Peterborough North

[micklner]

I understand Tony Wright from BRM is ill at the moment, (on Model Railway Express, get well soon Tony )he would love to be taking photos as well. I look forward to any issue with pictures .Looks excellent.

[great northern]

I understand Tony Wright from BRM is ill at the moment (on Model Railway Express, get well soon Tony ) would love to be taking photos as well. I look forward to any issue with pictures .Looks excellent.

 

Hi Mick, and yes I wish my very dear friend Tony was fit enough to be taking photos too. Even the dreaded stabbing finger, followed by "Ah!!!" and the disclosure of some error on my part would be music to my ears. I'm afraid that it looks like being a fairly slow process of recovery though, so I may have to wait a while yet. He'll be back though, I'm sure of that.

[Chris Nevard]

A cracking layout! Good duck egg blue walls (every railway room should have pale blue walls) simplify photography of which there will be a few revisits to record progress from time to time. The signals are wonderful - I spent several hours in fear and dread of knocking one flying, but luckily didn't (or if I did Gilbert was too gentlemanly to say anything!). I also know just a little more about the ER/LNER and can now tell the difference between an A4 and a K2 - just.

Pix coming soon to the popular press!

[Guest jonte]

What a cracking this layout is!!!

 

Thoroughly deserving of media attention.

 

Jonte

[great northern]

A cracking layout! Good duck egg blue walls (every railway room should have pale blue walls) simplify photography of which there will be a few revisits to record progress from time to time. The signals are wonderful - I spent several hours in fear and dread of knocking one flying, but luckily didn't (or if I did Gilbert was too gentlemanly to say anything!). I also know just a little more about the ER/LNER and can now tell the difference between an A4 and a K2 - just.

Pix coming soon to the popular press!

 

All signals intact Chris, and considering you had to squeeze yourself and camera into a space just a foot wide with a radiator sticking into delicate portions of your anatomy I'm amazed that you also managed to keep contorting yourself still more to avoid clouting things. And I'm also impressed that you remembered about the K2! The A4 was a bit easier though.

[LNERGE]

Thing's are looking good. Truly superb in fact. I did dabble in working ground signals at one time but i think to be honest my paws really are not up to the job..

 

Here's another little embellishment that would have been found at Peterborough North though i can't tell which of the three signals that had this arm arrangement it repeated..

[great northern]

After what seems to be a very long time, I can at last do a bit of modelling. I'm a great believer in detail as an enhancement of the credibility of a layout, so long as it isn't carried too far. I won't spend my time creating something which is then going to be hidden anyway. The fact that"I know its there" isn't sufficient incentive for me. The good thing about a prototype is that you model as far as possible what was there. The not so good thing I'm discovering is the difficulty of finding what actually was there. Most photos were taken from a very limited number of viewpoints, the limitation usually no doubt being what the photographer could get away with without being ejected for trespassing. So there will be elements of this which I will have to guess at or make up, as I never will get to see what the real thing looked like in those areas.

 

Fortunately though there are some very useful images. Here's one I've fancied having a go at for ages. Photo is copyright of Andrew C Ingram, and reproduced with his kind, but limited permission. No downloads please.

These GN water cranes were at the North end of platforms 3 and 6. Lots of nice detail.

Including this telephone and warning sign on the one at the end of platform 3. Not a great quality reproduction, but you can see the essentials. A Mikes Models water crane, a lamp cobbled together from a cut about Ratio telegraph pole and a lamp the source of which I can't now remember, together with a box for the telephone made from plasticard has got me this far. Please note that this is all only in temporary position, and secured (not very well) by blu tack. At least it gives me an idea of how close I've got to the real thing, and whether I need to start again.

I did this one with forced flash, as otherwise it's a bit dark, being back lit. The next one is with natural light.

When I previewed this on the camera it looked in focus Never mind, it gives the general idea. The telephone box has managed to slip sideways, but I'll make sure it's straight when it finally goes in place. I managed to print off my PC a very small "Telephone" sign. I really should also do the same with the trespass sign above, which even in 1958 proudly announced "GNR". I doubt though whether I can produce anything anywhere near the standard of the Roger Smith one which is in place at present. Anyway, the whole thing isn't right if you look closely at the original photos. Both the crane and the fire devil are different to the kit ones I've used, and there's plenty more wrong if you care to look. For me though, it's all about compromise as usual. I assess what I've done as "not too bad". When I have fine tuned it and added some missing bits I may be satisfied with it, though I suspect I could make a better job of the telehone box if I tried again. We shall see.

Yesterday a knock at the door produced a pleasant surprise.

This is the limited edition Sentinel commissioned by Model Rail.

Very nice it looks too. Not had a chance to run it yet, as I need to get a very small plug and play decoder for it. This is not just an impulse purchase folks. Would I do such a thing? No, changed to Departmental No 8, it will be where it belonged, as the District Engineer's shunter. I've got a photo somewhere, which I'll attach when I can find it. And if anybody can tell me who produces that swan neck lamp, I shall be most grateful.

[great northern]

Found the photo. Here's the Sentinel sitting outside one of the DE's sidings. The model is in the right place, but it will be a while yet before the building behind it arrives in model form.

 

Photo is again copyright of Andrew Ingram and reproduced with permission.

[great northern]

Finally for now, if you look at post 342 on page 14 you will see my attempts at numbering the fiddle yard roads.I've now replaced the side I made a complete mess of. And at the third attempt, I though it through, and did it properly, including ruling feint lines to get everything level, and putting them on a backing sheet. Ten minutes thought, and an extra few minutes preparation would have saved a lot of time and effort.

I ran out of 1's though when just one more was needed. Twas ever thus. Which do you think looks best of the three? And don't say the first one please.

[S.A.C Martin]

I prefer the first one...

 

Just kidding! I think it looks fine now. 18 lines, what I'd give for that sort of storage space here! Looks terrific chap.

[davidw]

Here's a bit of idle messing about, but quite interesting. Three V2's:-

 

 

 

 

One is standard Bachmann renumbered and weathered. Another is also Bachmann but with a new chimney and dome,a fixed Cartazzi truck and a Rathbone weathering job. The third is scratchbuilt and again Ian Rathbone did the painting. What do you reckon? Obviously the scratchbuilt one is better, but how much better than the "tweaked" Bachmann one? And what do you think is the biggest let down of the standard Bachmann product? I'll be interested to see if you agree with me.

 

While I had the camera on the tripod, and knowing some of you like photos of ECML power, here's a line up in the fiddle yard. There are no lamps on the locos yet, for which I apologise. I know where they are, I put them somewhere safe......

 

 

Re-read the thread Gilbert.

How about comparing the Hornby A4 with the GA version....?

[jwealleans]

Someone posted a GA A4 on the LNER forum and there were quite a few livery errors pointed out.

[great northern]

Work this weekend was mainly on wiring, which is now very nearly complete, but we did also install the first part of the baseboard extension to accomodate the Great Northern hotel.This is necessary to make sure that the station forecourt is of a realistic width. Here are a couple of shots to show where things stand so far.

 

The sun hasn't hepled when taking these, but they give the general idea and positioning. The two cars in the pool of sunlight mark approximately where the station buildings will end. As the forecourt was a dead end back then, it is essential that there is enough room for vehicles to turn round. The extension will continue on towards Crescent Bridge, but I'm holding back on that until I see the buildings in place. It won't be possible to have everything placed exactly as on the prototype, so I shall have to try to capture the essence of it.

Here too are a few more photos, this time featuring the less glamorous types of motive power which will be seen.

 

At platform 2 is a Boston K2, which has arrived from the East Lincs line, and will shortly back its stock into one of the North end carriage sidings. In number 1 bay is a tired looking D16 Claud Hamilton waiting departure with a March local. Typical isn't it, only after I took this did I notice the tender wasn't properly on the track.

This is taken from the other side of Crescent Bridge. I've noticed the D16 tender by this time, and the shot also shows a C12 station pilot in what will be a dock road with some parcels stock.

And here is a closer view.Please remember this is a work in progress, so that water crane will get a hose and other detail in due course.

Next is a closer view of the D16 and C12. Both are very near the end of their working lives, and pretty run down both externally and no doubt internally too.

The K2 in all its glory. John Houlden built this from the London Road models kit. It's turned out very well, but John says it wasn't an easy build.

Here's the D16 again, but from a different angle. This one has had the decorative valancing removed, unlike the one featured in earlier photos. Both were shedded at Peterborough Spital Bridge in 1958/9, and therefore mainly worked over the old LMS lines to Rugby Northampton and Leicester. On this layout they will be seen mostly on Leicester duties, but March had some as well, so they will work the occasional slow train from North to March too.

Not an easy shot this, as it was very much back lit, but it shows the C12 from the other side. The grey card shows approximately where the back end of the bay will be. It was triangular in shape, and very wide by the time it got to Crescent Bridge. Photos show lots of vehicles parked on it, presumably getting access from the other side of the bridge. That's all for now folks.

[mobi323]

Great modeling and great photography.

[great northern]

Re-read the thread Gilbert.

How about comparing the Hornby A4 with the GA version....?

 

Hi David,

 

Funnily enough, I've just reviewed the latest Hornby sound A4 for BRM, and in the course of that I have made some comparisons with my Golden Age one. In general terms though I think the comparison is a bit unfair. After all one is effectively hand built while the other is mass produced. There's a noticeable difference, but so there should be given the price difference. Is the Golden Age one five times better though? Probably not. It is a lovely model though, and oozes quality. As Jonathan says though even the time and effort that goes into the Golden Age one, and I know something about the amount of research that has been done, can't guarantee 100% accuracy. But have you ever seen a 100% accurate 00 gauge model loco? My view is that they are both excellent value for what they are.

[davidw]

Hi David,

 

Funnily enough, I've just reviewed the latest Hornby sound A4 for BRM, and in the course of that I have made some comparisons with my Golden Age one. In general terms though I think the comparison is a bit unfair. After all one is effectively hand built while the other is mass produced. There's a noticeable difference, but so there should be given the price difference. Is the Golden Age one five times better though? Probably not. It is a lovely model though, and oozes quality. As Jonathan says though even the time and effort that goes into the Golden Age one, and I know something about the amount of research that has been done, can't guarantee 100% accuracy. But have you ever seen a 100% accurate 00 gauge model loco? My view is that they are both excellent value for what they are.

 

Interesting thoughts - I saw the video of Sparrow Hawk on the BRM site - only now I realise it was on Peterborough North... It's looking really good by the way!

[great northern]

Its some time since I reported on progress, but does that mean I have been idle? Who, me? Well, no actually I have been getting on with it, and I'll post some more pics later to show what's been done. First though, and particularly for David W who asked weeks ago, here are some photos of the complete Elizabethan rake, which has been waiting for me to get round to fitting all the Kadees, and putting on destination boards for ages.

I've no idea how to do these shots where you merge several photos into one, so here are a series taken along the train.

I've also nearly got all my locos down from the loft, and at the bottom of one box I found this.

This dates back to one of my earlier ideas, which moved the layout to the London suburban area. it started off as an elderly Hornby loco, but Ken Gibbons detailed it using A1 parts, and then did a cut and shut job on a Bachmann Class 20 chassis. The result is that it runs a lot better than the real thing did when first delivered. (Allegedly of course). Doesn't fit in at Peterborough though, unless I model 10 of them. Even then they would need to be at New England shed, and hidden under tarpaulins. That's where a desperate management put them when it became clear that they were effectively good for nothing. If anybody wants one, please PM me.

The light was good yesterday, so I posed one or two more of my collection by the station loco facilities. First up is this B2, a Cambridge engine as they all were towards the end. Mike Russell built this from his own kit.

The B12 is from the PDK kit, and is one of my cherished Tony Wright builds, with a Rathbone paint job.

And another one of Framlingham without so much clutter obscuring it.

Finally for now,yesterday morning the postman delivered this beauty. It's to go in my Midland set, which came through North station on Peterborough East to Leicester trains. Built by Ian Willets from the Comet kit basic parts, but largely from scratch, and painted by Dave Studley. I asked for a faded finish, which is how blood and custard looked most of the time, and Dave did this. I've said it before, but it bears repeating - what superb craftsmen we have in the hobby. Now I'll do a bit more work, and post some more later.

[micklner]

Superb Locos and new coach

[S.A.C Martin]

Absolutely love that B12. Does show up how much poorer the Hornby B12 is in comparison.

[davidw]

Its some time since I reported on progress, but does that mean I have been idle? Who, me? Well, no actually I have been getting on with it, and I'll post some more pics later to show what's been done. First though, and particularly for David W who asked weeks ago, here are some photos of the complete Elizabethan rake, which has been waiting for me to get round to fitting all the Kadees, and putting on destination boards for ages.

I've no idea how to do these shots where you merge several photos into one, so here are a series taken along the train.

I've also nearly got all my locos down from the loft, and at the bottom of one box I found this.

This dates back to one of my earlier ideas, which moved the layout to the London suburban area. it started off as an elderly Hornby loco, but Ken Gibbons detailed it using A1 parts, and then did a cut and shut job on a Bachmann Class 20 chassis. The result is that it runs a lot better than the real thing did when first delivered. (Allegedly of course). Doesn't fit in at Peterborough though, unless I model 10 of them. Even then they would need to be at New England shed, and hidden under tarpaulins. That's where a desperate management put them when it became clear that they were effectively good for nothing. If anybody wants one, please PM me.

The light was good yesterday, so I posed one or two more of my collection by the station loco facilities. First up is this B2, a Cambridge engine as they all were towards the end. Mike Russell built this from his own kit.

The B12 is from the PDK kit, and is one of my cherished Tony Wright builds, with a Rathbone paint job.

And another one of Framlingham without so much clutter obscuring it.

Finally for now,yesterday morning the postman delivered this beauty. It's to go in my Midland set, which came through North station on Peterborough East to Leicester trains. Built by Ian Willets from the Comet kit basic parts, but largely from scratch, and painted by Dave Studley. I asked for a faded finish, which is how blood and custard looked most of the time, and Dave did this. I've said it before, but it bears repeating - what superb craftsmen we have in the hobby. Now I'll do a bit more work, and post some more later.

 

Thanks for the Photo's of 'the Lizzie'. I know it's a GA version at the front in the photo's will the Hornby ones shift it?

[Guest Tom F]

Loving it Gilbert...re kindling my Eastern love

 

In all seriousness it seems to be coming together all at once! I love how the platforms are coming on

 

Tom

[roger440]

Can i ask how/where the trains will disappear "off scene"?

 

As i recall the real location is pretty open in both directions, so no obvious scenic breaks. it a conundrum i have with one of my ideas/locations, where there are not even any over bridges.

[great northern]

Can i ask how/where the trains will disappear "off scene"?

 

As i recall the real location is pretty open in both directions, so no obvious scenic breaks. it a conundrum i have with one of my ideas/locations, where there are not even any over bridges.

 

The real world ends at Crescent Bridge to the South, and Spital Bridge to the North. I'm as yet undecided as to whether to put sky backscenes directly behind each of the bridges. Best to wait until things are more nearly complete I think, then I'll see how it looks, and seek out a few opinions.

[great northern]

Thanks for the Photo's of 'the Lizzie'. I know it's a GA version at the front in the photo's will the Hornby ones shift it?

 

Slight problem David. Even the GA loco can't handle the weight of this at the moment. I will discuss the situation with the builder!

[great northern]

Last bit of wiring was done on Sunday, save for signalling when we get round to that(and decide how we're going to do it). So we are nearly operationally complete, which means I need finally to figure out exactly how I am going to operate it.Trial and error seem to be the best way of going about it, so that's what I'm doing.

 

The concept is that I shall run a sequence of trains based on the 1958 WTT's. Many of the named trains have been modelled, but a lot of the more mundane services will be represented by just one or two trains. There will for example be just one Up and one Down Leeds express, and the same for Newcastle. The stopping and terminating trains each have their own dedicated rake. Each train lives in a designated fiddle yard road. Most are through roads, but the locals live in dead end roads. Some roads will accomaodate two trains, and nearly every road in the fiddle yard can be accessed from all directions. That was particularly important for me, as I want things to run properly, by which I mean that a train that goes South should next be seen going North, and the same applies to locos, with the added ingredient that they should not be seen again till they have had time to reach their destination, turn, be serviced, and get back to Peterborough again. I suppose I could just about run this layout with about ten Pacifics, but for me the illusion of reality would quickly be shattered by seeing the same A4 appear every few minutes. That means I need a lot of locos, which is very convenient for a locoholic like me, and a lot of places to store them.

 

For that reason, a great deal of thought has gone into the design of the fiddle yard, and some compromise has had to be made. I wanted to run 10 coach trains, and even then most would have not been long enough prototypically, but in most of the roads that will take two trains that would have meant that the trains would have to have been stored without locos. That in turn would have meant that there would have been a great deal of lifting locos on and off the layout, which I wanted to minimise, both to save complaints from my back and to prevent possible accidents. So, several trains now have nine coaches rather than ten.

 

I have been able to incorporate quite a lot of dead end roads that can be used for storing locos above board, but other storage below the boards will still be necessary. At this stage a few photos will I think save a lot of words.

 

First few are of the South end of the yard, then one of the storage tray above the tracks, which I will return to later, then some of the North end, and finally a locoshed. I know it doesn't look like one, but that is what it is.

 

One example should show how it is supposed to work, If you look at Road 20, you will see four locos lined up. They are for the next four Up Leeds trains, and when their turn comes they will be reversed out onto the Up through line, and then moved onto their train, which will be in road 9 North. When the train has completed its journey the loco will move onto a Peco loco lift, and be removed. It will then either go into the appropriate place on a Down storage road to await its next duty, or if it has no return duty that day, or there is no room on the storage road where it should go, it will be placed "on shed". That will be either in the tray above the fiddle yard, or in one of the areas you can see an example of in the last photo. I bought a couple of these cheap and easy to assemble units from Ikea, and I have another purpose built one in the loft, which we have to work out a way to get down safely, as it is very heavy. To give an example, Kings Cross Top shed has diagrams for 23 locos in a day's work, so one of these units will be designated 34A Kings Cross. The unit will be subdivided to give room for 23 locos, each of which will have a numbered bay. So, if I need the loco for the Down Flying Scotsman, KX duty 9, I just go to that bay, lift it out on a loco lift, place it on the layout, and back it onto its train. Clever, huh? Some sheds have only a few duties, so they will share storage units, but still be easily identifiable.

 

Time to show my final bit of the cunning plan.

 

I acquired a laptop a while ago for work use, but this was always going to be its ultimate destination. I have set up a Powerpoint programme which sets out every movement in the day's sequence. There are 366 movements, so I calculate that if I run two hour operating sessions it will take 6 sessions to run the lot. I think it is fairly self explanatory, though I'm still fine tuning it. Basically it should tell the operator exactly what to do, including the butons to press to set up the train's route. My NCE system refers to these as Macros. Each one will operate up to 10 accessories. So far I have programmed 116 of them, but no worries there, as the maximum is 250. Some movements need three Macros, so it's a long job progamming all of this, and about 20 at a time is as much as I can take. Only 250 to go. Once I've done all that, I just have to test run the whole thing, then i'll find out if it actually works........... This is a very abbreviated account of the whole thing, so please just ask if you would like me to expalin it further.