OO Gauge GWR Toplight Mainline & City Coaches announced

[Miss Prism]

20 hours ago, OFFTHE RAILS said:

The BR "maroon" livery is unlikely to have been carried. That started in 1956 just as the coaches were withdrawn (Dapol say) in 1956-7. I suspect/hope Dapol really mean they'll be offering BR crimson/red/carmine which was used 1949-56.

 

I have left a comment on the Dapol announcement page accordingly. The comment is awaiting moderation, although Dapol tends not to publish any of my comments these days.

[57xx]

I'll withhold my "Yay, Toplights at last!" for now, these seem to be a rather niche choice to produce. Hopefully bodes well for the corridor stock though. It would be nice if they did versions without the all the gimmicks though (DCC lighting).

[NCB]

1 hour ago, Pteremy said:

Interesting, not least because Accurascale say that they considered corridor Toplights to go with their Manor but concluded that they would be a nightmare to get right (see the Manor thread). 

 

Given the slightly specialist nature of these announced carriages do they give us any clue as to the type of corridor Toplights Dapol might be most likely to go for?

 

My guess: steel toplights like these. In terms of variations much the simplest course. Very attractive coaches, to my eye.

[sjrixon]

Looking at the versions, which versions do people fancy? Think about 4 from set 3.. Artwork looks really nice.

[Compound2632]

21 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

This is deeply exciting. GWR toplight coaches have always been the Cinderella of steam era RTR coaches… “they’ll never get done”.

 

Well, that could be said of the vast majority of steam-era carriages.

[bubbles2]

The Whitewash coach DW139 is one corridor toplight which has lasted a long time in many different liveries but with much conversion along the way it would be good to see a model of it maybe with different slides tooled for the body side changes made over the years, it’s a coach that many people could justify as a one off to be included in parcels or passenger trains into the 1980s.

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, 57xx said:

I'll withhold my "Yay, Toplights at last!" for now, these seem to be a rather niche choice to produce. Hopefully bodes well for the corridor stock though. It would be nice if they did versions without the all the gimmicks though (DCC lighting).

 

The only "gimmick" per say is the lighting, which can take a DCC chip but the chip isn't provided and thus DCC isn't a cost factor.  Removing the lighting probably wouldn't decrease the price too much but would reduce the sales potential.

 

That said, to me a better choice to me would have been to go with the magnetic wand approach that Accurascale and Rapido use as that is both useful to everyone and avoids the issue of needing to handle the coach to put in a DCC decoder.

 

The pricing reflects both the niche issue you mention but also the dramatic price increases the hobby has faced for the last 12 months - and likely some extra for the price increases that are currently expected in the next 6 to 12 months.

[Harlequin]

56 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

The only "gimmick" per say is the lighting, which can take a DCC chip but the chip isn't provided and thus DCC isn't a cost factor.  Removing the lighting probably wouldn't decrease the price too much but would reduce the sales potential.

 

That said, to me a better choice to me would have been to go with the magnetic wand approach that Accurascale and Rapido use as that is both useful to everyone and avoids the issue of needing to handle the coach to put in a DCC decoder.

 

The pricing reflects both the niche issue you mention but also the dramatic price increases the hobby has faced for the last 12 months - and likely some extra for the price increases that are currently expected in the next 6 to 12 months.

 

Agree that adding clever lighting probably isn't much of an overhead these days and broadens the appeal.

 

A decoder should be able to do far more than simply turn the entire lighting set on and off. It should be able to control the lights in individual compartments, make them simulate the actual lighting with flickering, dimming or whatever idiosyncratic behaviour it had, and turn the lights in compartments on and off randomly to suggest there are people on board.

 

So not just a replacement for a switch!

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Harlequin

[County of Yorkshire]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well, that could be said of the vast majority of steam-era carriages.

I said that because, as it seems to me, GWR toplights in 4mm RTR have taken on an almost mythical standing on RMWeb.
 

I think they’ve been wishlisted and/or discussed on here more than, say, LMS period 1 stock, Midland arc-roof stock, LNWR stock and NER stock combined. I think only possibly the GNR/LNER quad/quint arts run them close in the popularity stakes on RMWeb. 
 

CoY

[Steamport Southport]

20 minutes ago, County of Yorkshire said:

I said that because, as it seems to me, GWR toplights in 4mm RTR have taken on an almost mythical standing on RMWeb.
 

I think they’ve been wishlisted and/or discussed on here more than, say, LMS period 1 stock, Midland arc-roof stock, LNWR stock and NER stock combined. I think only possibly the GNR/LNER quad/quint arts run them close in the popularity stakes on RMWeb. 
 

CoY

 

Probably because most of those mentioned have decent kits available from Ratio, LRM, MJT, Comet, 51L, Roxey, etc.

 

Most people asking for specific items of rolling stock seem to be the types that will build them if necessary.

 

 

Not much GWR currently available as kits apart from a few oddballs, four wheelers (Ratio and Shire) and the ones in the Comet range (which are probably too modern for many).

 

 

Look how many here are NLA. I doubt most will ever reappear.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4coacha.html

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Miss Prism]

16 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Look how many here are NLA. I doubt most will ever reappear.

 

True, reflecting how many ranges and manufacturers have bitten the dust (for one reason or another), and the declining and ageing audience who are interested in obtaining such things. But I keep the listings for a number of reasons - people finding things in their stashes they'd forgotten about, ebay finds/queries, requests for missing instructions, etc etc. The listing pages may be somewhat depressing, but are surprisingly popular.

 

[Budgie]

2 hours ago, mdvle said:

That said, to me a better choice to me would have been to go with the magnetic wand approach that Accurascale and Rapido use as that is both useful to everyone and avoids the issue of needing to handle the coach to put in a DCC decoder.

Maybe someone will come up with a magnetic switch on a circuit board that will fit into a decoder socket, which ought to be cheaper than a decoder, and will fit into other coaching stock that are DCC-ready. 

[Synch]

Really wonderful to see these, another tick off a long list for pre-grouping carriages (although Churchward stock seems to transcend that for most people). 

 

A question I have is the fully lined GWR livery, was this just a flight of fancy?  I remember the restoration of one of the Brake 3rds at Didcot was painted this way apparently unauthentically.

[Mick38]

Extremely good news - these are the "shorty" versions of the GWR toplights at 48 feet overall -  to date I have had to make do with the Graham Farish versions which do not appear to have been modelled on any particular prototype that I am able to identify. These promise to be very authentic. A full rake of six will set the bank account back a bit though!

321210920_Grafarcoaches.pdf

[Compound2632]

41 minutes ago, Mick38 said:

Extremely good news - these are the "shorty" versions of the GWR toplights at 48 feet overall [...]  A full rake of six will set the bank account back a bit though!

 

... but not take up an excessive length - just over 4 ft; a good 13 in shorter than six Mk 1s!

 

But how does £/ft compare with, say, the Hornby Coronation Scot or Coronation coaches?

[BMacdermott]

8 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

I said that because, as it seems to me, GWR toplights in 4mm RTR have taken on an almost mythical standing on RMWeb.
 

I think they’ve been wishlisted and/or discussed on here more than, say, LMS period 1 stock, Midland arc-roof stock, LNWR stock and NER stock combined. I think only possibly the GNR/LNER quad/quint arts run them close in the popularity stakes on RMWeb. 
 

CoY

 

Hello CoY and everyone

 

The (gangwayed) 'Toplights' have been in The Top 50 of The 00 Wishlist Poll consistently over the years. In 2019, they were equal position 13 out of over 800 items.

 

Both the GN and GE Quads made it to the Top 50 in 2019 (positions 22 and 33) -  with the GE Quints not far out.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by BMacdermott

[5Dublo2]

The lighting has been mentioned with respect to DCC in this thread already. However even though a DCC decoder socket is mentioned in the announcement, I can't see anything that states that the lights won't work on DC (or DCC without a chip fitted) like the Hornby Pullman Cars do. I guess we need to await more details on this functionality

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by 5Dublo2

[David Stannard]

16 hours ago, Pteremy said:

Interesting, not least because Accurascale say that they considered corridor Toplights to go with their Manor but concluded that they would be a nightmare to get right (see the Manor thread). 

 

Given the slightly specialist nature of these announced carriages do they give us any clue as to the type of corridor Toplights Dapol might be most likely to go for?

 

 When I asked that question on the Manor thread the response was that it's pretty much a veritable minefield to even think of what variant to model, I am glad that Dapol has decided to take the plunge and look forward to what they bring out, personally I would like to see a bunch of 57' variants as these would have travelled further afield and to more diverse locations than the 70' stock.

[Star-rider]

This is an extremely interesting announcement, especially after the GWR enthusiast being offered nothing of significance by Bachman or Hornby over the last month.

 

I am slightly concerned about the niche appeal of these though, they probably won’t sit well on most typical GWR layouts, perhaps their hope is that with the new Prairie interest will be stimulated in new projects being started by those who want to have a crack at a suburban London commuter set up.

 

I do hope that there is plenty of interest though and worry slightly that if there are not enough pre-orders made for these it may endanger the follow-on of corridor toplight stock, which I suspect will  generate significantly more custom.

 

Much as I wold like to support the Mainline and City stock with a pre-order I can’t really justify them and need to hang on to my pocket money for when more mainstream coaches are available. I’m not grumbling about the price – it is what it is and competitive enough in the current market – but £360.00 for a rake that does not fit with what I am trying to do is a luxury that I can’t afford.

 

I’m sure Dapol will see some of my money before Hornby or Bachmann though.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Dave (above)

 

Last year, some members of The 00 Poll Team ran some informal Mini-Polls on a respected RMweb GWR thread.

 

Attached is a PDF of how we approached the subject of gangwayed 'Toplights' (and I post this 'for info' and with no intent to go off topic.)

 

Brian (on behalf of The Mini-Poll Team)

 

 

GWR Mini-Poll No.9 The Case for a Select Few Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights Results.pdf

[Joseph_Pestell]

3 minutes ago, Star-rider said:

This is an extremely interesting announcement, especially after the GWR enthusiast being offered nothing of significance by Bachman or Hornby over the last month.

 

I am slightly concerned about the niche appeal of these though, they probably won’t sit well on most typical GWR layouts, perhaps their hope is that with the new Prairie interest will be stimulated in new projects being started by those who want to have a crack at a suburban London commuter set up.

 

I do hope that there is plenty of interest though and worry slightly that if there are not enough pre-orders made for these it may endanger the follow-on of corridor toplight stock, which I suspect will  generate significantly more custom.

 

Much as I wold like to support the Mainline and City stock with a pre-order I can’t really justify them and need to hang on to my pocket money for when more mainstream coaches are available. I’m not grumbling about the price – it is what it is and competitive enough in the current market – but £360.00 for a rake that does not fit with what I am trying to do is a luxury that I can’t afford.

 

I’m sure Dapol will see some of my money before Hornby or Bachmann though.

 

I think that you start from a false premise: that would-be purchasers will only be "serious" modellers whose layout reflects a specific location and era on the railway network.

My experience is that such modellers are very much a minority. Most modellers will run just about anything on their layouts but they do like a good match between the loco and the carriages being hauled.

We have seen some very "niche" products in recent years - more niche than these - but they seem to sell.

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think that you start from a false premise: that would-be purchasers will only be "serious" modellers whose layout reflects a specific location and era on the railway network.

My experience is that such modellers are very much a minority. Most modellers will run just about anything on their layouts but they do like a good match between the loco and the carriages being hauled.

We have seen some very "niche" products in recent years - more niche than these - but they seem to sell.

I agree for many it will be GWR coaching and they can run with one of my GWR coaches.

 

At the end of the day for most of us, our layout is a made up location so absolute rules of accuracy do not apply i.e Rule 1.

 

If I wasn't back in N I would be interested in a set just as I would be for a Hattons 4/6 wheel set.

[David Stannard]

26 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Dave (above)

 

Last year, some members of The 00 Poll Team ran some informal Mini-Polls on a respected RMweb GWR thread.

 

Attached is a PDF of how we approached the subject of gangwayed 'Toplights' (and I post this 'for info' and with no intent to go off topic.)

 

Brian (on behalf of The Mini-Poll Team)

 

 

GWR Mini-Poll No.9 The Case for a Select Few Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights Results.pdf 87.23 kB · 1 download

 

Thanks for that Brian, RTR Toplight's have been on my wishlist for many years and I have always voted for them when the main yearly polls are put out, the variants picked out in the mini poll are a very nice mix and I think the only thing that could be added to it would be either an A9 or A15, given the suggestions you have listed are steel panelled variants the A15 would probably be more appropriate but it would be nice to see some wood panelled versions as well..   

Edited February 4, 2022 by David Stannard

[Harlequin]

40 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Dave (above)

 

Last year, some members of The 00 Poll Team ran some informal Mini-Polls on a respected RMweb GWR thread.

 

Attached is a PDF of how we approached the subject of gangwayed 'Toplights' (and I post this 'for info' and with no intent to go off topic.)

 

Brian (on behalf of The Mini-Poll Team)

 

 

GWR Mini-Poll No.9 The Case for a Select Few Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights Results.pdf 87.23 kB · 9 downloads

 

This mini-poll, carried out amongst visitors to one particular thread, may not be representative of the wider GWR community.

 

[BMacdermott]

6 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

This mini-poll, carried out amongst visitors to one particular thread, may not be representative of the wider GWR community.

 

Hello Harlequin

 

We knew that.

 

Brian