26power Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Those chains! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The link is correct but does not work! Try below it looks the same! http://www.oxfordrail.com/76/OR76WW.htm Are they planning to decorate the Tank more? It's far too plain even for something that just left the factory. The browning machine gun would be black or gun metal for a start. Dark blue should appear on the vision slits. Even just out of the factory, there would still be markings of one kind or another. The tank looks like an assembled not painted Airfix kit in these photos. I know Oxford Diecast normally does a lot better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Are they planning to decorate the Tank more? It's far too plain even for something that just left the factory. The browning machine gun would be black or gun metal for a start. Dark blue should appear on the vision slits. Even just out of the factory, there would still be markings of one kind or another. The tank looks like an assembled not painted Airfix kit in these photos. I know Oxford Diecast normally does a lot better. There is a quote on the Oxford blog page for 3 June 2017 which implies these may be unliveried. "Those of you who follow Oxford Rail will be aware that we are tooling the Sherman as a companion for the Warwell, in the Oxford Rail range it comes as it arrived into the UK during World War II as new. In the Diecast range they are liveried up with authentic markings. So the Rail version has a large box on the back." https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/blogs/news There is a monochrome image here which may support the no livery idea. Scroll down the page a little. http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/M4_Sherman.php And an image with the box. http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/military/ww2-50-ton-warwell-2.htm Edited June 5, 2017 by mikeharvey22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 There is a quote on the Oxford blog page for 3 June 2017 which implies these may be unliveried. "Those of you who follow Oxford Rail will be aware that we are tooling the Sherman as a companion for the Warwell, in the Oxford Rail range it comes as it arrived into the UK during World War II as new. In the Diecast range they are liveried up with authentic markings. So the Rail version has a large box on the back." https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/blogs/news There is a monochrome image here which may support the no livery idea. Scroll down the page a little. http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/M4_Sherman.php And an image with the box. http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/military/ww2-50-ton-warwell-2.htm Ok, but none the less the vision slits on the cupolas should be a dark blue glass. The browning machine guns were not fitted when new (this model has all 3 in place). And your photo plus these in the link below show a band round the turret and small triangle markings. http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/military/ww2-50-ton-warwell-1.htm Still easy enough to add markings. Removing browns (3 of them) will take a little work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 If the tank was being delivered from North America, then it's very unlikely that it would carry any markings. Vehicles would be brought in to a port on the western side of the UK, then cleared away quickly to an inland depot to be checked over, fitted with machine guns, and finally painted up with unit markings. There are contemporary photos in 'Freight Wagons and Loads in Service with the GWR and British Rail Western Region' of both Shermans loaded on Warwells (Figures 292- 296) and Lee/Grants loaded on railway-owned Crocodile G well wagons ( Figures 291/2). Both types only have their main guns fitted, and have no radio antennae or markings. The only apparent marking, on the Shermans, is a small painted triangle on the lower hull sides, just above the centre trunnions. Could this indicate the centre-line for sling purposes? The main gun on the Sherman is depressed to about 5 degrees below the horizontal, and appears to be fixed to a rectangular support, itself attached to the lower part of the hull front. This looks to be a temporary fitting, as I've never seen it on a Sherman in active service. What are the boxes to the rear of the turrets? The Shermans in Russell's book are all so fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) I have to wonder whether or not they got dull blue US serial numbers painted on the side like here: http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a4/m4a4_variants.html As delivered, they would be sealed up, dull looking and missing many fittings like machine guns. Another image: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/464433780308191308/ Edited June 6, 2017 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Nice to see some progress, my various Southern goods locos are ready and waiting =) last year I was disappointed at the lack of WW2 military transportation, now several are coming at once! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD1995 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Are they planning to decorate the Tank more? It's far too plain even for something that just left the factory. The browning machine gun would be black or gun metal for a start. Dark blue should appear on the vision slits. Even just out of the factory, there would still be markings of one kind or another. The tank looks like an assembled not painted Airfix kit in these photos. I know Oxford Diecast normally does a lot better. By the looks of it I think it's just a sample at the moment, it doesn't have any of the colour detailing added to it such as the rubber wheels, brownings and vision slits. The box on the back looks to just be coloured resin and not yet painted as it has a tarpaulin which I can't see being the same brown as the box. As this is representing a sherman on arrival to Britain I wonder if the box on the back held the brownings and relevant interior fittings such as gun sight's to prevent damage to them if fitted inside? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exet1095 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Machine guns are not permanent fixtures on AFVs. When not out on operations or exercise, they live in the armoury. They can (and are) used dismounted as well as on the wagon, and skill-at-arms training on them is mostly conducted off the vehicle. Main armament is different, as the vehicle is typically built around it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Indeed you would not want to leave machine guns on vehicles during transport. They are quite easy to un-clip and remove. The same would apply to ammo (especially for ammo! Which has strict temperature and storage conditions that cannot be controlled in a sealed up tank). I have no idea what the tarpaulin covered crates would contain. There is whole host of equipment which gets clipped or bolted on to the exterior of the tank (such as lights, cables etc). Difficult to imagine they would need a crate that big unless they were heavily protected from the salty marine elements. The crate also covers the engine deck, which has plenty slits to allow air to enter or escape (keep the engine cool), that would certainly need to be sealed for maritime transport. If the tank is a plain M4, a Firefly Ic could easily follow, however it might be a M4A2 (Sherman III) of their main range which the British received plenty of, but none of these were turned in Firefly's. The chains on the warwell would be attached to the tank, however I think we may be too hopeful if we expect Oxford to go that far. Edited June 7, 2017 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 An elevated view that might be of interest: c.1970 - Oxford. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/34321412144/in/dateposted/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Hattons' Warwell release is on the way to us now... my only question is why have Oxford done the MS.1 model in one colour scheme and Hattons in another...? My knowledge on Warwells isn't that good so can anyone explain why this is? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Hattons' Warwell release is on the way to us now... my only question is why have Oxford done the MS.1 model in one colour scheme and Hattons in another...? My knowledge on Warwells isn't that good so can anyone explain why this is? And different buffers too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I received an email from Oxford today saying the first one is due next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I received an email from Oxford today saying the first one is due next week. Whilst I'm looking forward to seeing these along with Hattons' releases, I think I will have to look at Oxford's in person. The bufferheads look like they all round rather flat on the top as per the prototypes... Also does anyone have an idea as to why Hattons and Oxford have done two different running liveries for the Grouping examples? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted June 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Whilst I'm looking forward to seeing these along with Hattons' releases, I think I will have to look at Oxford's in person. The bufferheads look like they all round rather flat on the top as per the prototypes... Also does anyone have an idea as to why Hattons and Oxford have done two different running liveries for the Grouping examples? If you look at the left hand end the buffers look oval, not round or flat. As you say, I don't think this is right. Edit: looking at photos, oval might be ok on some wagons. Roy Edited June 20, 2017 by Roy Langridge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Twio sets of Warwells at the same Time! Between them, one can certainly make a big train at the same time. Come on Bachmann, where are those Warflats ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 If you look at the left hand end the buffers look oval, not round or flat. As you say, I don't think this is right. Edit: looking at photos, oval might be ok on some wagons. Roy Looking at the photos in my email, the buffers are definately oval. When compared however to the prototype (Figure 290) in GWR Freight Wagons and Loads in service on the Great Western Railway and British Rail Western Region, they should be fully round with the top of the buffer cut off. I will however hold off judgement until I see them in the flesh as like with the Dean Goods, the model looks like a prototype rather than the final product... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Pleased they're coming out soon! But Between these, the early Hattons ones and early E4, my wallet is taking a beating! But it is making December less expensive! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) And different buffers too!Tim at Oxford replied to my email on this,"Good Morning Paul, The tooling suite allows for us to use several buffer types on this wagon. So once we finalise the liveries we will select the correct buffer for it." Note the modern ones, road roller and 'SR revised' ones are in the second batch due in Q4 2017 Edited June 21, 2017 by PaulRhB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Tim at Oxford replied to my email on this, "Good Morning Paul, The tooling suite allows for us to use several buffer types on this wagon. So once we finalise the liveries we will select the correct buffer for it." Note the modern ones, road roller and 'SR revised' ones are in the second batch due in Q4 2017 That is good news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 . No one seems to have noticed that the first Oxford Warwell has arrived at (sort of irony) Hattons ; http://www.hattons.co.uk/254721/Oxford_Rail_OR76WW001_Warwell_A_Ministry_Of_War_Transport_MS1/StockDetail.aspx . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 . No one seems to have noticed that the first Oxford Warwell has arrived at (sort of irony) Hattons ; http://www.hattons.co.uk/254721/Oxford_Rail_OR76WW001_Warwell_A_Ministry_Of_War_Transport_MS1/StockDetail.aspx . And it still has the wrong buffers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted June 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 28, 2017 And it still has the wrong buffers! If the prototype of this Warwell didn't have the oval buffers, then that is yet another own goal scored Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 28, 2017 As Oxford say they have the correct buffer drop them a line to ask for replacements Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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