Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[Dominion]

Excellent, thank you Wayne. Number 7 single slips please would be my vote for next. 

[KeithHC]

49 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Oh lordy!!!

Well done that man.

Now why would anyone want to model in anything other than EM?

 

Mike.

Pulled the pin and waiting for the bang!

I have just replaced the pin and agree…….. it would be nice to see more rtr manufacturers having EM options the same as Sutton works we live in hope one day. However I am working on being able to build my first layout in EM. I only have 3 locos and a couple of coaches and a couple parkside kits. As had been said before Wayne’s products are a game changer.

 

Patrick keep up the good work I am keeping an eye on your thread.

 

Keith

Edited March 13, 2022 by KeithHC
Grammar correction

[Asterix2012]

A5 sounds good.

 

What about a 3 way with interlaced sleepers?

[Harlequin]

52 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Oh lordy!!!

Well done that man.

Now why would anyone want to model in anything other than EM?

 

Mike.

Pulled the pin and waiting for the bang!

 

I bet a lot of us who aspire to levels of modelling above the trainset would love to jump to EM if we had both easy to lay track and ready to run rolling stock.

 

(Having RTR stock is not just about people's lack of willingness or ability to tinker with their models, it's also about time pressure, priorities, and security of buying something that should "just work", which you can send back if it doesn't!)

 

Wayne is eating away at one side of the equation but what about the other side? It needs someone, one of the new radical disruptive manufacturers, to take a risk - to test the market and see if "high quality" modelling could be flipped into a new state where EM is the RTR standard.

 

That would be a great differentiator between the trainset and the proper layout, between the toys and the models, between the toy makers and the quality model makers.

 

[Chuffer Davies]

3 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

What formations would you like to see next? I believe an A5 & B7 crossover would be sensible, but I'm looking for input! Maybe a single slip?

 

Hi Wayne,

Quite outstanding!   I’m sure this will encourage previously hesitant modellers to make the jump to EM.  
In my opinion the single slip is the primary candidate for your next project.  These were commonly used in the entrance to goods yards to avoid installing facing points.  A cross over would also be good but modellers can already make an attempt at one by careful combination of two points. 
Later it might be worth considering a similar range to compliment the EMGS B6 points if you are so inspired to do so.  
Enjoy your holiday when it arrives.

Regards,

Frank

[Wayne Kinney]

Thanks SO MUCH guys for your lovely comments and input on next kits! Certainly makes my decision making easier.

 

I believe after the diamonds, double slips & A5 turnouts in all 3 gauges this month, the next kit will be the single slip followed by the 1in7 standard crossover.

I can then look at other angles (1in6, 1in8, 1in10).

 

It's all coming together thanks to everyone's input over the years! THANKS!

[NFWEM57]

27 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

(Having RTR stock is not just about people's lack of willingness or ability to tinker with their models, it's also about time pressure, priorities, and security of buying something that should "just work", which you can send back if it doesn't!)

Agree.  But all too often we only see the very complicated conversions.  I wanted to model in EM because I disliked the HO track offerings, particularly the narrowness of the track but a little over 2 years ago when I returned to the scene after a very very long break there was not a lot on offer.   I am happy if I can simply regauge the RTR wheels on an otherwise acceptable model or source drop in replacements.   Most diesels I own have been modified with drop in wheel sets.   Steam is another issue.  But look at the link, 

Here I modified a Bachmann 5MT using Alan Gibson wheels for tender and pony truck and due to the need to get something on line for Wayne, kept the RTR wheels and simply eased them out.  There is no such thing as a free dinner and currently there will need to be a little bit of time and effort, risk taking and, critically, the building up of skill of hand.  However, I want to share how I do the conversions so that others can see how it can be  done,  not for me to showcase. 

 

Patrick

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi Guys,

 

OK, I wasn't going to post this, but his last line in this email seems to give me permission ..LOL

I've never received an email from Andy Reichert before until my reply to his unbelievably arrogant post in this thread, yesterday. I say unbelievable until I got this email from him today:

 

"Wayne,

 

Attempted Order #3680, December 13, 2011 . I can't remember now if I caught that one in time.

 

Attempted Order #7434, March 28, 2020

 

Merely an immediate apology posted on the same RM Web topic is appropriate and will end any concern on my part.  Note I didn't make any reference to the timing of your N turnouts and 00 turnouts development cycles.

 

Had you not intervened unasked in my reply to Martin Wynne, it would have become obvious that I was pointing out that his continual shutting out of the technology of flange support at common crossing vees as a much simpler alternative to gauge narrowing) was not universally accepted.

 

If I don't see your apology in the next day or so, I'll assume you want me to post the corrected order details myself.

 

Andy"

 

Can you believe it? How jealous and desperate is he  I don't understand it when his market is US!

 

Seems he is bummed for getting banned from this topic. It's a shame because he does make some good products. It's just the attitude  Makes me sad.

 

I won't post about this anymore even if he emails me again. I understand the moderators POV on this petty arguing and I should be more professional but this email both shocked and amused me!

 

OK, back on track, I'll get back to work now in CAD.. 

 

[Chuffer Davies]

45 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Wayne is eating away at one side of the equation but what about the other side? It needs someone, one of the new radical disruptive manufacturers, to take a risk - to test the market and see if "high quality" modelling could be flipped into a new state where EM is the RTR standard.

 

That would be a great differentiator between the trainset and the proper layout, between the toys and the models, between the toy makers and the quality model makers.

 

In an ideal world what you suggest would be great but I doubt it could ever be made to work commercially.  There are likely only a few hundred active EM modellers and I can’t see this population rising exponentially despite Wayne’s excellent track work.  

What I do think might be practical, and of very little, if any, additional development cost for commercial suppliers, would be if they ensured that  there models were at least EM/P4 ready. By that I mean things like splashers having sufficient clearance to allow EM/P4 wheel sets to be dropped in, or wagon brake shoes spaced out to EM/P4 alignments.
If the manufacturers can meet the societies half way then the societies might then be willing to sort out replacement wheel sets, etc. to complete the job.   
Regards,

Frank

[NFWEM57]

6 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Had you not intervened unasked in my reply to Martin Wynne,

Sorry, I thought it was a forum, not question time where you to wait in the audience to be asked to ask a safe previously vetted question. 

 

My word, the attitude of some of these ex colonials...!

 

Patrick

[H2O]

A request for what next, single slip. None of the present pre built offerings I found suit (me), perhaps there are others?  They are either too tight a radius (PECO) or HO and European sleeper size and spacing (e.g. Tillig), and that one is also an outside slip(?). Home built doesn't work for me but easy build kits will probably be ok.

Sorry if I've missed it but what is the actual radius of the double slip please, I assume the single slip will be similar geometry.

[martin_wynne]

Hi Wayne,

 

As my name is mentioned there, perhaps I can reply.

 

"in my reply to Martin Wynne, it would have become obvious that I was pointing out that his continual shutting out of the technology of flange support at common crossing vees as a much simpler alternative to gauge narrowing) was not universally accepted."

 

Because it doesn't work and is not prototypical for standard-gauge running lines. Flange support through crossings works only where all wheel flanges are the same depth. Which is clearly not the case with UK kit wheels and RTR wheels. Also, since the flangeway filling is usually non-metallic, supporting the wheel on the flange lifts it fractionally off the rail, interrupting electrical pick-up.

 

However, my real gripe there is with the term "gauge-narrowing". The object of the exercise in 00-SF is not to narrow the track gauge. That just comes about as a result of the two main objectives, which are:

 

1. maintain the check gauge the same as Standard 00 (15.2mm), and

 

2. reduce the flangeway gap as far as is practicable to support the narrower kit wheels (1.0mm).

 

In the process, the track gauge ends up slightly less than Standard 00, but that is not the object of the exercise.

 

I have explained all this to Andy Reichert time and time again, but since he refuses to listen and is determined to foist USA thinking on UK modellers using a different scale, I think I should just stop

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Chuffer Davies said:

In an ideal world what you suggest would be great but I doubt it could ever be made to work commercially.  There are likely only a few hundred active EM modellers and I can’t see this population rising exponentially despite Wayne’s excellent track work.  

What I do think might be practical, and of very little, if any, additional development cost for commercial suppliers, would be if they ensured that  there models were at least EM/P4 ready. By that I mean things like splashers having sufficient clearance to allow EM/P4 wheel sets to be dropped in, or wagon brake shoes spaced out to EM/P4 alignments.
If the manufacturers can meet the societies half way then the societies might then be willing to sort out replacement wheel sets, etc. to complete the job.   
Regards,

Frank

 

That would be the sensible way to do it, of course.

 

If the rolling stock manufacturers could solve the splasher, brake shoes and similar clearance issues that would be a huge step forward - and given the ingenuity we've seen recently that really ought to be possible!

 

(BTW: I note that the 5MT above doesn't have splashers and I think that was a deliberate design decision by BR to simplify the design of the loco. Are the brake shoes correctly positioned? It's hard to see in the video.)

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Harlequin

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

 

I bet a lot of us who aspire to levels of modelling above the trainset would love to jump to EM if we had both easy to lay track and ready to run rolling stock.

 

(Having RTR stock is not just about people's lack of willingness or ability to tinker with their models, it's also about time pressure, priorities, and security of buying something that should "just work", which you can send back if it doesn't!)

 

Wayne is eating away at one side of the equation but what about the other side? It needs someone, one of the new radical disruptive manufacturers, to take a risk - to test the market and see if "high quality" modelling could be flipped into a new state where EM is the RTR standard.

 

That would be a great differentiator between the trainset and the proper layout, between the toys and the models, between the toy makers and the quality model makers.

 

 

Phil

 

Quite a lot of rolling stock is just a change of wheelsets, for some locos I believe the EMGS does drop in wheelsets.

 

Most folk are time poor, certainly these kits are excellent ,easy and quick to build.

 

The stumbling block in my mind are loco wheelsets, a quick and cheap conversion is to buy a simple kit built 00 gauge loco with Romford/Markit wheels, all you need are some Markit EM gauge axles and a packet of brass axle washers, a conversion costing under £10. I have done this with several K's & Wills kit built locos. I now prefer to fit etched brass chassis, but this takes a bit more skill and costs a little more

[Dominion]

I am attempting this scissors cross over.  The diamond in the middle will be C&L rail with Exactoscale chairs and timbers.  I have already soldered up the common crossings.

The 2 turnouts at the bottom will be Wayne's products. 

The 2 double slips at the top will also be Wayne's products, at least that is the plan.

I will Use Wayne's provided rail for in his track bases, except for a chair or two of overlap with the central diamond crossing.  The C&L rail is slightly loose in Wayne's chairs but I think it will work OK.

I don't know whether to think of it as a cut and shut or a Frankenstein. I will report back once I have made more progress, wish me luck !

 

[NFWEM57]

On 13/03/2022 at 19:40, Harlequin said:

 

That would be the sensible way to do it, of course.

 

If the rolling stock manufacturers could solve the splasher, brake shoes and similar clearance issues that would be a huge step forward - and given the ingenuity we've seen recently that really ought to be possible!

 

(BTW: I note that the 5MT above doesn't have splashers and I think that was a deliberate design decision by BR to simplify the design of the loco. Are the brake shows correctly positioned? It's hard to see in the video.)

 

Hi,

 

No, it was a quick and dirty conversion to get steam wheels running through Wayne's prototype EM B7.   So no brakes and no axles ends showing..!   By the way, it was my first ever steam conversion, undertaken in a hurry and innovating (long story) and it awaits my attention once all my diesels have been converted.  (Long story cut short - I opened it up to find shoulder axles on the drivers and I did not have any EM ones to hand so I innovated - eased the wheels out.)

 

Confession - Four decades ago I undertook a 3 year electronics and telecommunications apprenticeship with a well know shipping firm.  To my great surprise, the first 9 months were spent in a workshop of which 6 months was metal working including 4 weeks of lathe work. The aim was to built the 'pin vice', as they called it, with its 1 inch by 3 inch column to build up 'skill of hand'.  The vice central column had to be 1 inch square by 3 inches tall accurate to 0.001 inches and with 90 degree angles as measured with a  vernier protractor.  The mild steel central pillar was made with nothing more a 10 bastard file.

 

 

 

Having completed the central pillar we then had to make the fixed and moving jaws as well as the open fit at the top of the pillar and the closed fit in the base with a brass insert, again with a 10 inch bastard file.  The open fit at the top had to fit both ways with no more than a total of 4 thou gasp measure using feeler gauges.  The brass closed fit at the bottom had to fit all 8 ways with no more than a total of 10 thou measured using feeler gauges.  The central screw was made on a lathe.  I  cursed every day wondering why I, an electronics apprentice, had to do all this metal bashing.

 

   

    

 

It sat in my garage for 40 years until I found a use for it for model railway.  I never had to use the metalworking skill of hand for my job, but others did. 

 

Do you require this level of skill of hand for model railway - absolutely not.  What you need is the confidence and willingness to give it a go.  You will make mistakes, I still do, but that is how we learn.  If you are not making mistakes, you are not innovating enough...!

 

As for time, I have a full time job, I am the captain of a sporting club, I do the occasional wedding shoot and a bit of landscape photography and I have built a 36 hour clock to fit it all in.  Activity fills the time allowed to deliver it.  Want a job done quickly, give it to a busy person. 

 

So, start with something simple, build your confidence up and enjoy the hobby.  There is plenty of advice available on RMWeb and many willing to share their experience. 

 

Patrick

Edited April 1, 2022 by NFWEM57
typo

[Chuffer Davies]

38 minutes ago, hayfield said:a quick and cheap conversion is to buy a simple kit built 00 gauge loco with Romford/Markit wheels, all you need are some Markit EM gauge axles and a packet of brass axle washers, a conversion costing under £10. 

A word of caution with regards Markit wheels and clearances behind slidebars.  Markit wheels are slightly thicker than other plastic centred wheel sets, and their crank pin nuts are not recessed. As a result it is more than likely that in converting a OO loco with Markit wheels to EM will result in the crank pin hitting the slide bars.  There are various ways round this none of which are straight forward so best avoid models with slide bars until you get some experience of conversions under your belt.

Still well worth making the change though.

Frank

[Jack P]

I like the idea of a 3 way turnout with interlaced sleepers!

 

Also, Don't waste any more time with the mouth breather who keeps harassing you.

His threat below, suggesting that he will further escalate this by posting something, can only end badly for him.

1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said:

If I don't see your apology in the next day or so, I'll assume you want me to post the corrected order details myself.

 

Really looking forward to the release of the EM diamond crossing!

[Wayne Kinney]

18 minutes ago, Jack P said:

I like the idea of a 3 way turnout with interlaced sleepers!

 

Also, Don't waste any more time with the mouth breather who keeps harassing you.

His threat below, suggesting that he will further escalate this by posting something, can only end badly for him.

 

Really looking forward to the release of the EM diamond crossing!

 

Thanks, Jack!

 

I'll look into the 3 way after previously said kits. I've already made one in N Gauge

[PMP]

In terms of range development, I’d like to see catch/trap points. Such a common feature of real permanent way, I think they’d be a valuable addition to the range.

[BWsTrains]

I'm waiting patiently for the OO Single Slip,

 

Colin

[Ben Alder]

Interlaced points were a feature of the HR, and,AFAIK, some other companies as well. Still some around today so could have an application for most eras.

 

[wilks]

9 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

OK, I promised some eye candy to get this topic back on track. Below are some pictures of the EM Gauge 1in7 Diamond and 1in7 Double Slip kits:

 

 

These should both be released this week, with 00 Gauge and 00-SF versions to follow the following week.

 

Price of the Diamond kit is the same as a standard turnout at £22.99, the Double Slip kit is £39.

 

I'm also wanting to get an A5 standard turnout kit released in all 3 gauges by the end of the month. I go on holiday beginning of April so want all this done before I leave

 

What formations would you like to see next? I believe an A5 & B7 crossover would be sensible, but I'm looking for input! Maybe a single slip?

 

Brilliant - now that the double slip is available I will get on and order a double slip and a number of turnouts. 

[Derekstuart]

12 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

In an ideal world what you suggest would be great but I doubt it could ever be made to work commercially.  There are likely only a few hundred active EM modellers and I can’t see this population rising exponentially despite Wayne’s excellent track work.  

 

With all respect, if you were born several decades earlier you might well have made the same comment about electric motors in model trains. "No one, lad, is ever going to give up their clockwork trains for those new fangled motor things. There can't be more than a dozen using motors now- a waste of time."

(the same comparison can be used for any new technology)

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Derekstuart said:

 

With all respect, if you were born several decades earlier you might well have made the same comment about electric motors in model trains. "No one, lad, is ever going to give up their clockwork trains for those new fangled motor things. There can't be more than a dozen using motors now- a waste of time."

(the same comparison can be used for any new technology)

 

Look in the magazines of the 40's and 50's and see the furore created by 2 rail, never work, unnecessary etc.

 

Mike.