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IZA Cargowaggon twin van from Revolution Trains

Revolution Cargowaggon Ferry Van



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#76 steam-driven boy

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:49

Hi,

I couldn't find a link to these wagons via the "Projects" menu on the Revolution Trains' website. Does a dedicated page not exist for these wagons yet or did I just miss it?

 

 

Steven B.

I hadn't been able to find the order page or links even though I had visited them before - thinking my usual "I'm looking at it but can't see it" I Googled and amongst the possibles found:

http://www.revolutio...ggon-twins-iza/

Order placed this morning, although I had to go back because I'd forgotten the Perrier...  :scratchhead:

 

Regards, Gerry.


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#77 Ben A

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 10:39

Hello all,

CADs have been received for the Cargowaggon twin vans with working flashing tail lamp. The lamp is a small moulding, highlighted in blue, with a light guide feed from inside the wagon where the PCB and battery holder are.

IMG_6041.JPG

A few minor corrections have also been made following feedback from the first version. For example, the handbrakewheels are now on the A-wagon only.

IMG_6045.JPG

We also asked them to improve the look of the coupler between the wagons; the new version is visually an improvement though I have asked them to double check its predicted strength, so we can be sure it will not distort in use.

IMG_6043.JPG

For more information and images please see our website.

Cheers

Ben A.

Edited by Ben A, 28 July 2017 - 11:40 .

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#78 Steadfast

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:52

Hi Ben,

Lovely bit of detail around the brake rigging between the blocks, a nice touch not often modelled. I really like the mid-vehicle coupling too, definitely looks the part.

A couple of questions regarding the tail lamp. Firstly, where will the switch be located, will the body need to be removed for turning it on and off each time? Secondly, something other manufacturers and after market suppliers have struggled with is the flash rate. It's quite distinctive in that the flash is off for a much larger portion of the cycle than it is on, and is hopefully something that can be replicated with the circuit board.

Jump to just after 3 minutes in to see a good example, on the back of the RMC hoppers

 

Jo



#79 Ben A

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 12:04


Hi Jo,

I am expecting the switch to be located on the underside, though the body will have to be unclipped to replace the batteries.

In terms of the flash rate - thanks for that video. We haven't discussed that with them yet as right now we are just focussed on getting the shape and couplers etc right.

Cheers

Ben A.

#80 47475

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 17:52

Is there any decision yet on whether the earlier liveries will be made with the flashing tail light? I hope to order soon but clarification on this would be most appreciated.



#81 red death

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 18:44

Hi 47475

I'm afraid only in the revised livery (though the revised livery came pretty early on in their life).

Cheers Mike

#82 Padishar Creel

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 08:45

Hallo,

has this project surpassed the minimum orders and will go ahead, or is it like the 321s and is questionable?

Thanks in advance

es grüßt

pc



#83 Ben A

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 21:27


Hi PC,

Yes, this model is doing fine. CADs are approved and the next stage is tooling.

Cheers

Ben A.
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#84 47475

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 14:03

9 x PFA container flats, 4 x Class B Tanks on order. Next up I'll be ordering 3 of these. RevolutioN are certainly producing some excellent wagons.


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#85 red death

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 14:17

Ben and I might be a little bit obsessed with wagons!

 

Cheers, Mike


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#86 Ben A

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:25


Hello all,

For anyone attending the Warley National Model Railway Exhibtion at the NEC this weekend we will have the first moulded samples of the Cargowaggon twin vans on the Revolution Trains stand, B029.

I will post photographs after the weekend here and on our website, though other photos may appear beforehand of course.

Cheers

Ben A.
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#87 johnshutts

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 19:51


And very good they're looking too

John

#88 Ben A

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 19:03

Hello all,

As promised here are a couple of images of the first samples of the IZA Cargowaggon twins from Revolution Trains.

IMG_0148.JPG

Although two separate vans, the wagon is classed as a single vehicle with a permanent coupling between vehicles and the brake gear split across the set such that they cannot be operated independently. This was to secure European grant funding in the 1980s when they were built. [Note - see post 89 below for more accurate explanation]

 

The differences in the underframes are represented, with two air tanks on one wagon and both handbrakwheels on the other - though one of the brakewheels seems to have vanished during the show...

IMG_0152.JPG

These wagons were announced in June at the DEMU Showcase, but thanks to huge support we have already completed CAD and tooling, and are now at the sampling stage. If all goes well with the livery samples (and the colours are the same on all variants - it's just the lettering that differs) then we should be on course to close the order book and move to production early next year.

For more pictures, information and to place an order see our website.

Cheers

Ben A.


Edited by Ben A, 29 November 2017 - 10:42 .

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#89 mikeharvey22

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:35

Hello all,



Although two separate vans, the wagon is classed as a single vehicle with a permanent coupling between vehicles and the brake gear split across the set such that they cannot be operated independently. This was to secure European grant funding in the 1980s when they were built. 

Cheers

Ben A.

 

I have been searching through my memories of when these wagons were introduced and why they are 2 x 2 axle wagons permanently coupled. Rather than it being a grant funding issue I think it was due to the way railway tariffs were calculated at the time. Shipping a 4 axle wagon was cheaper per tonne than shipping a 2 x 2 axle wagons. The 2 x two axle contrivance gave the benefit of the 4 axle tariff plus making the wagon more useful for international traffic to the UK because the two axle wagon could be wider than an equivalent length 4 axle wagon where the centre throw and end throw on curves limited the width more in the UK structure gauge which is much narrower below solebar level, as well as being narrower overall than the continental gauges. So the 2 x 2 axle wagon had a longer and wider load space, and benefitted from the lower per tonne tariff.


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#90 Ben A

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:44

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for that - very helpful. Rather than modify my original post, I think it makes more sense to draw attention in it to your more accurate explanation, as I have.

 

I think when painted up these models are going to look very nice indeed - this wagon has always fascinated me with its twin arrangement, and the Cargowaggon lettering split across the pair.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


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#91 mikeharvey22

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:58

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for that - very helpful. Rather than modify my original post, I think it makes more sense to draw attention in it to your more accurate explanation, as I have.

 

I think when painted up these models are going to look very nice indeed - this wagon has always fascinated me with its twin arrangement, and the Cargowaggon lettering split across the pair.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Just an aside about design ingenuity in that 1980s era. There were quite a number of designers across the whole of Europe trying to extract a quart from a pint pot to make the rail option financially more attractive. In the UK there was also a strong push on the Holy Grail of making road/rail transfer of unitised goods easier and cheaper. So there were prototypes of HGVs with loading mechanism on board. Kalmar's system was used on Speedlink Distribution's Minilink and Maxilink demonstrators. Tiger Rail's Trailer Train used modified road trailers on conventional bogies (GPS?). Malcolm Ord at Tiphook Rail designed a two axle piggyback wagon which exploited all the maximum and minimum limitations of the UIC two axle wagon length limits. The design later became the core of the original Charterail concept. Similar efforts were applied to bulk cargos especially with the use of aluminium in structures to reduce tare weight and increase payload, lower weight bogies such as the LTF25, and better use of the load length in hopper wagons. The design adopted recently by Drax for their biomass wagons is an extrapolation of an aluminium bodied design prototype developed by Procor using Standard Wagon LTF25 bogies. This was the first UK bogie wagon design I saw which had a hopper and a discharge gate between the bogie and the headstock.


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#92 Fat Controller

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 17:49

The twin-wagons also had a higher permissible loading per square metre of floor- by a factor of two, IIRC. This used to be on either the RFd Data sheet, or on the original Cargowaggon one.


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#93 Ben A

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 20:25

Hello Mike, Brian,

 

The advantages of shorter wagons for loading gauge clearance is familar but the comment about loading/sq metre has me slghtly perplexed.

 

Apologies for being dumb, but isn't the weight a function of the maximum axle loading, and the tare.  So in this case is a single axle on a van able to take a higher load than a single axle on a bogie, since both bogie wagons and the twins have four axles in total?

 

Or am I misinterpreting the point?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.



#94 Fat Controller

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 20:31

Hello Mike, Brian,

 

The advantages of shorter wagons for loading gauge clearance is familar but the comment about loading/sq metre has me slghtly perplexed.

 

Apologies for being dumb, but isn't the weight a function of the maximum axle loading, and the tare.  So in this case is a single axle on a van able to take a higher load than a single axle on a bogie, since both bogie wagons and the twins have four axles in total?

 

Or am I misinterpreting the point?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

The load per square metre is to do with the deflection of the floor- the greater the distance between the supporting points, be it bogie or axle-centres, the greater the deflection. Many bogie wagons actually have a slight upward bow towards the centre to take account of this.


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#95 Ben A

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 20:41

Hi Brian,

 

Ah - that makes sense.  Thanks for the explanation. 

 

Such bowing is exactly the sort of thing that if depicted on a model would look unrealistic!  I am glad to say the floor units on our twin models are straight...

 

cheers

 

Ben A.



#96 Fat Controller

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 21:02

Hi Brian,

 

Ah - that makes sense.  Thanks for the explanation. 

 

Such bowing is exactly the sort of thing that if depicted on a model would look unrealistic!  I am glad to say the floor units on our twin models are straight...

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

For some years, there was a BNA (or perhaps BMA) wagon 'crippled' at East Usk Yard, Newport; someone had put too much weight at the centre-line, so that the trussing was almost touching the rail-head.

Returning to ferry wagons- a typical bogie ferry wagon can take a load of about 63 tonnes; however, loading length is slightly less than 21 metres, so only 40 metre-square pallets, carrying one tonne, can be carried in one layer. If you 'double-stack' the pallets to accommodate the extra 23 tonnes, then the wagon is carrying more than 1 tonne per square metre. Using 2-axle wagons, with a higher 'point-loading', will allow you to load a second layer. The two-axle wagons also have a longer loadable area, at about 12.5 metres per wagon, or 25 m per pair.


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#97 The Bigbee Line

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 21:14

I stopped off for a coffee today and met up with Ben A.  He had the test versions of the twin van.  I was most impressed with the finesse of the model.  Particularly the ingenious coupling between the 2 halves.  I'm looking forward to seeing the painted versions when they arrive.  If I was modelling N it would be a 'must have' for me, having had experience with them since the first day they arrived in the UK via the Train Ferry at Dover.

 

TWIN - IMG_8147.jpg


Edited by The Bigbee Line, 04 December 2017 - 08:16 .

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#98 The Bigbee Line

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 21:14

Another view showing all the underframe detail.  The wheels shown are just for testing purposes with the test shots.  The production model will have RP25 profile wheelsets...

 

TWIN IMG_8148.jpg .


Edited by The Bigbee Line, 04 December 2017 - 08:19 .

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#99 Ben A

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 17:35



Hi Ernie,

It was great to meet you - and thanks once again for all the help you've given us. I am confident the model is significantly better because of your hugely useful input and assistance!

Cheers

Ben A.
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#100 porkie

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 00:32

Hells bell's that's impressive.

They look superb ben. Looking forward to seeing your decorated version

Phil
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