at the top of the rail head with a small pair of tweezers, whilst soldering.

 

A small amount of Soldering Flux can then be applied to the Pin and Switch Blade. With a small amount of solder applied to the tip of the soldering iron, touch the pin with the tip of the iron and then up against the Switch Blade. The solder will flow with the help of the flux and a soldered joint with be created.

DSC06308.JPG.1d297ed5b65e6bd620f79b838ee6289f.JPGDSC06309.JPG.56633d5ed55c68f36a9a7d913fab80dd.JPG

 

NOTE: Please only use a small amount of solder, otherwise there is a risk of solder flowing under the Switch Blade and bonding the Switch Blade to the Stock Rail.

 

The same can then be repeated for the other Switch Blade. Move the ‘Spacer’ to the other Stock Rail which will hold the Switch Blade you just soldered open at the correct gap.

 

DSC06310.JPG.ab21bd1300cf42fcda5b2f10829f5c2c.JPGDSC06311.JPG.70b5d459a94e595a38d5df43bddf4308.JPG

DSC06312.JPG.d3f33e7ac150e5fc41d0f3cbcdd7f06c.JPG

 

 

I feel the above method is clean and tidy and results in a better looking and more accurate turnout!

P.S - Go easy on me, guys! ;)

 

 

Hi Wayne, that seems sensible and further why not solder on the spacer side so there’s no risk of soldering to the stock rail?
I’ve done this method with pins on pcb points for years with a simple card spacer. 

 

Just solder on this side

1CA69F2F-D83A-40FE-85EB-DC6257A4B77B.jpeg.2969165db9fa6b7408641050437b2a93.jpeg

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  • martin_wynne changed the title to Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM

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