RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 I must admit I much prefer turning the dial of a conventional DC controller to the endless button pressing of DCC. Depends on the controller, the Gaugemaster (which I know you've used) is certainly not the most user friendly IMHO, so don't let that put you off. On a shunting layout the centre off dial on my old multi maus (for example) allowed for simple one handed operation. Only button pressing (other than function keys) being to scroll through the saved list of locos. Sorry for the slightly off topic rant, glad the kit build is progressing nicely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I concur with both Chris & Mark. My button pressing is confined to loco selection, and, on the sound equipped locos, tooting, cylinder drains, and the odd safety valve... So far, I have two locos so equipped, both v4 ESUs from Howes, and I love the automatic variation in chuff from wide open regulator to drifting steam. Haven't yet tried to fit steam generators. One day... Regarding throttles, Multimaus works well, Lenz LH90/200 also, and if you can stand the buttons, the LH100 is excellent. I am much in favour of separation of driver and signalman, so my points & signals are controlled by a simple lever frame - I have no accessory decoders (but may consider automation of a fiddle yard at some point). I am an engineer, and coincidentally work with batteries, I think there is potential for on-board rechargeables, but until r/c can do what DCC can do (and at comparable prices) I'm sticking with DCC. (There is an excellent & informative thread on the subject at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64616-battery-poweredradio-controlled-locos/page-13). If anyone does choose to play with lithium batteries, please RTBM and follow the instructions therein - do not provoke them, and they won't bite. Yes, sorry, off topic too.... Please continue the build. I'm following with interest as a 1361 is on my shopping list (as would be a DCC chip with appropriate sounds HINT HINT!) Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 I thought that would wake folk up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm glad to see that you now have a sweetly rolling chassis, now to get it self propelled and you've done the hard part. SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 I suppose you have gone beyond the point of no return now with the crank pins? With the Slaters' method, you can then use the CPL GWR style crank pin nuts. They do look the business. I have fitted them to all my GWR locos, see my Locos thread. Mind you, you do need to buy a 12 BA tap. There is a plan B if you wish to use CPL ones. Yes, perhaps a little late! After all the inaction I've caught you all out with some, for me, rapid progress. Hopefully the motor tonight. On the 'to get' list is a key to do up the center nut on the Slaters wheels. I suspect Slaters do one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 On the 'to vet's list is a key to do up the center nut on the Slaters wheels. I suspect Slaters do one? I think you will find most Hardware/ Tool shops sell them as well and probably for a third of the price . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 Making good progress indeed young Spams, as for DCC it would be a good idea to install a socket for easier retro fitting, it can also be easily returned to DC if needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 The DCC did wake us all up. I have no difficulty wiring up layouts but I do find that everyone has their own ideas and what seems logical sections to one seems odd to another. I like the fact that there are no sections switches needed with DCC but as you say on a small layout with mostly one engine active it doesn't make a lot of difference. But I had a 5 turnout shunting layout. No section switches but sidings were isolated with the turnout set against them. Someone managed to get the Railmotor stuck in a siding. As four of the turnouts worked as crossovers trying to through a turnout to release it connected the other engine up as well. So do provide an isolating switch so you can isolate one of the locos if need be. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think you will find most Hardware/ Tool shops sell them as well and probably for a third of the price .I've already got a good selection but none any where near as small enough. I know what you mean about tool prices but I can't imagine any of the DIY sheds or hardware shops near me selling one so small. (i note the phone's random auto correct changed get to vet's!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, but it is a standard hex Allan key. Just measured mine and it is 1.25mm across the flats. Any good tool supplier will have one, for example Squires or Eileen's Emporium. Do not over tighten. I have recently seen the hex socket in the axle screw rounded off in a 2nd hand loco. My friend had to cut the axles out on that one!!!! Thanks for the size Paul. That helps order the right one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Making good progress indeed young Spams, as for DCC it would be a good idea to install a socket for easier retro fitting, it can also be easily returned to DC if needed. You are probably correct there Paul...what sort of socket (and presumably blanking plug?) would I need? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Ok, one for the GWR experts... Quartering. Standing in the cab of the 1366 facing forward, if the coupling rods on the left are at the highest point, would those on the right be midway forward or midway rearward? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Chris AFAIK right hand crank leads, thus if the LH cranks are at top dead centre, the RH cranks must be at front dead centre. I trust there will be howls and screams if I got it wrong . Not least from me as quite a few locos will need attention! (But I don't care how many rivets he counts, he can't see both sides of the loco at once!!!) Turning to your socket / blanking plug query - depends what chip you might use. This would be easy if someone (HINT ) were to issue a 13xx sound project, but none yet available. My guess is that if one were to be produced, it might well be on Zimo, and I guess that an 8-pin, or 21-pin would be possible. For simplicity, I would recommend an 8-pin if you go that way, and a harness with an 8-pin socket, and an 8-pin blanking plug, are available. I did have a look on the websites of the usual suspects but didn't find the necessary bits, but I'm sure a phone call to any of the DCC suppliers will get you what you need. Personally, I have not used sockets on most of my locos, there are 4 key wires, red (right rail) black (left rail) orange ( one side of motor) & grey (other side of motor) and frankly, I'd just solder the decoder in. Messing around with lights and smoke generators, and sound will of course add further connections - again, these can be soldered, or you can buy micro-connectors to do these. Most decoders run very happily on DC as well as DCC, so whilst it costs, if you just fit a chip as you build it, you will be prepared for use on DCC if & when you set up the layout to use it. You can also incorporate "stay-alive" capacitors which will prevent stalls due to poor pickup, and you can arrange that the decoder acceleration & deceleration are applied when on DC as well. Everyone will have their favourite decoders but for what it's worth, I have ~ 10 Zimo non-sound decoders and two ESU v4 with sound. Happy with both. I have some old (>10 yrs)Lenz decoders, which are less good, no experience of more modern ones. HTH Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84B Oxley Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Chris Simon is correct, the GWR were conventional in having what is known as 'right hand lead'. (Beware of anything with three cylinders as the cranks are then at 120 degrees to each other.............) Nice progress on your 1366 so far, keep it up. Probably too late now but I use 10BA screws as crankpins, tapping the wheels first by turning the tap by hand in a vertical drill. Slaters' brass bushes tap 10BA very simply without having to be drilled. It is possible to use CPL crankpins as designed for Allan Harris wheels or just screw the Slaters' bushes on tight. All easier to do than explain. Honest! I changed from the Slaters 12 BA after my King sheared its leading crankpin, which took me hours to sort out as the wheels were not very accessible. (Another lesson learned in my earlier O Gauge days..) Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Simon / Jeff thanks for answering the quartering question, much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 The goal for tonight was to get the motor in and turning. First task was to file a flat on the axle to take the grub screw. I noticed on his thread that Chaz did this reasonably deep so I followed suit. Next I got all the motor bits out of the pack and trimmed the gearbox. All ready to solder in the bearings. Slight hitch... Anyone spot an issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not enough bearings ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Jeff 10BA crankpins are a good idea, I've done this on most of my locos, which have Slater's bushes tapped to suit. I file a pair of flats on the flanges and made a spanner to tighten them. DLOS (and others) of this parish and the GOG websites did a rather more technical / professional job of drilling a pair of holes in the flanges, and making a peg spanner to suit. I turned up longer bushes for driving axles. Slater's wheels tap easily for 10BA, epoxy secures the screw to the wheel. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Bearings? Worm? Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 So Plan B... I promised earlier today photos showing the travel in the leading two axles. So here we go - the chassis is definitely not rigid. The holes were neatened up after the photos during the course of some fettling to locate and get rid of an occasional slight tight spot. Tracked it down to one of the bearings on the leading axle not quite sat square. Whilst playing around with the compensation beam I soldered some thin bits of etch to the side facing the frames. The purpose is hopefully to reduce the area of the beam in contact with the frames and to provide a little breathing room for the motion bracket and leading brake which fix close to the screw for pivoting the beams. I'm beginning to see why the chap from Agenoria said the beams may not work as there wasn't really room for them. On the plus side I can always take them off and try something else. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not the worm then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not enough bearings ? Indeed - I appear to have 2 too many of the small bearings and 2 too short of the larger ones. Sort of stops proceedings! 10 eyespy points to you Stu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Bearings? Worm? Simon I'm taking your first answer, which is a good job because you're right. You can also have 10 eyespy points ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 Jeff 10BA crankpins are a good idea, I've done this on most of my locos, which have Slater's bushes tapped to suit. I file a pair of flats on the flanges and made a spanner to tighten them. DLOS (and others) of this parish and the GOG websites did a rather more technical / professional job of drilling a pair of holes in the flanges, and making a peg spanner to suit. I turned up longer bushes for driving axles. Slater's wheels tap easily for 10BA, epoxy secures the screw to the wheel. Best Simon Whilst talking about longer bushes for the driving wheels...I'm guessing I'll need longer ones for this loco. A trial fit of the unsoldered driving rod etches shows they stand proud of the existing Slaters bush. Now, i don't have the kit at home to turn up my own bushes, so suggestions of alternative ways / products are welcomed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 It might be worth mentioning wheels at this point. I am guessing that they are Slaters? At the moment, I cannot find a thread which explains about de-burring the axle shoulders / square ends. Does anybody know of one on here? Burrs will cause the axles to be tight on entering the bosses and also create wheel wobble, so they need to be removed very carefully. Occasionally, I have found the brass bosses to have burrs as well. . I have explained my method of identifying wheels here. With an 0-6-0, there are 720 permutations of wheel position! (6 factorial for the mathematically minded). With my method, I can keep track of which wheel I have selected to go where. When building the chassis, it eliminates any manufacturing tolerance difference between wheels / crank pin positions etc. The same wheel always goes in the same place. I metal black my tyres, as explained here. They look better and do not rust so readily. Normally, I fettle up, mark-up and blacken the wheels before starting on a loco chassis. Paul I've taken your advice and identified the wheels so that they always go back in the right place: Will be blackening the wheels soon while I wait for extra bearings for the gearbox...the wheels are already showing signs of the brown stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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