Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[Chuffer Davies]

Kitchen foil! It is my answer to any situation where I want to prevent 2 pieces of touching metal from becoming soldered together.  In particular when creating the hinged join in coupling rods.   It is very thin and being made of aluminium won’t take lead solder.  If I was about to solder the pin to a blade I would definitely place a thin strip of aluminium between and under the stock rail and the blade.

Frank

[Wayne Kinney]

47 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Hi Wayne, that seems sensible and further why not solder on the spacer side so there’s no risk of soldering to the stock rail?
I’ve done this method with pins on pcb points for years with a simple card spacer. 

 

Just solder on this side

Hi Paul,

 

A very valid question and I am glad someone asked it!

 

It seems sensible to solder the switch blade that is NOT in contact with the stock rail, as Paul suggest, as not to risk bonding the switch blade to the stock rail. Everything else being equal, this is the method I would have put forward.

 

There is, however, more to it than that...mostly involving accuracy. Soldering the switch blade whilst in contact with the stock rail removes many small errors that build up resulting from twisted rail from wire drawing production or CNC machining tolerances milling the switch blades.

 

Soldering the switch blade whilst sitting flush against the stock rail overcomes previous manufacturing tolerances, especially if the top of the blade is squeezed tight to the stock rail with a pair of tweezers whilst soldering the joint!

 

If soldered the opposite way, as Paul suggests (which does initially make sense!), you may find that the switch blade doesn't sit nicely flush with the stock rail, but with a gap at the top of the rail head.

 

So to summarise, the method I went for results in the most accuratly set switch blade, with perfect gap on one blade, and perfectly flush against the stock rail on the other....

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Wayne Kinney

[Wayne Kinney]

9 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Kitchen foil! It is my answer to any situation where I want to prevent 2 pieces of touching metal from becoming soldered together.  In particular when creating the hinged join in coupling rods.   It is very thin and being made of aluminium won’t take lead solder.  If I was about to solder the pin to a blade I would definitely place a thin strip of aluminium between and under the stock rail and the blade.

Frank

Yes Yes Yes! It's so true and another great method.

 

I was in two minds as to put extra steps in the instructions, one being tin foil the other a silicone grease barrier...

 

Both work great, but I'm also thinking that it's not going to be an issue anyway...

[Dominion]

I solder the blade pinching the top against the stock rail just as Wayne describes (when I am building from components). I use a very thin piece of paper between the 2 rails. That works well too. I normally use my finger nail too, instead of tweezers. It ensures I do it quickly !

Looking forward to the new releases, Wayne. Thank you for developing them. Tom

[wilks]

9 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

Hope everyone is doing well!

 

The British Finescale webstore will be reopening tomorrow (1st) so I can start taking orders of the 4mm kits again.

 

I've used most of February to catch up with N Gauge, 2FS and 3mm stuff.

 

I've also been looking into the design and I have made a change on the switch blades. After much thought into this, I have decided to change the design so that the kit builder solders the switch blades onto the tie bar pins themselves 'in situ'. I did propose this method back in October when I first announced the change to 'All Rail' design, but didn't actually change.

 

A few things have developed since then, and there are 2 main reasons why I am changing this. Firstly, it does take much of my time up soldering 100's of switch blades. But more importantly, I am now testing the double slip kit and it's not working out accurately enough.

 

The issue is, there are too many errors introduced with soldering switch blades to chair plates in a jig and then hoping that all 4 blades on the double slip will all line up where they should. It results in 1 blade being aligned but a gap still on the other, for example.

 

Changing to soldering 'in situ' completely solves this, as any inaccuracies are taken up when soldering.

 

I know many of you won't welcome the change, but I didn't make the decision lightly, believe me. Having said that, the process is actually very easy indeed! It's easier than soldering electrical feeds to the rail, in my honest opinion. It also looks better visually.

 

I have updated the instructions, so below is an extract of these showing the process of installing the switch blades and soldering them to the tie bar pins:

 

Tie Bar Assembly

The kit contains a small bag that includes the main Tie Bar, 2 metal ‘headed’ pins and a Switch Blade ‘Spacer’. The ‘Spacer’ is used to maintain the correct gap between Switch Blade and Stock Rail when soldering the Switch Blades to the pins.

 

The 2 metal pins are inserted through the pre drilled 0.4mm holes in the tie base.

Make sure that the headed 2 pins are pushed all the way through until the heads of the pins are flush with the bottom of the tie bar. Then bend both pins by 90 degrees so that they face forward as shown above.

 

The pins can then be cut short leaving about 2 – 3mm of length as shown above.

 

 

Fitting Tie Bar and Stock Rails

The assembled Tie Bar can now be placed on the Turnout Base between the last 2 Slide Chairs. It will locate into the slots as shown in the picture below:

Once the Tie Bar is in place, both Stock Rails can then be inserted from either end of the turnout. Care must be taken so each Stock Rail slides over the Tie Bar. The Tie Bar must be free to slide under the Stock Rails when operating the Switch Blades.

Fitting Switch Blades

The Switch Blades are packaged with a plastic protector fitted to the end to prevent damage to the fine edges at each tip. Carefully slide each Switch Blade out of the protective clip.

 

Each Switch Blade can be offered-up to the base and cut to length. When the tip of the Switch Blade is lined up over the last Slide Chair, there needs to be an ‘isolating gap’ between the Switch Blade Rail and the Closure Rail. Once cut to size and the rail end filed and chamfered, each Switch Blade can be slid into the chairs and into place.

 

Soldering Switch Blades to Tie Bar Pins

A small Switch Blade ‘Spacer’ is provided. This ‘Spacer’ is used to maintain the correct gap between Switch Blade and Stock Rail when soldering the Switch Blades to the pins. It has a slot in the middle which clips onto the Stock Rail. One end is raised to give clearance for the Slide Chair (the ‘Spacer’ pictured is for EM/00-SF).

 

The Spacer can be clipped onto one stock rail while its adjacent Switch Blade is held open.

Once in position, the Spacer holds the Switch Blade open at the correct gap. The other Switch Blade remains against its Stock Rail.

Soldering is done while the Switch Blade sits flush against the Stock Rail as this ensures best alignment. If you notice a gap between Switch Blade and Stock Rail, this can be taken up by squeezing them together at the top of the rail head with a small pair of tweezers, whilst soldering.

 

A small amount of Soldering Flux can then be applied to the Pin and Switch Blade. With a small amount of solder applied to the tip of the soldering iron, touch the pin with the tip of the iron and then up against the Switch Blade. The solder will flow with the help of the flux and a soldered joint with be created.

 

NOTE: Please only use a small amount of solder, otherwise there is a risk of solder flowing under the Switch Blade and bonding the Switch Blade to the Stock Rail.

 

The same can then be repeated for the other Switch Blade. Move the ‘Spacer’ to the other Stock Rail which will hold the Switch Blade you just soldered open at the correct gap.

 

 

 

I feel the above method is clean and tidy and results in a better looking and more accurate turnout!

P.S - Go easy on me, guys! 

 

 

The proposal to for the builder to solder the blades to improve accuracy is sound. I used a similar arrangement on OO turnouts I built for a club layout, using N gauge copper clad sleeper strip for tie bars and 0.55mm lace pins. 

 

To avoid soldering the blade to the stock rail I would cut a thin strip of rizla paper, feed it under the stock rail over the top of the tie bar and trap the end up between the stock rail and the blade.  Seem to work fine and closure was not an issue.

 

Looking forward to the EM Gauge double slip.

[NFWEM57]

17 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Yes Yes Yes! It's so true and another great method.

 

I was in two minds as to put extra steps in the instructions, one being tin foil the other a silicone grease barrier...

 

Both work great, but I'm also thinking that it's not going to be an issue anyway...

This innovation just keeps getting better and better...!

[BSW01]

When soldering joints on coupling rods and valve gear, I place a thin piece of paper soaked in oil between the 2 items I don't want to get soldered together, it works every time. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by BSW01

[PaulRhB]

17 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Yes Yes Yes! It's so true and another great method.

 

I was in two minds as to put extra steps in the instructions, one being tin foil the other a silicone grease barrier...

 

Both work great, but I'm also thinking that it's not going to be an issue anyway...

It’s interesting to hear the reasoning and makes perfect sense. On the ones I’ve done the switch rail was already set in position at the crossing end so couldn’t move out of position anyway so the tolerance was set in a different way. I like the foil method though, never thought of that and I prefer it to the oil one for cleanliness even though that smells nice  

[NFWEM57]

On 01/03/2022 at 13:26, PaulRhB said:

even though that smells nice

What oil are you using...!!!!!!!

[PaulRhB]

26 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

What oil are you using...!!!!!!!

Just 3in1 but it reminds me of driving steam engines with that warm oil smell.  

[Andy Reichert]

I wondered why the little spacer said "EM/00-SF". Presumably there is an alternate version that is for plain "00" with a slightly wider opening to safely accommodate/clear the fatter wheel flanges of RTR wheels?

 

If so, wouldn't "00" gapping be more appropriate if allowing for using RTR wheels on 16.2 mm gauge?

 

Andy 

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Andy Reichert said:

I wondered why the little spacer said "EM/00-SF". Presumably there is an alternate version that is for plain "00" with a slightly wider opening to safely accommodate/clear the fatter wheel flanges of RTR wheels?

 

If so, wouldn't "00" gapping be more appropriate if allowing for using RTR wheels on 16.2 mm gauge?

 

Andy 

 

Hi Andy,

 

Prototype switch opening: 4.25 inches = 1.42mm at 4mm/ft scale.

 

EM and 00-SF switch opening = 1.75 mm min (a 20p coin can be used as a spacer).

 

Standard 00 switch opening = 2.0mm min (a 10p coin can be used as a spacer).

 

All those settings allow for RTR wheels, at the minimum back-to-back in each case.  (EM=16.3mm,  00-SF=14.3mm,  Standard 00: DOGA-I=14.2mm, 00-BF=14.0mm)

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited March 3, 2022 by martin_wynne

[bradfordbuffer]

10 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Andy,

 

Prototype switch opening: 4.25 inches = 1.42mm at 4mm/ft scale.

 

EM and 00-SF switch opening = 1.75 mm min (a 20p coin can be used as a spacer).

 

Standard 00 switch opening = 2.0mm min (a 10p coin can be used as a spacer).

 

All those settings allow for RTR wheels, at the minimum back-to-back in each case.  (EM=16.3mm,  00-SF=14.3mm,  Standard 00: DOGA-I=14.2mm, 00-BF=14.0mm)

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Track spacers with queen's head on....cool

 

Didn't some on in a railway modeler article use some 2p coins as balance weights for under baseboard signal mechanism but got into trouble for drilling coin! Mid eighties I think or was it just a urban tall story? 

[The Evil Bus Driver]

1 hour ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Track spacers with queen's head on....cool

 

Didn't some on in a railway modeler article use some 2p coins as balance weights for under baseboard signal mechanism but got into trouble for drilling coin! Mid eighties I think or was it just a urban tall story? 

Could use Euros instead. No danger of any potential 'destruction of coin of realm' charges as they're not coins of the realm. 

[wilks]

9 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Track spacers with queen's head on....cool

 

Didn't some on in a railway modeler article use some 2p coins as balance weights for under baseboard signal mechanism but got into trouble for drilling coin! Mid eighties I think or was it just a urban tall story? 

Wasn't it on Chris Pendlenton's excellent North Shields layout in P4. I was lucky enough to see it at the Central Hall MRJ show and spent ages absorbing the layout, its operation and details - brilliant.

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, wilks said:

Wasn't it on Chris Pendlenton's excellent North Shields layout in P4. I was lucky enough to see it at the Central Hall MRJ show and spent ages absorbing the layout, its operation and details - brilliant.

Rings a bell.... but prob In MRJ! 

[steve45]

11 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Track spacers with queen's head on....cool

 

Didn't some on in a railway modeler article use some 2p coins as balance weights for under baseboard signal mechanism but got into trouble for drilling coin! Mid eighties I think or was it just a urban tall story? 

I know of one very large automated DCC model railway where 2 50p coins are welded together to form a 'T' which is then placed onto the track to make a short to immediately stop the train if there are any runaways or derailments. Very effective tool which only costs £1.

[bradfordbuffer]

4 hours ago, steve45 said:

I know of one very large automated DCC model railway where 2 50p coins are welded together to form a 'T' which is then placed onto the track to make a short to immediately stop the train if there are any runaways or derailments. Very effective tool which only costs £1.

Not a o gauge layout then!

 

Bit like Track circuit cips carried on locos.....but bigger

[KeithHC]

And a large clock in the Elizabeth tower I believe is regulated by penny coins that’s 1d not 1p. But that may have changed with the refurbishment going on.

 

Keith

 

sorry let’s get back to the track work. Wayne any ideas when the smaller size EM turnouts will appear………..

[bradfordbuffer]

20 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

And a large clock in the Elizabeth tower I believe is regulated by penny coins that’s 1d not 1p. But that may have changed with the refurbishment going on.

 

Keith

 

sorry let’s get back to the track work. Wayne any ideas when the smaller size EM turnouts will appear………..

Yep when you saved up enough penny's.....boom! I thank you!

[steve45]

10 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Not a o gauge layout then!

 

Bit like Track circuit cips carried on locos.....but bigger

No, not that one, but it does have its own Youtube channel

[bradfordbuffer]

8 hours ago, steve45 said:

No, not that one, but it does have its own Youtube channel

50p's only work z to p4 gauges!

[Andy Reichert]

On 03/03/2022 at 14:56, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Andy,

 

Prototype switch opening: 4.25 inches = 1.42mm at 4mm/ft scale.

 

EM and 00-SF switch opening = 1.75 mm min (a 20p coin can be used as a spacer).

 

Standard 00 switch opening = 2.0mm min (a 10p coin can be used as a spacer).

 

All those settings allow for RTR wheels, at the minimum back-to-back in each case.  (EM=16.3mm,  00-SF=14.3mm,  Standard 00: DOGA-I=14.2mm, 00-BF=14.0mm)

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Sorry. I assumed it was obvious my question was to Wayne as the kit maker. I would think only Wayne knows his manufacturing dimensions and tolerances. 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

Sorry. I assumed it was obvious my question was to Wayne as the kit maker. I would think only Wayne knows his manufacturing dimensions and tolerances. 

 

 

Hi Andy,

 

Your question was "I wondered why the little spacer said "EM/00-SF".

 

The answer being that EM and 00-SF are variants of the same standard, with the same switch opening. 00-SF was originally known as "EM minus 2".

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

18 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

Sorry. I assumed it was obvious my question was to Wayne as the kit maker. I would think only Wayne knows his manufacturing dimensions and tolerances. 

 

Andy

Yes, Martin had already answered your question.