steve howe Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I am not too well informed in the world of RTR locos these days except that the quality seems to be continually rising with every new introduction. Can anyone more knowlegable in these things than I give me a steer on the situation with the GWR 'Hall' class locos from Hornby and Bachmann? I am looking to get an un-modified (i.e early) Hall class loco for conversion to P4. Recent work with the 'Grange' and the 28xx has shown it is relatively simple now to add dummy frames in black plasticard to the existing chassis and swap the wheel sets for scale ones. However I am encountering a bewildering arrray of 'Halls' from various periods both prototypical and manufacture, and I am not sure which is generally considered to be the better model. There seems to be plenty of Bachmann Modified Halls about, but few un-modified, and I don't know what names and numbers the models of unmodified engines were issued under, similarly, the most recent Hornby 'Hall' seems to be part of their 'Railroad' range which I thought was a lesser detailed, more robust range than their standard models? Has Hornby issued a 'Hall' recently which is to the same standard as their 'Grange'? and is the Hornby specimen better mechanically than the Bachmann? Any guidance gratefully received! Confused of Cornwall! Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbyhall Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I am not too well informed in the world of RTR locos these days except that the quality seems to be continually rising with every new introduction. Can anyone more knowlegable in these things than I give me a steer on the situation with the GWR 'Hall' class locos from Hornby and Bachmann? I am looking to get an un-modified (i.e early) Hall class loco for conversion to P4. Recent work with the 'Grange' and the 28xx has shown it is relatively simple now to add dummy frames in black plasticard to the existing chassis and swap the wheel sets for scale ones. However I am encountering a bewildering arrray of 'Halls' from various periods both prototypical and manufacture, and I am not sure which is generally considered to be the better model. There seems to be plenty of Bachmann Modified Halls about, but few un-modified, and I don't know what names and numbers the models of unmodified engines were issued under, similarly, the most recent Hornby 'Hall' seems to be part of their 'Railroad' range which I thought was a lesser detailed, more robust range than their standard models? Has Hornby issued a 'Hall' recently which is to the same standard as their 'Grange'? and is the Hornby specimen better mechanically than the Bachmann? Any guidance gratefully received! Confused of Cornwall! Steve i would stick Bachmann or Hornby mainstream the railroad range are crap devoid of detail and cheep parts i bought a class 55 deltic in the railroad range put it on the layout and it just stoped i took it to my freind who fixs locos it needed a new motor they are designed for people on a budget. dont know if that helps the mainstream stuff is the best. it seems to be ever since all the work went over to china they dont make much at margate any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted October 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2015 Dear Confused of Cornwall, I have two Bachmann Hall's and one Hornby... and all three locos are great... The Bachmann ones have all been bought in the last 5 years or so (maybe a bit longer) - I would suggest if you would like one to scour eBay.... Bachmann have dropped them from the catalogue in favour of the Modified Hall for the moment. When Hornby announced their Hall, I was interested as it is the small tender version, ok so it is in the Railroad range, but not a bad loco for all of that. I would recommend it.... Its got its limitations, but look hard enough on RMWeb and you will also see folks rubbishing the Bachmann model. I would suggest the definitive model / super detail to 2015 standards maybe has not (yet) been produced, but they are getting there. All of mine are a pretty good representation, haul the loads I demand and I think are ok for what they are. Go ahead, get a couple and see how you get on and good luck. Don't forget to share the photos. Neal. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted October 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2015 There is one here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-30-525-OO-Gauge-4-6-0-GWR-Hall-4965-Rood-Ashton-Hall-LOCO-ONLY-Ex-Set-/171838218445?hash=item28025b20cd:m:m3kFjs4OcAvTs7Mpg4KW4Sg No connection to the seller, so can not vouch for them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted October 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2015 There is one here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-30-525-OO-Gauge-4-6-0-GWR-Hall-4965-Rood-Ashton-Hall-LOCO-ONLY-Ex-Set-/171838218445?hash=item28025b20cd:m:m3kFjs4OcAvTs7Mpg4KW4Sg No connection to the seller, so can not vouch for them. I have bought a Bachmann Rood Ashton Hall (split from the Shakespeare Express set) from this seller and am very happy with it. It came unboxed, but complete with all detailing parts. The model is also available from Rails: https://railsofsheffield.com/-rood-ashton-hall-gwr-green-halls-class-4-6-0-locomotive-4965-JJJA28452.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted October 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2015 I have bought a Bachmann Rood Ashton Hall (split from the Shakespeare Express set) from this seller and am very happy with it. It came unboxed, but complete with all detailing parts. The model is also available from Rails: https://railsofsheffield.com/-rood-ashton-hall-gwr-green-halls-class-4-6-0-locomotive-4965-JJJA28452.aspx i see the open top bus from that set is also available separately for 40 sheets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 While we are on "Halls", can anyone clue me up as to when/whether/how many/which ones were painted in BR black mixed -traffic livery? I have a Lionel 0 gauge one, which I intend to tidy up a bit and re-livery (the factory green is a really strange, pale, shade); a pal will be doing his in GWR green, so I'm hoping for justification to have mine in early BR black. Thanks in advance, K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) While we are on "Halls", can anyone clue me up as to when/whether/how many/which ones were painted in BR black mixed -traffic livery? Pretty much the entire class were painted in this livery in the late 40s/early 50s. The WR were not keen on the livery and preferred to keep their black locos unlined but the Halls, Counties and Saints received it pretty much wholesale. If there were Halls in other liveries in the early 50s, they were the exception rather than the rule. Just remember that Halls were only painted black in the "early crest" period. By the time the late crest was introduced, the WR had already started painting its locos green again. So while you would find both black and green halls with the early crest (the latter appearing from 1956 onwards) I have not seen any pictures of Halls receiving black livery and the late crest. Whilst somewhat grubby, the lined MT black livery can clearly be made out on these 1950s photos. Edited October 16, 2015 by Karhedron 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Perfect, Karhedron, many thanks. My time-span is c1935-c1955, so ideal. So far, in all pictures of ex-GWR locos, even the black and white pictures, the locos look green to me! It's a subliminal thing. K 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 So far, in all pictures of ex-GWR locos, even the black and white pictures, the locos look green to me! It's a subliminal thing. That's what colour they are supposed to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 railroad range are crap devoid of detail and cheep parts I have to disagree strongly with this statement. My opinion, and from this site clearly shared by others, the Railroad Hall is outstanding value for money. I paid £62 for mine. I could not buy the wheels, motor and gears let alone a complete kit to come up with a 'detailed' model to better it. Based on bitter experience the Railroad runs better and has superior hauling capabilities compared to the Bachmann. There is no difference between the running chassis of the Railroad and the Hornby mainstream. No manufacturer is going to produce two assembly lines when economies of scale dictate to just produce one. The price difference relates to body detail level, paint finish and add on parts included in the more expensive Hornby Hall. For a few hours work it can be personalised to your requirements. 4941 below has 247 Development plates, added lamps, smokebox door dart, crew from Airfix RAF set, a quick brush over with precision green to give it an in service used look. The whole project cost me less than £80 and it is individual to me. If only all my modelling projects could be completed for that price! I have bought a second one and left it on the shelf as a spare power/chassis unit should this one ever fail, to ensure I will always have a Hall available. Mike Wiltshire 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve howe Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) Am I to take it then that the Railroad body shell is the new tooling? I ask this because I bought a Hornby Hall on Ebay a couple of weeks ago and my colleagues in the Club tell me it is a fairly old model with only partial daylight under the boiler, and that the basic dimensions were not accurate. Fortunately I managed to sell it on for (slightly) more than I paid for it! My understanding was that Hornby have introduced a new Hall to compete with the Bachmann release, and that it was well received by the Reviewers, but I know nothing of it being in the Railroad range or their mainstream stock. I have no problem with a 'basic' body shell providing it is an accurate representation, I would in all probability replace fittings like safety valve cover, buffers, slide bars, crossheads etc with more scale items as part of the general make-over. The Railroad Hall at around £60 makes for a more viable conversion project than the Bachmann at around £109 upwards, especially when, in my case I would need to supply new wheels. The Hall in Mike's post above looks pretty good to me and I would be wanting the smaller tender, partly because it fits my period and also because, to my eyes anyway, it looks more proportionate than the later ones and definitely prettier than the awful slab-sided Hawksworth thing some of them finally ended up with! Great pics Karhedron btw! Steve Edited October 17, 2015 by steve howe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Try looking and scrolling in the Hornby section or type Hornby Hall in the top right hand search box. You'll be amazed at what turns up with a little bit of research ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Yes, the Railroad Hall is the new tooling. The main catalogue one is, therefore, not superior in terms of moulded detail and, given the compromises in moulded detail, is not particularly good value for the price IMHO. The Railroad version is very good value. In terms of detail, you can purchase the add-on detailing pack from Hornby directly, I believe (brake rodding etc). This is not supplied with the Railroad model but fits it because it is the same tooling as the main catalogue version. You would need to super-detail both main and Railroad versions equally, replacing moulded-on hand rails etc. The disadvantage of the Railroad is that it does need a repaint. The orange lining is quite good (better than the Bachmann), but lacks the black centre line. Hornby GW green is pretty mucky too. There is no lining on the valances etc. Coach Bogie shows what can be done. I have no problem with the Bachmann Hall, having both Collett and Churchward tendered versions. The main issue to overcome is that the orange lining is too prominent. I suspect it is too thick and possibly too bright. I will need to find a way to tone it down. I have a Railroad Hall and intend to acquire further examples. In the mid-'30s pairings with Churchward 4,000 gallon tenders, and, particularly, Collett 3,500 gallon tenders were fairly common, and, so, as a tender swop necessitates a repaint, I decided that the Railroad Hall was a good candidate. In sum, if you are going to super-detail, repaint and line, I think I would agree with Coach Bogie in saying that the Railroad Hall is the best model to adapt. I cannot comment upon gauge conversion, however. Edited October 30, 2015 by Edwardian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve howe Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Thanks for that Edwardian, really helpful. It confirms my thoughts about the Railroad version, after all tooling is an highly expensive process and what manufacturer would produce two separate tools for the same model?! The repainting and detailing was always going to be part of the plan, so now I can start to look for a suitable candidate! Many thanks Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 A cheap option may be to pick up the Hornby Hogwarts Castle (which, confusingly, is an unmodified Hall) and repaint it. The one to avoid is the older Bachmann split-chassis Modified Hall (Soughton Hall); it runs very nicely when it wants to but you always have the problem of the brittle plastic axles cracking. Mine is fixed, for the time being, but this acts as a disincentive to run it a lot. I rather like the Hawksworth welded tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Rogerzilla - I thought that the official Hornby Hogwarts engine used its Castle model to represent the Hall used in the film (which was named after a castle)! The unofficial red version uses the new Hall tooling. I am not aware of a price advantage over the Railroad Hall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2015 i would stick Bachmann or Hornby mainstream the railroad range are crap devoid of detail and cheep parts i bought a class 55 deltic in the railroad range put it on the layout and it just stoped i took it to my freind who fixs locos it needed a new motor they are designed for people on a budget. dont know if that helps the mainstream stuff is the best. it seems to be ever since all the work went over to china they dont make much at margate any more. One bad experience doesn't mean that all Railroad products are,as you colourfully express it,"crap". The newly tooled Hall is probably the best value r-t-r steam model on the market presently.I too prefer it to my Bachmann versions. There are also some excellent A4 Railroad models around,to say nothing of Cock Of The North,Duke Of Gloucester and the new Crosti 9F. Oh,and they all have excellent performance,be they 3 or 5 pole motor.They are for anybody and not just for people on a budget.To rubbish them like this is just plain wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve howe Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 A cheap option may be to pick up the Hornby Hogwarts Castle (which, confusingly, is an unmodified Hall) and repaint it. I was thinking that because Ebay seems to be awash with red Halls at the moment, presumably based on the Hogwarts thing, but confusingly named 'Olton Hall' and carrying Great Western lettering! (I know Olton Hall was the original victim of the Harry Potter makeover, presumably it will be restored to its proper guise when all the fuss has died down) I didn't like to display my ignorance as to whether 'Olton Hall' was an un-modified early one, a search of the engine registers seemed a bit ambiguous. 'Adderley Hall' seemed the safest bet. Still, if the body's all the same under a coat of paint it makes sense to bid on one of these Hogwarts efforts as they are generally a lot cheaper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR Joe Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Disney (or whoever) now own Olton Hall and it will never be green again. It is meant to be a castle so that is what Hornby used despite it really being a hall. I repeat the Hornby hogwarts model is a castle loco I have Bachmann Sketty Hall and the Hornby Adderley Hall and they both lovely. The Hornby is actually better at pulling but has less detail. Edited October 31, 2015 by GWR Joe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Disney (or whoever) now own Olton Hall and it will never be green again. It is meant to be a castle so that is what Hornby used despite it really being a hall. I repeat the Hornby hogwarts model is a castle loco I have Bachmann Sketty Hall and the Hornby Adderley Hall and they both lovely. The Hornby is actually better at pulling but has less detail. Unless something has changed recently, my understanding is 5972 is still in private ownership and is only on loan/lease to Warners for a fixed 2 year period. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR Joe Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Oh yeah, I'm wrong, also says Hornby now have a Olton Hall which is actually a hall https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_4900_Class_5972_Olton_Hall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 It is meant to be a castle so that is what Hornby used despite it really being a hall. I am not sure where you get Hogwarts Castle is meant to be a GWR Castle class. The mythical engine from the mythical series of books and films is whatever the writers and creatives at Warners want it to be. Prior to Olton Hall the engine used was a Southern West Country, painted in the same red livery, though at that time the name was 'Hogwarts Express'. On the original book cover it was....well no class of engine I know, though it did have smoke deflectors with the names on the deflectors. http://railwayherald.com/images/ic/750/263447.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2183/2530085239_83022f7736.jpg?v=1211969705 Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I've always thought Euston is a better model for the start of Harry's journey than Kings X. If you think of her description of pushing a trolley down a slope towards a barrier, as Harry does to catch the train,, I've always thought that fits Euston much better than Kings X. Particularly how the station was a few years ago with the big metal barriers separating the ticket posts with each platform in pairs, eg 9 and 10. Wikipedia, and I have seen elsewhere, saws Rowling thought of the story on a train from Manchester to London. Likelihood is she was arriving at Euston. However, she wrote the books in edinburgh, served by Kings X and I think transposed her memory of the two stations On a serious note, if we gain / regain one railway modeller who picks it up via Harry Potter then great. Apols for OT 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR Joe Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I am not sure where you get Hogwarts Castle is meant to be a GWR Castle class. The mythical engine from the mythical series of books and films is whatever the writers and creatives at Warners want it to be. Mike Wiltshire Haha good point, I've always assumed it was meant to be a castle because of the name and because she has a love for South Wales, Forest of Dean. I think the Bachmann hogwarts set had a castle loco, wasn't available in the UK because of copy right but still Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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