Parkside wagons + LMS buffers

[57xx]

Hi Dean, I've been following the thread and reading what people have said regarding our buffers, mostly correct. All our buffers have a 2mm tail apart from B020 which has a 1.6mm tail this was to differentiate it from the very similar B006. The tail can vary slightly in diameter due to the moulding process, casting metal isn't an exact science.

Many people don't bother but I like to rub the buffer face with an emery board and then polish with a 3m pad in a circular motion ( a fine abrasive pad like a scouring pad).

 

I have a nice old battery powered drill with a small chuck that can hold the tail of the buffers. A few seconds on a piece of 800 grade wet/dry gets them nicely buffed.

[aardvark]

Hi Dean, I've been following the thread and reading what people have said regarding our buffers, mostly correct. All our buffers have a 2mm tail apart from B020 which has a 1.6mm tail this was to differentiate it from the very similar B006. The tail can vary slightly in diameter due to the moulding process, casting metal isn't an exact science.

Many people don't bother but I like to rub the buffer face with an emery board and then polish with a 3m pad in a circular motion ( a fine abrasive pad like a scouring pad).

 

Assembling Parkside wagon frames, yes I do it just like the picture above but with 26 mm axles, it ensures that the wheelsets will be a good fit and not rattle about and cause mystery derailments. When you next order buffers just say you're needing some axles and I'll pop a few in the order.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks.

 

Awesome, Dave!  I have to say that you are a delight to order from: your willing support and information have been invaluable to this beginner!

[aardvark]

Assembling Parkside wagon frames, yes I do it just like the picture above but with 26 mm axles, it ensures that the wheelsets will be a good fit and not rattle about and cause mystery derailments.

 

One of my (endless) questions: I'd presumed that 26mm axles were shorter than the norm, so as to ensure a tight fit of the final axle in it's bearings, but I measure the wheels that came with the kit  (Romford's?) as 26mm point-to-point.  Since I'm absolutely sure davefrk knows what he's talking about, then I must conclude that I am missing something.

 

 

Anyone?

 

cheers!

Dean

[micked]

One of my (endless) questions: I'd presumed that 26mm axles ...

 

Anyone?

 

cheers!

Dean

 

 

I remember wondering about different axle lengths a couple of months back when buying wheels for a Cambrian wagon, and came across this on RMWeb:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117242-what-wagon-wheels-are-these-256mm-axle-length/

 

I decided after reading to use Romfords/Markits on all my wagons

 

Probably not much help, but I found it interesting.

 

Mick

[cctransuk]

One of my (endless) questions: I'd presumed that 26mm axles were shorter than the norm, so as to ensure a tight fit of the final axle in it's bearings, but I measure the wheels that came with the kit  (Romford's?) as 26mm point-to-point.  Since I'm absolutely sure davefrk knows what he's talking about, then I must conclude that I am missing something.

 

P1120816.JPG

 

Anyone?

 

cheers!

Dean

 

Not sure what you're asking.

 

All you have to do is recess (or not) the bearings into the W-irons to suit the axle length that you are using.

 

Shorter axles - no recess (or even add spacing washers made from thin styrene sheet); longer axles - counter-bore the back of the W-iron with a drill larger than the flange of the bearing, so that the bearings are far enough into the W-irons that they are not splayed-out and gripping the axle points.

 

A little trial and error is all that is required.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[jwealleans]

Since you were kind enough to reference my photo on the previous page, would it help if I stepped you through how I approach fitting wheels to plastic kits?

 

Attach one solebar, without bearings. Allow this to set. This is your reference point, so ensure that it is positioned as accurately as you can.

 

Once set, you can test fit bearings, wheels and the other solebar until you're happy that everything is straight and square. Then assemble and glue according to your own preference. I use 51L waisted bearings on almost all my kits, but they allow the axle to sit s little deeper in the cup, so on some Parkside and Cambrian minerals I'm building at the moment I mixed them with the supplied Parkside (Markits, I think) bearings. The wagon sits very slightly to one side of centre on the rails but it isn't apparent.

 

There are alight variations between each manufacturers' bearings, so it's often a case of finding a combination which works. If your second solebar ends up canted in at a ridiculous angle then you can use small offcuts of plastic sheet with holes drilled as washers to pack behind the bearings and position the W irons further apart.

 

I hope that's clear. If not, you can read through the Parkside brake van again on this forum and see whether that helps.

[aardvark]

Not sure what you're asking.

 

John, that's a reasonable observation: as a beginner, I find myself often not understanding the question that I am asking.

 

In this case, I think I misunderstood davefrk's comment re: 26mm axles to mean that he uses axles that are a tad shorter than the the target wheeled axles, and hence that the shorter axles cause the W-irons to be positioned slightly closer together, and hence hold the wheeled axles firmly without slop.  Having posted and read the replies, I think I now understand it to mean that he uses the axles that are the same size as the target wheeled axles, which seems obvious, excepting, as micked points out, not all axles are created equal.

 

Since you were kind enough to reference my photo on the previous page, would it help if I stepped you through how I approach fitting wheels to plastic kits?

 

Thanks Jonathan, it is indeed most helpful!  Thanks also for previously posting that pic, which seemed to pull everything together that the other posters were saying above.

 

The quality of your work is both inspirational and aspirational.  I await hearing back from Brassmasters, then I will be (carefully) following your description.

[davefrk]

Hi Dean, yes 26mm axles are the norm, Gibson, Markits, Ultrascale, Kean are all on 26mm axles, but they will supply shorter axles on request. If you order any standard wheels from these suppliers they will be on 26mm axles. Older RTR can have 25 or 25.5mm and that's where a 'truck tuner' type tool is used to deepen the holes in the frames though some RTR are so sloppy that even the standard 26mm axles are slack. I still have a few of the very old Jackson (now Markits) wheels on longer axles varying from 26.5 to 28mm.

Modern Hornby and Bachmann have metal wheels on 26mm axles though on some early stuff they were shorter and Mainline Railways from Palitoy could be anything from 25 to 26mm depending on the model.

Having the axles a good fit doesn't mean tight, they should be able to spin but not move from side to side by much otherwise the wagon can sit lop sided and would have more of a tendency to derail especially on points.

I'm told that one or two of the 'new' RTR manufacturers haven't yet grasped the idea of the standard 26mm axle length and have made certain wagons with odd sizes of axles, plonkers....

Anyway, I hope that helps.

 

Dave Franks.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just to muddy the waters even further, all of the following can be variable depending on the manufacturer.

Axle length.

Cone angle on end of axle.

Cone angle on bearing.

Depth of bearing recess.

Shoulder diameter.

Shoulder thickness.

Depth of bearing behind top hat.

That's before allowing for waisted, plain etc type bearings.

Basically, although the difference can only be a few thou here and there, a mixing of axles and bearing can have an effect on the successful building and smooth running of rolling stock.

Factor in the variables of wheel dimensions and it's a wonder we get anything to run!

 

Mike.

[Ray H]

With apologies to the OP, I wonder if I may ask a question or two on this thread, the answers to which may be of benefit to other readers/beginners.

 

The various comments about the Parkside kits are most welcome and something that makes me wish I'd found this thread before I started on the wagon for I found that the solebars weren't a good fit into the recesses in the ends of the buffer beam - the brass wheel bearing seemed a good fit in the axle boxes so I did'n't bother to improve their fitment. I'll know next time.

 

I've recently been building a couple of wagon kits. One is a Parkside PC19, vacuum fitted mineral wagon, the other a Ratio 12T box van. Both languished unopened in the drawer for a few year. These are the first rolling stock kits that I've built for best part of fifty years.

 

Is it normal practice to have to remove what I presume are moulding ridges on the top side of the solebars (and on various edges of other parts of both kits)?

 

The supplied plastic buffers with each kit strike me a fairly flimsy and ideal candidates for replacement. Lanarkshire Models seem to feature frequently as suppliers of buffers and their website sure does seem to list a wide variety. Their B009 looks suitable for the Parkside wagon but I can't see anything that seems suitable for the Ratio van. My layout is based around the early (19) sixties if that makes a difference. Can anyone offer a suggestion?

 

I'm hoping to make several Parkside kits to provide variations from the seemingly similar RTR models in my freight trains. Would the Lanarkshire Models B003 be a suitable item for me to have (several) in stock in readiness for instant replacements?

 

Thanks.

[jwealleans]

For a vac fitted wagon 1' 8" buffers were generally the norm, but I'm not an expert on BR era rolling stock.

 

I'm not familiar enough with the Ratio range to know what the 12T van you refer to is a model of.  Can you post the kit number?

 

I've just make some Parkside mineral wagons and used B003 (unfitted wagons) and B039 for a French cupboard door type.  They make a difference to the kits. 

 

Moulding ridges - depend on the age and quality of the mould, but yes, it's not unusual to have to remove them.  I use a large (12") coarse flat file which lies on the workbench and I then hold the piece and slide it backwards and forwards over the surface.  It's easier to keep it square that way.

 

Parkside also don't supply vac pipes in their kits (maybe PECO will in future?) so yuo'll need to source those for fitted vehicles.  51L/Wizard do a good selection as do MJT.

[Ray H]

I believe the Ratio kit number is 591.

 

Thanks for your response and for reminding me about the vac pipes.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Dave is very helpful with sorting out the appropriate buffers, a PM will elucidate the information you require.

He also does vac pipes.

 

Mike.

Edited for the afterthought.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Enterprisingwestern

[Enterprisingwestern]

For a vac fitted wagon 1' 8" buffers were generally the norm, but I'm not an expert on BR era rolling stock.

 

I'm not familiar enough with the Ratio range to know what the 12T van you refer to is a model of.  Can you post the kit number?

 

I've just make some Parkside mineral wagons and used B003 (unfitted wagons) and B039 for a French cupboard door type.  They make a difference to the kits. 

 

Moulding ridges - depend on the age and quality of the mould, but yes, it's not unusual to have to remove them.  I use a large (12") coarse flat file which lies on the workbench and I then hold the piece and slide it backwards and forwards over the surface.  It's easier to keep it square that way.

 

Parkside also don't supply vac pipes in their kits (maybe PECO will in future?) so yuo'll need to source those for fitted vehicles.  51L/Wizard do a good selection as do MJT.

 

I concur with the removing of the mould line, it will definitely allow the solebars to sit flatter on the underframe, just don't go too mad, stop at the top lip of the solebar and ensure an equal amount off each one to ensure the wagon sits square.

 

Mike.

[Porcy Mane]

I'm hoping to make several Parkside kits to provide variations from the seemingly similar RTR models in my freight trains. Would the Lanarkshire Models B003 be a suitable item for me to have (several) in stock in readiness for instant replacements?

If you are just getting back into kit building a few B003 16" 1'6'' and B004 18" 1'81/2'' wouldn't come in wrong.

You can get bogged down sometimes if trying to get every detail right for your chosen period of modelling.

 

Taking your Ratio 591 as an example if you take a look through Paul Bartletts photos at:

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srvan

and you will see there is a multitude of variations.

Basic rule of thumb is:

Unfitted: Fit 16" buffers, paint light grey, no vacuum cylinder or pipe.

Fitted:   Fit 18" buffers, paint bauxite, Fit vacuum cylinder & vacuum pipe. Plasticard or thin brass strip tie bar beween the W irons. If you're sticking with tension lock couplings you can miss out the fitting vac pipe.

 

Most important thing is to enjoy building it then running it. 

 

P

Realising he's probably trying to teach his granny to suck eggs.

 

Oh and the Unusual Disclaimer: I know Mr Franks of LMS models quite well & think the sun shines out of his orifice.

 

Edited after getting a bollocking from Mr LMS (See later post)

Edited August 19, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Ray H]

Very many thanks to everyone who has responded. Some very useful information.

 

Alas I appear to have chosen the wrong time for my expedition with the sale/transfer of Parkside to Peco at the beginning of the month with the result that the erstwhile Parkside catalogue appears not to be currently available so I'm currently trawling my way through a number of retailer's websites to see what models exist and, more importantly, who has stocks of those wagons that I think I will be able to use.

[Zero Gravitas]

Very many thanks to everyone who has responded. Some very useful information.

 

Alas I appear to have chosen the wrong time for my expedition with the sale/transfer of Parkside to Peco at the beginning of the month with the result that the erstwhile Parkside catalogue appears not to be currently available so I'm currently trawling my way through a number of retailer's websites to see what models exist and, more importantly, who has stocks of those wagons that I think I will be able to use.

To get a quick idea of the Parkside range, just search for "Parkside Dundas" on ebay. Not to necessarily buy, but you will get a good idea of what's available.

[Ray H]

To get a quick idea of the Parkside range, just search for "Parkside Dundas" on ebay. Not to necessarily buy, but you will get a good idea of what's available.

 

Thanks. I've been trying that but have probably confused myself by trying to rule out the silly priced sales. Perhaps I need to concentrate on the models and not the prices initially.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Very many thanks to everyone who has responded. Some very useful information.

 

Alas I appear to have chosen the wrong time for my expedition with the sale/transfer of Parkside to Peco at the beginning of the month with the result that the erstwhile Parkside catalogue appears not to be currently available so I'm currently trawling my way through a number of retailer's websites to see what models exist and, more importantly, who has stocks of those wagons that I think I will be able to use.

 

Try H & A models.

 

Mike.

[PaulCheffus]

Try H & A models.

 

Mike.

Hi

 

I'd never heard of them until recently when I was looking for some Parkside chassis kits. Excellent service (no connection etc).

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[davefrk]

If you are just getting back into kit building a few B003 16" and B004 18" wouldn't come in wrong.

You can get bogged down sometimes if trying to get every detail right for your chosen period of modelling.

 

Taking your Ratio 591 as an example if you take a look through Paul Bartletts photos at:

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srvan

and you will see there is a multitude of variations.

Basic rule of thumb is:

Unfitted: Fit 16" buffers, paint light grey, no vacuum cylinder or pipe.

Fitted:   Fit 18" buffers, paint bauxite, Fit vacuum cylinder & vacuum pipe. Plasticard or thin brass strip tie bar beween the W irons. If you're sticking with tension lock couplings you can miss out the fitting vac pipe.

 

Most important thing is to enjoy building it then running it.

 

P

Realising he's probably trying to teach his granny to suck eggs.

 

Oh and the Unusual Disclaimer: I know Mr Franks of LMS models quite well & think the sun shines out of his orifice.

 

Have you been on the medication again Paul? I assume you're trying to say 1'6'' buffers and 1'81/2'' buffers not 16'' and 18''  In any case there is a common misconception about BR designed wagons, at first the fitted ones had the same 1'6'' buffers as the unfitted ones but had instanta couplings (a coupling capable of being shortened to take up the slack). This applies to the standard vans, opens, fitted minerals, hoppers etc. Only a few BR fitted designs had longer buffers when new and these usually had screw couplings. Later on some wagons received longer buffers at overhaul, these could be Dowty or OLEO and most were fitted with screw couplings. Later built standard wagons had these buffers when built but these were few compared to the number of earlier designs.

 

Hope that helps Aardvark.

 

Dave Franks.

[Ray H]

Try H & A models.

 

Mike.

 

Many thanks for that. They're at an exhibition in Northampton today so I might pop along there this afternoon.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Many thanks for that. They're at an exhibition in Northampton today so I might pop along there this afternoon.

 

Tell them I sent you, I need my commission!!!

 

MIke.

[Porcy Mane]

Have you been on the medication again Paul? 

 

You bet I have...

 

 

I assume you're trying to say 1'6'' buffers and 1'81/2'' buffers not 16'' and 18'' 

 

Looks like everyone else knew what I was on about. Thanks anyway. The dicky key on my keyboard is now fixed. Look: ' ' '  ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' .  

 

at first the fitted ones had the same 1'6'' buffers as the unfitted ones but had instanta couplings

 

Awww, haway Dave.

 

I did say, "as a general rule o thumb". There's not many folk as obsessive about buffers, coupling & coupling hooks as me and thee. A book* could be written about the myriad buffer/coupling hook combinations fitted to wagons during BR days.

 

* I forgot. BR did write a book about it.

After ruling that all fitted freight should have their "screw couplings done up tight until the well greased buffer heads just compressed". Someone realised there was different lengths of screw coupling, not all fitted wagons were fitted with screws, Instanters (with an r)  had varying dimensions and that someone had mentioned that shunters had reported it was impossible to couple certain wagons together when fitted with specific combinations of coupling and buffer even with the buffing gear fully compressed.

So we were left with a multitude of different lengths of buffers, couplings, coupling hooks, drawbar spacers and adapters.

 

So having said that let's have a look at some humble 16 tonners in 1965.

 

 

and a page from that book.

 

 

Note the 1' 10" buffer

 

We are pretty fortunate in having LMS so we can model the vast majority of buffers but for what it's worth I reckon 95% of modellers couldn't give a buffer about what fits between the buffers.

 

Pedantic P

(who is currently trying to knock up a GWR welded type instantaer out of  0.4 mm jewellers wire.

 

Oh and, Instanter, instanter, INSTANTER! We'll have none of that GWR terminology round these parts.

[Ray H]

I managed to get choose four kits out of their selection. I shall experiment with them during the week and see what I can come up with.

 

They aim to try and carry the full range so I'll explore some more and see what else I want to add to my collection.

 

I'll do an order for buffers from LMS tomorrow as well.

 

Thanks again for the all the information.