Cambridge Buffet Express

[stewartingram]

I regularly worked the Cambridge line  from 75-78 as a secondman. the 31s were well up to the task and as I've documented elsewhere on this forum, we regularly managed the ton on the up through Wood Green tunnel with 8 on!!

 

I can only remember one 31 failure during that time, that was on the double track bit at Welwyn in the evening peak!! Chaos ensued but luckily they sent a light engine bang road from Welwyn.

 

I can't recall using a 45 or 46 on the Cambridges; 37s would have been a no-no as KX men weren't trained on them, though Cambridge men were. 47s very rarely, and never a Deltic! That's not to say they didn't work the Cambridge trains though. Fun days.

I certainly saw Peaks (probably 46 but in those days we didn't know the difference) and 55, also 47 was seen as a running-in job in early days. Later on they became regular. I went to school in Hills Road Cambridge c1960-65 and frequented the Cattle Market area as well as seeing them from school. Never saw a 37 on them though.

 

Stewart

[TravisM]

I'm really pleased that I asked this thread as the replies have been great but I have to ask one thing, what was a "Booth" car? I assume it was a MkI conversion from a buffet or restaurant car.

 

Nice to see from pictures that BR kept hold of some Gresley and Thompson coaches and sent relatively new MkI' for scrap.

 

Julian Sprott

[Nimbus]

I can't recall using a 45 or 46 on the Cambridges; 37s would have been a no-no as KX men weren't trained on them, though Cambridge men were. 47s very rarely, and never a Deltic! That's not to say they didn't work the Cambridge trains though. Fun days.

 

A decade or so earlier. One afternoon about 4pm a Deltic did appear from round the corner at Hitchin on my home-bound CBE. Didn't record which, though, perhaps I assumed it was the start of a new regime!

 

The Nim.

[Jim]

Hmmmmmmmmm,

Sometimes I wish I didn't read this forum..

 

This particular thread has just cost me £45!

I was quite taken by the Hornby blue-grey Gresley when it was released, it but had no knowledge on how to run it.

Well now this thread has given me the excuse.....

 

Jim

[Baby Deltic]

I certainly saw Peaks (probably 46 but in those days we didn't know the difference) and 55, also 47 was seen as a running-in job in early days. Later on they became regular. I went to school in Hills Road Cambridge c1960-65 and frequented the Cattle Market area as well as seeing them from school. Never saw a 37 on them though.

 

Stewart

Class 45's were fairly rare at KX because they were mainly LMR. Gateshead class 46's were fairly common at KX. Its likely one had visited Finsbury Park for attention and they decided to give it a local run on the KBE to see if all was well before sending it back on a Newcastle express.

[roythebus]

KX men would sometimes work a 45 on the 16:30 or whatever it was from Leeds to KX. They were the curse of us as they just couldn't keep time!

[mark54]

I'm really pleased that I asked this thread as the replies have been great but I have to ask one thing, what was a "Booth" car? I assume it was a MkI conversion from a buffet or restaurant car.

The Booth Car was a 1968 conversion from a former Mk1 kitchen car, as was the Lounge-Buffet Car. Both are featured here:

 

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/london-new-catering-coaches-aka-new-british-rail/query/railway+restaurant+car

[TravisM]

I think I will just keep to the Gresley Buffet Car. A blue Class 31 with 6 MkI's and the Buffet Car is a nice workable model train.

 

Julian Sprott

[D1671]

There are vague mentions here and there that, in addition to FALCON, D0260 LION also took an occasional turn on the CBE. Does anybody know anything definite on this?

Edited August 8, 2014 by D1671

[South of 1E]

Quite a bit of loco and stock variety on 1B66 here  http://www.leightonlogs.org/1B66rememrev.htm

 

updates the text of a Traction article on said classic train

 

hope this helps!

 

NR

[Baby Deltic]

KX men would sometimes work a 45 on the 16:30 or whatever it was from Leeds to KX. They were the curse of us as they just couldn't keep time!

I think the 46's were better than the 45's on acceleration and timekeeping, but the 45's were more reliable and preferred by many loco men I've spoken to. My uncle Tony, who was a Peterborough driver, preferred 40's because if something went wrong, you could usually keep them limping along, whereas the 45's and 46's would be a total failure because you couldn't 'fiddle' as much in the engine rooms. He used to call 40's 'overtimers' because they were a tad under powered and slow.

[slilley]

Certainly D0280 was used on the CBE when it first went to the ER. I am sure there have been some photos published of the loco on such working.

[stewartingram]

I'm certain that Lion was used on 1B66, but right now can't find proof in my notebooks of the time. I went to school alongside the line, just south of the station at Cambridge, seeing the CBE every day. I know that I copped D0280, D0260, DP2, and Taurus all around that time and recall seeing them in the area (though a tad uncertain about actually where I saw Lion!).I do know I photted it at Swindon posted on here somewhere) and she came over to the ER afterwards though.

 

Stewart

 

ps as far as I'm concerned, she ran under Rule 1 (amendment 31A) - so there!

[MRE]

Had many years experience working the Cambridge Buffet trains. Headcode was 1B66 in both directions, non-buffet Cambridge fast trains also used 1B66, 2B66 was used for Cambridge stopping trains. During the 1970s all Buffets were booked a 31 except the 11.30 KX-Cambridge and return which was rostered a 47. Occasionally a loco on a test trip (normally with FP fitters on board) could be used and I have been on trains with 40, 46, and 55 on test runs. The Deltic was not really suitable for the Buffet trains, only had it for one test trip. Very rarely a 37 would appear, with Cambridge crew as KX drivers were not loco trained in the 1970s. Station stops in the 1970s were WGC, Stevenage, Hitchin, Royston, Cambridge, extra stops were added in the final days Finsbury Park and Letchworth IIRC. Running time KX-Cambridge was 90 minutes, 30 minute turnaround at Cambridge where the secondman had to uncouple and run round the train then couple up again, this was rare for KX secondmen as the only other places we had to do it was north of York, except in case of emergency such as a failure on the road. A complete round trip for KX crews was 3 1/2hours and there was one diagram with 2 trips, the 'Double Cambridge' which worked ex KX 11.30, ex Cambridge 13.30, ex KX 15.30, ex Cambridge 17.30, a long diagram but in those days was worth some mileage payment. The train did have a Gresley buffet in the 1970s, not sure exactly when it was made redundant, it could have lasted until the EMU service began but can't confirm as by that time I had moved up.

[D854_Tiger]

Like a ride I had behind one from Birmingham to Banbury subbing for a 52. It took an age to get up the bank from Leamington to Fenny Compton

 

I had one the other way, heading north behind a class 50 towards Leamington, in the front coach, I had thought it was raining.

 

It was raining - raining oil - the 50 was declared a failure at Leamington and the passengers directed to other services. I elected to wait to see what turned up and it was a class 31, boy did that make an effort up the hill into Coventry.

 

Back to the Gresley buffet, is my memory playing tricks, but wasn't there one of those plying its way on Cross Country expresses, well into the blue grey era in the 1970s and maybe even longer.

[Phil Bullock]

I had one the other way, heading north behind a class 50 towards Leamington, in the front coach, I had thought it was raining.

 

It was raining - raining oil - the 50 was declared a failure at Leamington and the passengers directed to other services. I elected to wait to see what turned up and it was a class 31, boy did that make an effort up the hill into Coventry.

 

Back to the Gresley buffet, is my memory playing tricks, but wasn't there one of those plying its way on Cross Country expresses, well into the blue grey era in the 1970s and maybe even longer.

 

W9135E was in a Bristol excursion set until 1976 - had her to Ravenglass and back that May behind D1013, a Sparky and a couple of kettles

 

Phil

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There was quite a sport in the glorious summer of 76, trying to ride the last five Gresley buffets then believed to be operating: E9115/28/31/32E and W9135E. Last chance to enjoy the 'springy ride' with ship like creaking when in motion, with a pint or two to enhance the experience.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I refurbished and sold a wheelbarrow in order to raise the funds for a return to Cambridge in about 1971 (pocket money was in short supply), just to ride in a Greeley buffet. I "cabbed" the 31, and was shocked by how primitive it was, compared with southern locos - positively crude and rough. The loco also lacked oomph compared with a Crompton on the same load.

 

K

[roythebus]

I went to KX in November/December 1976 as 2nd man and I don't recall seeing any Gresley buffets on the CBE in those days.

 

Yes, the double CBE was a long day but it paid good mileage!

[Titan]

Holy thread resurrection! 

 

However it would seem that it would be appropriate to post here.  A little earlier (ok a lot earlier time wise!) some formations were mentioned, which showed an FK or FO adjacent to the Buffet. It would appear that on one occasion this vehicle was an ex Met-cam/mk1 Pullman second repainted in standard, as opposed to reverse blue grey, and used as a FO.

 

 

Anyone have any idea how long it might have stayed in the formation? Was it a regular or a one off?

 

Either way my version of the CBE has it in, even if it means a bit of rule 1!

[TravisM]

On 22/09/2022 at 12:04, Titan said:

Holy thread resurrection! 

 

However it would seem that it would be appropriate to post here.  A little earlier (ok a lot earlier time wise!) some formations were mentioned, which showed an FK or FO adjacent to the Buffet. It would appear that on one occasion this vehicle was an ex Met-cam/mk1 Pullman second repainted in standard, as opposed to reverse blue grey, and used as a FO.

 

 

Anyone have any idea how long it might have stayed in the formation? Was it a regular or a one off?

 

Either way my version of the CBE has it in, even if it means a bit of rule 1!

 

I think I've seen that picture has been seen before and it's possibly on the Harwich Parkeston Quay - Manchester Piccadilly service

[31A]

On 22/09/2022 at 12:04, Titan said:

Holy thread resurrection! 

 

However it would seem that it would be appropriate to post here.  A little earlier (ok a lot earlier time wise!) some formations were mentioned, which showed an FK or FO adjacent to the Buffet. It would appear that on one occasion this vehicle was an ex Met-cam/mk1 Pullman second repainted in standard, as opposed to reverse blue grey, and used as a FO.

 

 

Anyone have any idea how long it might have stayed in the formation? Was it a regular or a one off?

 

Either way my version of the CBE has it in, even if it means a bit of rule 1!

 

I don't recall seeing any of the ex Pullman FOs on the CBE.  I can't claim to have seen all the CBEs, but I did see a lot whilst  supposed to be at school in Cambridge between 1968 & 1975!

 

[jimwal]

I recall seeing the LIverpool Street to Harwich boat trains with the ex Pullmans in their formations and possibly the Gresley Buffet as well.

This would have been early to mid seventies.

[BernardTPM]

The Thompson Buffets were also used on that service until the end of the '70s.