Crowdfunded GNR N2, and Quadarts. N and OO Gauge

[hiffano]

N'Gauge in Steam intend to commission the GNR N2 class locomotive for the N gauge and OO Gauge markets 
This locomotive was designed by Sir Nigel Gresley and entered service in 1920. It is a 0-6-2t and was operated by the GNR, LNER and British Railways. They were designed for suburban passenger services, and could be seen operating out of London Kings cross, as well as Glasgow and Edinburgh. N'Gauge in Steam intend to produce this locomotive in 5 liveries dependent upon interest. Only one locomotive of this class survived into preservation, and is owned by the Gresley Society and based at the Great Central Railway. This locomotive is currently painted in GNR Green, and carries the running number 1744.

Specification: 
Fully detailed body 
DCC 6 pin decoder ready 
All wheel drive 
All wheel pickup 
NEM couplings

Livery Options: 
NR green, no 1744 as preserved at the GNR. 
LNER green. 
LNER lined black. 
LNER plain black 
BR lined black.

Pricing: (anticipated)
DCC Ready - £85*
DCC Fitted - £105*
*Prices may be subject to change as the project moves forward, this will always be communicated to you.

 

We have also decided to release Quadart coaches, with a bookset to be available of the N2 and Qudarts. Quadarts will be available in LNER Teak and BR Maroon. if there is enough interest, we will also look at different running numbers

 

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by hiffano

[Joseph_Pestell]

You might want to correct the header!

[Steven B]

Lovely choice of loco. Just needs a quad-art or two to go with it!

 

I'm guessing "all wheel drive" only applies to the driven wheels on the prototype - unless of course you're planning on making the rear pony axle powered too?

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[scottystitch]

I've never heard of N'Gauge in Steam. Who are they? Who will actually be producing the model? I could be interested in one of these.

 

Any idea on what sub-type(s) will be produced/proposed?

Edited October 3, 2016 by scottystitch

[hiffano]

You might want to correct the header!

Lol, thanks Joseph, my heads got so many initials flying round, i get them mixed up at times

[hiffano]

Lovely choice of loco. Just needs a quad-art or two to go with it!

 

I'm guessing "all wheel drive" only applies to the driven wheels on the prototype - unless of course you're planning on making the rear pony axle powered too?

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

HI Steven, Quadarts have been discussed, if this works then could be next up!. and yes, you are correct, i could have worded it better re the wheels. 

[Revolution Mike]

Hi hiffano

 

There are a couple of potentially interesting/useful threads over on the NGF that you might find helpful and where you might want to promote this project.

 

Our experience is that people like to know who they are dealing with (ie who is behind the crowdfunding and who will be manufacturing products). Feel free to ask for any help/tips on crowdfunding.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Mike

Edited October 3, 2016 by red death

[hiffano]

Hi hiffano

 

There are a couple of potentially interesting/useful threads over on the NGF that you might find helpful and where you might want to promote this project.

 

Our experience is that people like to know who they are dealing with (ie who is behind the crowdfunding and who will be manufacturing products).

 

Hope that helps,

 

Mike

Hi Mike, thank you for your comments, and I will go and have a good read of the relevant threads. This is very early days and there are a few very minor things I want to bottom out before sharing more info. 

I've found it quite interesting to date who is quick to offer advice, and who is a lot more cagey :-) 

Ultimately i'd like to think we are all in this together, but events over the weekend might prove otherwise!

 

many thanks 

 

Steve

[EHSUK2001]

Who is it to be commissioned from please? Direct from a Chinese factory or via one of the established UK based designer-producers?

 

Potential crowdfunders need confidence in the team behind a product before they commit any cash.

 

The fact that you only have a Facebook presence and not a commercial website hardly inspires confidence to be honest.

[hiffano]

Who is it to be commissioned from please? Direct from a Chinese factory or via one of the established UK based designer-producers?

 

Potential crowdfunders need confidence in the team behind a product before they commit any cash.

 

The fact that you only have a Facebook presence and not a commercial website hardly inspires confidence to be honest.

Website will be coming, and all the info will be there for everyone to see. And it will be via a known company. 

This was really an early heads up for people, and I can field a few questions, and take some suggestions on board. Everything has to start somewhere. 

[Roy L S]

Hi Hiffano

 

Saw this on Facebook and glad it is now being made visible on Forums. Along with the J50 a loco that is long overdue in N Gauge.

 

I look forward to finding out more as information is released. As I said on FB, I will definitely be in for a BR one or two if you do late and early crest, and as for a Quad-Art set, well, having ridden the only remaining set on the North Norfolk Railway behind the N2 only a couple of years ago, that would be the icing on the cake.

 

As regards "All wheel drive" if this refers to gear coupling, I think that Bachmann have very effectively demonstrated that it is not necessary in N and in fact taking my Ixion Manor which has this as an example (beautiful model in every other respect) with the over large holes in rods needed to accommodate the slack in the gears you do get the rather odd situation where the wheels move before the rods and the rods can slope one way or the other!

 

In a recent magazine when extolling the virtues of the geared coupled wheels on the lovely 00 DJM J94, it was suggested that the gear coupling meant greater haulage capacity which is surely utter tosh? The two factors influencing haulage capacity are traction (i.e. weight and distribution thereof) and gearing, how the wheels have power transmitted to them is irrelevant. What it may do is allow for finer rods...

 

Anyway, I am really delighted that you are looking into this and will keep an eye out for more information..

 

Regards

 

Roy

[D9020 Nimbus]

All-wheel drive is surely not relevant for a steam locomotive where the wheels are connected anyway by the coupling rods; I'd suggest you might want to rethink this (there seem to have been some issues with the DJM J94 in this respect).

[hiffano]

All-wheel drive is surely not relevant for a steam locomotive where the wheels are connected anyway by the coupling rods; I'd suggest you might want to rethink this (there seem to have been some issues with the DJM J94 in this respect).

hey Guys, thanks for the thoughts, much appreciated :-)

[DJM Dave]

All-wheel drive is surely not relevant for a steam locomotive where the wheels are connected anyway by the coupling rods; I'd suggest you might want to rethink this (there seem to have been some issues with the DJM J94 in this respect).

I'll take,'some issues' when I've sold 3000+ models thank you. (Although I will always strive for no issues at all).

Cheers

Dave

[Roy L S]

I wasn't criticising the 00 J94, it seems to have been justifiably popular from what I have seen.

 

I was just making the point that gear coupling steam loco driving wheels isn't a necessity, adds complication and brings with it it's own issues. It certainly doesn't in itself improve haulage capacity.

 

I think the latest BachFarish coreless motor loco drives illustrate this point perfectly. Arguably it represents the current "state of the art" for British N steam, mine are all beautifully smooth and controllable runners and all rely on rods to transmit drive to the other wheels.

 

Roy

[hiffano]

Hey all, sorry it's been quiet, i've been rather patiently awaiting some quite importantinformation which is relevant to the project, but has so far not been forthcoming. Rest assured I have now set a  deadline and will update accordingly. 

[hiffano]

Hi Everyone. Just a wee update. I'd been awaiting a reply from the owners of the N2 locomotive regarding access for a 3D scan. The organisation has a meeting coming up, after which hopefully we will have the go ahead. This would be the point at which we can go all out to start raising awareness, and taking expressions of interest, and deposits. 
We could have pushed ahead using images and drawings, but we want the best for you guys, and a scan will improve the accuracy of the model. We are that little bit closer to being able to do this.

on the downside. I am sure you are aware that several of the big model manufacturers are pushing up prices as much as 20%. At this time, we have not had anything to suggest we would have to increase our proposed price, as our quotes were in GBP and not Dollars. Sadly however, we cannot dictate the movement of the pound sterling in the international marketplace and it may at some point have an effect on us. rest assured we will update you the minute anything changes, and will do our best to minimise any impact.

Many thanks

[hiffano]

So, today, some pretty cool Line drawings of the N2 have been sent to the manufacturers for a more definitive Tooling and production Quote. I'm hoping to be able to do the same with the Quadarts once I can obtain the drawings. 
There is a meeting towards the end of this month to ratify the agreement to access the Locomotive for scans, and get some technical overview to make sure the detail is as good as it can be. I know I know, people want to officially note interest, order, give money etc, but until I am 100% it is nailed on, that is on hold!. We are 99% of the way there though.

[hiffano]

ok all, it's taken some time getting new pricing, the £, Brexit, Chinese new year etc. 

We now have tooling and manufacturing costs for an N gauge N2....

and now we  also have costs for an OO gauge N2, and Quadarts in both scales. 

 

Once i have digested the figures, messed my head up working out VAT, claiming back VAT, net present value on tooling costs and other financial type stuff. I will finally be able to start taking expressions of interest. 

[MrSimon]

Any chance of a picture or anything?

[Kestrel]

ok all, it's taken some time getting new pricing, the £, Brexit, Chinese new year etc. 

We now have tooling and manufacturing costs for an N gauge N2....

and now we  also have costs for an OO gauge N2, and Quadarts in both scales. 

 

Once i have digested the figures, messed my head up working out VAT, claiming back VAT, net present value on tooling costs and other financial type stuff. I will finally be able to start taking expressions of interest. 

As Hornby already do the OO gauge N2, why don't you ignore that and concentrate on the OO gauge quadarts and the N gauge ones?

[45568]

As Hornby already do the OO gauge N2, why don't you ignore that and concentrate on the OO gauge quadarts and the N gauge ones?

Absolutely agree! I have three Hornby N2, detailed up which I would not replace. However, with Kirk Quad-Art kits selling for north of 100GBP when they appear on Ebay, and the far greater numbers of 4mm modellers who already have an N2 on their roster, it would make good business sense to make the money on the 4mm coaches first to fund the 2mm loco. Count me in for at least one set.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[hiffano]

The pricing has been done and the OO's will be offered out, if they don't meet targets for interest they can be dropped. The Hornby model to my knowledge is still the old Airfix tooling. I'm sure some have been detailed by their owners, but not everyone is capable of that. We will soon find out what is and isn't viable. 

I like your thinking though guys. The Quadarts "should"certainly be the biggest sellers, they however also have the highest cost to cover for the tooling. 

[chris p bacon]

I'm intrigued as to how you can estimate costs of tooling and production without some sample drawings showing the level of complexity and detail. You might not get enough interest if the detail is basic but then the price might be exhorbitant for highly detailed.  How are you going to articulate the Quads so they look a  realistically tight coupling between coaches but can negotiate tight radii? What level of finish is the Teak going to be.

 

Having done some calculations for the production of coaching stock in the past, you'll be looking at £4-500 (if you're lucky) for the Quad arts as you won't get the numbers to get them down to the £50 a unit which seems to be the current. One of the problems now surfacing is the application of teak finish. You only have to look at the latest Hornby offerings to see how they are cutting costs on the livery application (if it wasn't cost cutting they'd have recalled them) compared to the teaks they produced a few years ago.

 

Normally I'd say I'd be interested in a Quad art as I model the GN, but there is no way I would sign up to something where after 6 months there is very little detail and the originator is an unknown anonymous user name on a forum.

DJM and Revolution (to name 2) don't produce anything I want, but I know who they are and what they are producing in great detail. Without meaning to be rude this just strikes me as a different way of "wishlisting" and I doubt it will go anywhere beyond a bit of froth.

[Clearwater]

I agree with Dave - Chris p bacon. Whilst I support the initiative and you write credibly, it would be useful to understand your personal background and credentials in delivering this type of product. If I was investing in any company, and this is an investment of sorts, I'd expect the owner, who presumably is looking to make some money here, to be upfront about their identity and their experience to allow those of us who you want to part with their hard earned cash to do their own due diligence.

 

Part of that diligence is understanding the overall economics. How many need to sell for each stage to go ahead, where does any gap funding come etc so as the investor knows what risk they are taking when they part with cash for their upfront order.

 

I'm not wishing to sound negative. In fact I'm envious you have the courage to take this on. However, there needs to be a business plan routed in reality and addressing the questions above is the first step towards that.

 

David