Bachmann Ivatt Class 2MT 2-6-2T Old & New

[Riddles]

Has anyone who has bought the new DCC ready (or DCC Fitted) Bachmann Ivatt 2MT Tank checked to see whether the body top is interchangeable with the earlier split chassis version? I have an early split chassis one and the identity has a special significance to me and I am looking for an easy path for a DCC upgrade.

 

Any information on this would be much appreciated.

Riddles

Edited August 13, 2016 by Riddles

[Andy W]

Just tried it. Front mounting lug lines up, rear screw holes line up. What you will need to do is trim away a little of the plastic between the two rear screw pillars - which presumably represents the bunker floor - there's a void above it. This is where the decoder fits on the rechassised version.

So far the only difference I can find between the old and new bodies is that the bunker floor is already trimmed away. Build quality on my example is identical, the lining out on the tank sides is better on the new version.

As you can't even see the "bunker floor" with the body mounted on the chassis, and it is just a piece of undetailed flat black plastic, it is no loss.

Photos to follow.

 

Oh one other difference. The original body has a heavily overscale coupling hook stuck to each bufferbeam. The new one has two screw couplings (no actual thread on the screw, but quite realistic) in the accessory pack. The accessory pack also has much slimmer and more accurate steps and added cylinder drain cocks and guard irons compared to the original accessory packs, though the driver and fireman who came with some of the split chassis models are no longer there.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Andy W

[Butler Henderson]

As a guide to how long it is for models to get from the factory to the shops what is the date stamped on the packaging (usually on the inside) - will be 16xxxx being in US style- Bachmann have confirmed it is the date of production

[Andy W]

As a guide to how long it is for models to get from the factory to the shops what is the date stamped on the packaging (usually on the inside) - will be 16xxxx being in US style- Bachmann have confirmed it is the date of production

160603

[Butler Henderson]

2 months and a  bit - quicker than some other recent items then.

[darren01]

Hi

looking at the new model 41291 they have the chimney wrong for this loco. 

The locos up to 41289 had the squat LMS cimney, 41290-41299 the taller thinner/slightly tapered chimney and 41320-41329 had the taller larger diameter one (like the earlier one but stretched).
Some earlier locos were retrofitted with the later 3rd type.
This all came about to draughting tests done at Swindon on an Ivatt 2-6-0, where a longer chimney was found to improve performance. It is written that when the loco returned from Swindon to Derby the chimney by then was a hideous shape, due to the test mods, where at Derby the external shape was made more pleasing, aesthetically.
As an aside, the locos from 41290 also had the round eave cab profile and the later pattern pony truck with integral guard irons.

Also if you look at the photo they have on there website they are still showing the new model on the old chaise,confusing the issue. I did send this info to Bachmann when they announced this loco pointing the chimney out.

Darren 

Edited August 14, 2016 by darren01

[Downer]

Hi

looking at the new model 41291 they have the chimney wrong for this loco. 

The locos up to 41289 had the squat LMS cimney, 41290-41299 the taller thinner/slightly tapered chimney and 41320-41329 had the taller larger diameter one (like the earlier one but stretched).[/size]Some earlier locos were retrofitted with the later 3rd type.[/size]This all came about to draughting tests done at Swindon on an Ivatt 2-6-0, where a longer chimney was found to improve performance. It is written that when the loco returned from Swindon to Derby the chimney by then was a hideous shape, due to the test mods, where at Derby the external shape was made more pleasing, aesthetically.[/size]As an aside, the locos from 41290 also had the round eave cab profile and the later pattern pony truck with integral guard irons.[/size]

Also if you look at the photo they have on there website they are still showing the new model on the old chaise,confusing the issue. I did send this info to Bachmann when they announced this loco pointing the chimney out.

Darren

 

I also warned Bachmann about the chimney - it was acknowledged, but no change in number. I've since seen photos which suggest that 41291 had its tall narrow chimney removed at some point - pics of the engine in the south-west during the 60s show it with the normal chimney. But I agree that the model is wrong for the late 50s.

[John M Upton]

I have seven of the old ones (plus a couple of withdrawn falling apart demics) all of which I have never paid more than forty five quid for tops.  I really would like to upgrade these to the newer chassis (would have replaced them completely had it been a complete wheels upwards retool to modern standards but that is another debate) but am not going to bother as for old tooling on a new chassis the price is waaaaayyy too high. 

 

If Bachmann started selling the chassis separately (they used to do this for some types back in the day) for say thirty five to forty five quid a chassis then I would have been seriously interested.

[Riddles]

Just tried it. Front mounting lug lines up, rear screw holes line up. What you will need to do is trim away a little of the plastic between the two rear screw pillars - which presumably represents the bunker floor - there's a void above it. This is where the decoder fits on the rechassised version.

So far the only difference I can find between the old and new bodies is that the bunker floor is already trimmed away. Build quality on my example is identical, the lining out on the tank sides is better on the new version.

As you can't even see the "bunker floor" with the body mounted on the chassis, and it is just a piece of undetailed flat black plastic, it is no loss.

Photos to follow.

 

Oh one other difference. The original body has a heavily overscale coupling hook stuck to each bufferbeam. The new one has two screw couplings (no actual thread on the screw, but quite realistic) in the accessory pack. The accessory pack also has much slimmer and more accurate steps and added cylinder drain cocks and guard irons compared to the original accessory packs, though the driver and fireman who came with some of the split chassis models are no longer there.

Andy, that was SO very helpful. A "41291" with old type chassis is now on the second-hand market! It took some considerable time to pare away all of the bunker bottom, between the rear screw fixing pillars, and it is a very tight fit but it has worked. Thanks again.

 

I doubt whether Bachmann will be planning to sell the new chassis on its own and definitely not at £35 to £45. I imagine at least 80% of the cost goes into the chassis.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Riddles

[Arthur]

 

Agreed, why would they cannabalise sales of the complete new model by facilitating modellers upgrading their old Ivatt bodies on the new chassis at a cut price rate.

[JSpencer]

Agreed, why would they cannabalise sales of the complete new model by facilitating modellers upgrading their old Ivatt bodies on the new chassis at a cut price rate.

 

 

When I worked for the Signal Box, separate chassis for former ex mainline models sold very easily. Not surprising as by then (the early 1990s), the mainline versions were in general on their last legs and people wanted the better running qualities of the new chassis.

 

They were around 2/3rds of the price of a full loco.

 

By contrast, we had a hard time shifting V2, V3 and Nelson chassis and I think this is why they stopped the practice.

 

If there were not 3 USA tanks due nor those 2 Adams radials I got recently, I would probably have brought a new 2MT. Now if only they could do a BR version.

[adb968008]

When I worked for the Signal Box, separate chassis for former ex mainline models sold very easily. Not surprising as by then (the early 1990s), the mainline versions were in general on their last legs and people wanted the better running qualities of the new chassis.

 

They were around 2/3rds of the price of a full loco.

 

By contrast, we had a hard time shifting V2, V3 and Nelson chassis and I think this is why they stopped the practice.

 

If there were not 3 USA tanks due nor those 2 Adams radials I got recently, I would probably have brought a new 2MT. Now if only they could do a BR version.

Agreed, especially when sales of the jubilees and 4MTs started to wane, the bodies and tenders sold quite well too.

 

From memory, I recall selling (elsewhere) £23.95 for a chassis, £9.95 for the body and £12.50 for the tender. At the same time the whole loco would barely sell for £34.50.

 

Trouble is I doubt today a 2MT body would get more then £15, leaving the chassis at £100+

 

I was surprised the new DCC ready jubilee wasn't compatible to the older jubilee, I'd have thought there would still be a good trade in upgrading older jubilees to dcc ready, as well as some interest in swapping speaker equipped tender chassis, and people wanting the newer short firebox jubilee bodies.

Edited August 17, 2016 by adb968008

[SDJR7F88]

Not seen any pictures or footage of the new 2MT on here yet, so I though I would post a full review of my 31-440 in BR Early.

Hopefully it's of help.

 

(video thumbnail does not seem to want to work, but link to the reviw is below)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxjHs4rE1fg

Edited August 17, 2016 by SDJR7F88

[Free At Last]

Just needed the "s" to be taken out of "https".

[SDJR7F88]

Just needed the "s" to be taken out of "https".

Ah thanks for the info! That's the answer I've been looking for!  Have been wondering way it works for some video and not for others. 

[Arthur]

When I worked for the Signal Box, separate chassis for former ex mainline models sold very easily. Not surprising as by then (the early 1990s), the mainline versions were in general on their last legs and people wanted the better running qualities of the new chassis.

 

I'm not saying they wouldn't sell at the right price, I'm saying I don't see Bachmann selling the chassis separately at such a price.

[Black 5 Bear]

Having seen SDJR7F88's video review of this model, this has reinforced my previous opinion/comments on this release. The chassis looks nice, however the body is woeful, this should only have ever been released as a totally new model. Just look at the smokebox door mouldings and oversize/ill fitting handrails. Poor value for money, I certainly won't be buying one !

Edited August 17, 2016 by Black 5 Bear

[Ian Hargrave]

Having seen SDJR7F88's video review of this model, this has reinforced my previous opinion/comments on this release. The chassis looks nice, however the body is woeful, this should only have ever been released as a totally new model. Just look at the smokebox door mouldings and oversize/ill fitting handrails. Poor value for money, I certainly won't be buying one !

Oh yes...given that the new versions of the Fairburn tank are the virtually the same price.Sorry but for me this does not bear scrutiny,whatever the current market forces may be.It has to be seen to be value for money in the final analysis.Like it or not,comparisons will be made.

[The Black Hat]

Anyone had the top off for a photo just to see how much space is there for decoder and speaker?

[brushman47544]

As a guide to how long it is for models to get from the factory to the shops what is the date stamped on the packaging (usually on the inside) - will be 16xxxx being in US style- Bachmann have confirmed it is the date of production

 

I understood it was the date of production of the box, not the contents.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...given that the new versions of the Fairburn tank are the virtually the same price... Like it or not,comparisons will be made.

Had Bach phased out all the split chassis crisply between 2000 and 2005 it would have been a different story. We were still grateful then, barely able to believe that we were going to get genuine models in affordable RTR form! Sixteen years of generally good  - and better - introductions have raised the bar significantly.

 

The best of what's left in split chassis is the J39. I remotored mine with the 'nearly correct' wheelbase J11 mechanism as the old split chassis had worn through its plating: and that on its second mechanism. The old body looks OKish in well weathered form alongside the J11, J15, J50, K1, K3, O1, O2, O4 O7 etc that it regularly associates with. Bit 'soft' if looked at closely...

[phil_sutters]

I also warned Bachmann about the chimney - it was acknowledged, but no change in number. I've since seen photos which suggest that 41291 had its tall narrow chimney removed at some point - pics of the engine in the south-west during the 60s show it with the normal chimney. But I agree that the model is wrong for the late 50s.

I have a photo of 41291 from June 1965

There is a nice one with 41307 at Glastonbury in December. 

As for 41243 - there is this one 

and this one - 5.11.1964  

Edited August 20, 2016 by phil_sutters

[Butler Henderson]

I understood it was the date of production of the box, not the contents.

No I asked Bachmann and they confirmed it was the models date of production.

[Mark Hamlin]

Have just received mine in chilly NZ.

 

Have already replaced the smoke box dart with a Mainly Trains one. Am keen to add the lifting eyes. Does anyone know of an etched brass item? These have alluded me so far, have tried using black plasticard with the hole punch but an etched item would be best.

[Dunsignalling]

Oh yes...given that the new versions of the Fairburn tank are the virtually the same price.Sorry but for me this does not bear scrutiny,whatever the current market forces may be.It has to be seen to be value for money in the final analysis.Like it or not,comparisons will be made.

That's all fine and dandy if all you want is a tank engine with outside valve gear but there are plenty of us for whom a Fairburn is prototypically useless.

 

My old Bachmann Ivatt is well into its dotage and needs replacing so the new one will just have to receive some "real modelling" when I get it.

 

The only market force acting on me is that the price, and the work required, mean I won't be buying a second one.

 

John